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Please Read ... This Needs to be Said

John Pierce

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longwatch wrote:
Sorry for your loss and thanks for saying what needed to be said.
Thank you all for your kind words!! This wasn't the way I envisioned bringing in the new year, but we do not get to choose the moments of loss and tragedy in our lives.

I couldn't ask for a better group of friends!!

And thanks for understanding where I was coming from with the post itself. We have got to stay on message here. Our success as a political force depends upon it!

Thank you all again!


John
 

deepdiver

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I offer my condolensces as well. My little brother passed away 3 years ago so I well undertsand the grief and loss.

And thank you for this forum and your reminder of it's purpose.
 

sv_libertarian

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My deepest sympathies as well. I hope you are doing well. You are right about LEO's I do not think we need to bash them as a species. I'm not above singling a bad individual out, but I find 99.9% of LEO's are good people, just misinformed. My policy is to end a stop quickly and painlessly and then raise heck with their superiors. It's a lot easier to file a complaint than argue with someone when you can't win.
 

parashoot man

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I to am sorry to hear of your loss.

Your words were inspirationally true!

A great friend and a 16 year veteran of the police force,gave his life to save mine.

Respect given is respect received!
 

irfner

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I posted this on the Washington forum but I believe it fits here as well.

My image of LEO is based on the experiences I have and those reported here. If LEOs want to have a non confrontational dialogue then be non confrontational. By that I mean the next time you the LEO see someone open carrying instead of threatening and trying to intimidate them engage in reasonable conversation. You know the stuff, how are you, what kind of gun, how long have you been OCing, nice to meat you etc. Ask the citizen if he/she is a member of OCDO and if so then ask them to report a positive encounter. Some of which have been discussed here.

I think we have some great LEO supporters but when we hear time and again of bad encounters, threats andfraudulent reports how can we not discuss protecting ourselves. And that is protection against whom? LE. I reported about a LEO stating that if he saw anyone OCing he would make an arrest no matter how creative he had to be to do it. How trusting of LE do you suppose statements like that make me feel? I do not recall anyone from OCdO accosting a LEO on the street and threatening them with arrest or fines etc. But there are several stories of LE accosting law abiding citizens OCing and making such threats. So who is it that is creating the atmosphere of fear, of them against us? I think it is LE and as LEbecomes better trained and improves that whole idea of us against them will subside. But it is up to LE. Who knows the time could come when we actually look foreword to an LE encounter. But I am not going to hold my breath.
 

AbNo

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irfner wrote:
I reported about a LEO stating that if he saw anyone OCing he would make an arrest no matter how creative he had to be to do it. How trusting of LE do you suppose statements like that make me feel?

I've had two positive encouters myself. How trusting of LEOs should I be, Irfner? Or are you just trying to start a flame war in a thread that really doesn't need to contain one? :X
 

DreQo

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AbNo wrote:
irfner wrote:
I reported about a LEO stating that if he saw anyone OCing he would make an arrest no matter how creative he had to be to do it. How trusting of LE do you suppose statements like that make me feel?

I've had two positive encouters myself. How trusting of LEOs should I be, Irfner? Or are you just trying to start a flame war in a thread that really doesn't need to contain one? :X

In Irfner's defense, I think he made his point rather well. He believes that the negative energy directed towards law enforcement in general has spawnedfrom the very real negative actions and words of law enforcement officers in certain situations. I completely agree with this fact.

What we need to do is stand fast, and avoid the temptation to riticule the many because of the few. We don't want to be judged differently by people (especially LEOs) just because we carry a sidearm. This is hard, sometimes, because so many people only ever see and hear about the bad guys with guns.

If we want people to giveeach one of usthe benefit of the doubt, and judge us not by other people's actions but by our own, then we must do the same for them. Yep, there are bad LEO's out there. There are also bad gun owners out there. Don't judge them by their badge, and hopefully they wont judge us by our gun.
 

murphyslaw

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I have to say I cant agree more. LEO's are out there doing a tough job and cant know ALL the laws.

I am working on a LEO career and there is way more laws on the books then anyone can remember, so you have to focus on a core group. for some that does not include firearm laws. for me it does and all we can do is help educate the public and LEO's alike.
 

Superlite27

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My condolences to you jpierce.

I have had both good and bad experiences with LEO's. With any member of a group, there is a tendency to stereotype one individual's actions and broadcast that over the entire group. If we do that to all LEO's, there is also the tendency for the LEO's to do that to us.

I wonder if anyone has realized the obvious? If there is a LEO participating in this forum, chances are he or she IS PROBABLY ON OUR SIDE or else they wouldn't be here. Becoming argumentative and stereotyping them into the "EVIL NAZI PIG" category can only alienate those who are on our side and give them the means to categorize us into the "uneducated lunatic gun owner" category.

I applaud the LEO's who do give cops a good name and perform their jobs to the betterment of society. I choose to make an INTELLIGENT DECISION and not lump all LEO's into one category based on the actions of one idiot, just as I wouldwith anyone else.
 

TheApostle

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Those who systematically lump any group of people without judgment of individual merit practice bigotry. Bigotry and the U.S. Constitution can't ride in the same car together.

Peace and Happy New Year's to all.
 

dng

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My sympathies and prayers are with you and your family, jpierce. As for the OP, well said, +1
 

irfner

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If anyone took my comment as trying to start a flame war please don't. This a thread that started with some heart felt comments. And jpierceand his family have my heart felt condolences and sympathy for their loss.

But I do think my comments are true and stand on their own merit. I would be willing to take that discussion to another thread if someone wants to or let it drop here if that is preferred. John I am sorry if I hijacked this thread in any way.
 

imperialism2024

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I'll admit that I've been an LEO-basher. Fortunately I've come to realize that I don't like the system, not the LEOs themselves, and I can't fault the LEOs that follow the system. Without going into an off-topic rant, I can understand the hostility toward LEOs, but that hostility is wrongfully directed at them. LEOs don't give themselves a priviledged status.

However, John, I am becoming increasingly concerned that this board is becoming a model to show off to support our cause, rather than a place to discuss OC and related topics. Don't get me wrong, I strongly support our cause for advancing firearm ownership and carry, but the two purposes of the board may be starting to conflict. I believe this has been discussed a bit in the "Moderation" thread. Overall, though, I agree with what you've said about LEO-bashing, but for the reason that it doesn't benefit the membership (and I'd go so far as to say that it harms the membership on the whole), rather than for the reason that it doesn't make us look good to outsiders.

I've tried to express that as elegantly as I could... and on a concluding note, please accept my sympathies as well for your loss.
 

Grapeshot

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John,
My sincerest condolences to you. We are all diminished by your brother's passing - "fear not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee." May you always hold him close to you.

Heartfelt thanks for expressing your opinions also, with which I agree, at a very difficult time. Be assured there are those of us that will stand firm with you. Open forum - yes but with the wisdom to conduct ourselves for the common good. Yours is a difficult task and I commend you for your efforts.
 

Capt. Dave

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I just discovered this site while searching for information on open carry in the various states I find myself in or traveling through. It is gratifying to discover fellow travelers with a similar mind-set. But the question a hand regards positive/negative feelings about LEO. So, I throw this out for what it's worth. Most of us--possibly all of us--on this site are generally law abiding patriots. We have extremely limited interaction with LE. About the only time we do encounterLEOs is for something like 65 in a 50 or a rolling stop. These experiences are unpleasant for us as they usually result in deprivation of time and a reduction in our wallet-filler. Sometimes they are made even more unpleasant because they generate points on our DLs and elevation in insurance rates. So, it's natural to harbor a bit of animosity toward LEOs. HOWEVER, they are the thin blue line helping to keep the bad guys in check, our wives and lovers safe, and drunks of our streets. They really are the GOOD GUYS. Rarely, they are called upon to actually risk their lives by interfering in a criminal act. Mostly, they arrive late. And that's why we, my brothers, are also the good guys. Are there some Adam Henry's on this site. Likely yes. Are there some total doo-doo heads on the various LE agencies. Of course! But they, as are we, are mostly pretty good guys who deserve our support. And mostly, if we remain pretty good guys, we will receive their support, too. Respectfully submitted.
 

Grapeshot

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Welcome aboard Capt. Dave - hope you read all of the thread - one of our own tragically just lost his brother.

There a wealth of knowledge and information to be shared on OCDO.

Yata hey
 

Capt. Dave

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Grapeshot, you are absolutely right in mentioning my oversite. I do not yet know jpiercebut I do know that the loss of a brother is so deply emotional as to be physically impacting. My sympathies and earnest hopes for his personal peace are extended without reservation. Those of us of a certain age (Vietnam vet, '68) became all too familiar with this type of tragedy at an all too tender age. Now, we find we are revisiting this well-trodden territory with increasing regularity as we lose a different type of "brother." Even so, when one loses a close family member, the loss surmountsthose that have gone before. I am deeply sorry for his loss.
 

Johnny Law

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Jpierce,

I am very sorry to hear of your loss. I too know that pain, as my own brother passed recently. It is unfortunate that it takes an event of this type to bring a reality check to this board. I am glad however that you are using itas an opportunitytry to keep things in perspective.

I have also attended a line of duty death Police funeral for a friend, and while it was an amazing display of support (literally thousands of cops, firemen, and caring citizens) it is something that I hope to never see again (although I know chances are I will).

Superlite27 wrote:
My condolences to you jpierce.

I have had both good and bad experiences with LEO's. With any member of a group, there is a tendency to stereotype one individual's actions and broadcast that over the entire group. If we do that to all LEO's, there is also the tendency for the LEO's to do that to us.

I wonder if anyone has realized the obvious? If there is a LEO participating in this forum, chances are he or she IS PROBABLY ON OUR SIDE or else they wouldn't be here. Becoming argumentative and stereotyping them into the "EVIL NAZI PIG" category can only alienate those who are on our side and give them the means to categorize us into the "uneducated lunatic gun owner" category.

I applaud the LEO's who do give cops a good name and perform their jobs to the betterment of society. I choose to make an INTELLIGENT DECISION and not lump all LEO's into one category based on the actions of one idiot, just as I wouldwith anyone else.
Superlite,

You have managed to sum up what I have been trying to convey to many here. My hope is that others will at least give the benefit of the doubt. I have been attacked personally numerous times, although no one here can say that they have ever met me on duty or off, and formed an opinion from it. I can tell you that there is a very good chance that several here may (in the future), or may havepreviously spoken to me on duty.

I always treat others with respect, andhope that they would do the same for me. One's attitudeplays a big part in their fate. Thanks for your words of wisdom.
 
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