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Thread: Where can I CC that I cannot OC?

  1. #1
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    I am a Michigan resident, and have been carrying concealed with a CPL for quite a few months now. I recently (i.e., yesterday) discovered the whole concept of "open carry." I am astonished at myself for never knowing this was legal, but I am assuming a very large majority of the general public (and probablypolice officers)have no idea that we can open carry. Anyways, I have read many of your threads, and researched online but still have a question about the difference in legality of carrying in certain places (CCvsOC)

    So my question is, are there places I can CC but cannot OC, or vice versa?

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    Welcome to the site. I'm new as well, discovered this place in the middle of the month. I haven't OCed yet (too nervous right now), but hope to start soon, after I learn as much as possible. As far as I know you can't be within a certain distance of a school, and can't carry into a federal building like a post office. I've read on here some carrying in a bank, but Ican't say anything more than that. Sorry I cannot be more help, I'd like to know of more places that prohibits OC and CC so when I do start I know to stay away from there.

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    This is interesting. I would think that there really aren't any places, aside from states that ban OC completely (i.e. Texas, Florida, etc), where CC would be legal and OC would not be legal.

    On the other hand, one can "get away with" carrying concealed in many more places in general than OCing. To clarify, if you are CCing in an anti-gun establishment, pretty much the only way to tell you are doing so is if you're printing or if you have to use your gun in self-defense. On the other hand, you are much more likely to get kicked out for carrying if you are OCing, as it's fairly obvious you're carrying.

    On yet another hand, one can carry concealed when it is illegal to do so with very little chance of getting caught. On the record, I don't advocate illegally carrying a firearm. But if one happens to be OCing when carrying a firearm is illegal, I doubt one will avoid persecution/prosecution. If CCing... as they say, concealed is concealed.

    But if the situation is different in any state in regards to where CC is legal but OC is not, someone please speak up.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    In Virginia, state parks and in a car on school property.

    In Pa the city of a first class restriction on unlicensed OC also comes close.

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    Whoops, I entirely missed the second half of the question...

    As far as places where one can OC but not CC, I'd say that most instances involve licensing. In PA, without a LTCF, I can OC on foot outside of Philadelphia, but I can CC nowhere (except on my property). Many other states allow unlicensed OC as well, but require a license to CC.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    That is absolutely a state/local question given the many varied laws nationally about carrying firearms. For example, in Missouri you can CC anywhere except for a list of specific places in the statute or where posted. and CC laws are preempted. However, there is no preemption as to OC so every community can make their own law banning or regulating OC and they certainly do. It takes careful study to OC in Missouri and you must know where you are because if you cross a city or county line and don't realize it you may end up in jail. In Kentucky, you can OC or CC just about any damn place you want with a short list of exceptions, primarily dealing with school properties. However, KY law is very specific about where your gun can be in a vehicle if you do not have a concealed carry permit. In Virginia you cannot CC into a restaraunt that serves alcohol for on premises consumption but OC at such a restaraunt is perfectly legal.

    So yes, nationwide there are places you can CC and not OC and vice versa. If you go to the OpenCarry.org home page and click through the states on the map, there is info about open carry, and www.handgunlaw.us has information on nationwide concealed carry lawssd.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    As deepdiver said, this is largely a state level question.

    Here is Michigan's state level "board": http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/

    Though the admins frown on double postings, you are new here and they would probably understand it if you posteda similar question there.

    FYI - in Ohio, government owned buildings are off-limits to CC, but not by law to OC!

    I suggest that you do not try it though, because this quirk came to be because the applicable signage designated by the legislature forsuch buildingsessentially says "No carry of any kind", but the underlying law only states that CC is prohibited.

    Again, I don't suggest you risk a felony conviction on the straightforward reading of black letter law. Courts have been known to ignore such things, you know?


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    If they can ignore the Constitution, they can twist anything. None of this could be considered an infringement on our right to bear arms, right? Ace

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    Woops... see below. I'll get the hang of this sooner or later

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    Thanks for all of your input. I have moved (i.e., reposted):?this to the State>Michigan section, since that is where it belongs. But, I will provide you with the law that caused me all the confusion. If you would like to follow up on this, feel free to do so in the Michigan section.

    750.234d:

    Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    Make sense to you? Me either...

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    kmcdowel wrote:
    Thanks for all of your input. I have moved (i.e., reposted):?this to the State>Michigan section, since that is where it belongs. But, I will provide you with the law that caused me all the confusion. If you would like to follow up on this, feel free to do so in the Michigan section.

    750.234d:

    Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    Make sense to you? Me either...
    Ah, it sounds like a licensing issue. IANAL, but I read it as saying that you need a CHP/CWP/CCW/LTCF in order to OC or CC in that list of places, but everywhere else you can OC without a license.

  13. #13
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    As a CPL holder, I can OC in gun free zones (maybe). Here is the AG opinion on the issue:

    "A uniformed reserve police officer acting as an unpaid volunteer for a local police agency may carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; and if the officer is either a fully authorized "peace officer" or, alternatively, possesses a valid concealed pistol license issued under the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, he or she may also carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Michigan Penal Code.

    [size=http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/da...0s/op10188.htm]



  14. #14
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    kmcdowel wrote:
    As a CPL holder, I can OC in gun free zones. Here is the AG opinion on the issue:

    "A uniformed reserve police officer acting as an unpaid volunteer for a local police agency may carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; and if the officer is either a fully authorized "peace officer" or, alternatively, possesses a valid concealed pistol license issued under the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, he or she may also carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Michigan Penal Code.

    [size=http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/da...0s/op10188.htm]

    [size=]

    [size=So, there you have it. I, as a CPL holder, can carry openly in gun-free zones]

    [size=:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate]
    Of course he is refering to an LEO and not to the general public who may have a CPL. ("...and if theOFFICER possesses...".) But nice try!
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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