Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: Something we should all read...

  1. #1
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    I'm sure most have seen this, but I feel it is right on the money...
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum3/7073-1.html

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    I'm sure most have seen this, but I feel it is right on the money...
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum3/7073-1.html
    It is absolutely right on the money.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Arlington, Washington, USA
    Posts
    374

    Post imported post

    I do think people have been a bit biting when discussing LEO encounters. It is a good reminder that we and them are both on the same side. We love our country and should strive to make it better for our next generation. I haven't OC'd yet, and so my encounters with the police have been for speeding. But i have found every one of them professional and caring.



  4. #4
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    340

    Post imported post

    http://www.spokesmanreview.com/break...y.asp?ID=12907

    This is a perfect example that typifies MOST (not all, but most) LEO's attitudes today - an "us against them" attitude and/or a badge-heavy "I'm macho," complex. Whatever happened to "Andy Griffiths Show" type of LEO?
    While I am not anti-law enforcement whatsoever, I am generally now finding that by far the vast majority of LE officers today are nothing more than petty tyrants, even abusing what lawful athority they have, and overstepping thier bounds on a daily basis.

    I agree we shouldn't be anti-law enforcement... LE is a necessary and good function of society. But when cops are corrupt (not just misinformed, but actually telling you to do things outside the scope of their authority, and flagrantly abusing you for what they know is legal), does that mean we should support them anyway? NO!
    We need to push for accountable, respectable LEOs in our areas. Let's restore honor to the LE profession!
    I know there are good LEOs out there, but I am speaking as a generalization.

  5. #5
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    I am anti ignorance more than anything else. I decided that when a uniform stops me the likelyhood of me winning an argument is nill. I either have a supervisor summoned, or just end it quickly and take the matter up with the people in charge. To that end I am not shy at all about making proper complaints if I have a valid reason. Someone PM'd me and pointed out too, that there is a problem with the officers who suppor the "blue line" through inaction or other means. I am quite willing to be friendly with LEO's but I find that in any kind of organization, it is hard to change instutional biasis and opinions. This has to be done through the top down with finess and a bit of heavy stick swinging at times. Personal behavior has a lot to do with it as well. Okay I'm just rambling now... I try to be easy to get along with too, which comes out in my dealings with cops.

    I am of course pissed off when a LEO detains me for OC. I have had two dealings, with five different officers. In one case the lead officer was polite and uninformed. I have not encountered him again, but given his attitude and demeanor I think the OPD training directive probably has set things right in his head about OC. The second time, the lead officer ignored the training directive and acted as he pleased. I have spoken with the daywatch (now nightwatch Sgt) about OC, and while he is trying to convince me of it's tactical inferiority, has not voiced major concerns about it. Those in charge seem more reasonable than the uniforms on the streets. Perhaps there is a lack of strong leadership, but that is dealt with through channels, not attitude.

    That said, I know have zero trust in Officer O'Neill, and a suspicion of Schaeffer, and am willing to say so publicly. I have confidence in Sgt. Johnson, and Lt. Wilson, and believe that through continued efforts on my part I can achieve my goals with the OPD.

    Right now I have a healthy suspicion of LEO encounters, and have made that known to the OPD. I don't have an anti LEO attitude per se, but do have an anger directed towards them, and this will come out as I continue my complaint process. I do choose specific targets, and will not tar all LEO's with the same brush, until I feel it is earned.

    Not sure what I am saying here, but ultimately it comes down to righteous anger directed at specific targets, not an entire group. Perhaps as I learn more about how the OPD works, and how the officers operate I will have a different attitude. I dunno... I want LEO's to be supportive, of my rights and the law, and I want to be supportive of them,. We are on the cutting edge of a movement, and things will be better for those behind us. Some of us had to change our mindets in regards to OC, and we try to change those of others around us. How much harder it is to change an institutional bias, and deal with cops who are willing to support the "blue line"

    The blue line is problem that has been around for quite sometime, and I'm not sure it is going away anytime soon. Local accountibility and activism can lessen it's effects. Most cops take orders and don't act much on their own, the trick is to change the internal mindset, and culture of LEO's.



  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    SeaTac, Washington, USA
    Posts
    434

    Post imported post

    My image of LEO is based on the experiences I have and those reported here. If LEOs want to have a non confrontational dialogue then be non confrontational. By that I mean the next time you the LEO see someone open carrying instead of threatening and trying to intimidate them engage in reasonable conversation. You know the stuff, how are you, what kind of gun, how long have you been OCing, nice to meat you etc. Ask the citizen if he/she is a member of OCDO and if so then ask them to report a positive encounter. Some of which have been discussed here.

    I think we have some great LEO supporters but when we hear time and again of bad encounters, threats andfraudulent reports how can we not discuss protecting ourselves. And that is protection against whom? LE. I reported about a LEO stating that if he saw anyone OCing he would make an arrest no matter how creative he had to be to do it. How trusting of LE do you suppose statements like that make me feel? I do not recall anyone from OCdO accosting a LEO on the street and threatening them with arrest or fines etc. But there are several stories of LE accosting law abiding citizens OCing and making such threats. So who is it that is creating the atmosphere of fear, of them against us? I think it is LE and as LEbecomes better trained and improves that whole idea of us against them will subside. But it is up to LE. Who knows the time could come when we actually look foreword to an LE encounter. But I am not going to hold my breath.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lynnwood, WA, ,
    Posts
    1,487

    Post imported post

    My bad impression of police officers is based on my personal experiences. I've been falsely arrested, convicted of things that aren't illegal, had a police officer lie in court about me, been threatened when doing nothing wrong, had a few police officers lie about me in their reports, had my weapon illegally confiscated, been condiscended to on a regular basis because I have a CCW, and much more. All of this while I was being non-confrontational, polite and friendly. I was not trying to be on the wrong side of an arguement.

    Now I've met some nice cops too, but if one in three dogs you've ever met tried to maul you, you'd probably not be too inclined the trust dogs in general. The police can have my respect when they earn it and stop trying to prosecute me, when I haven't done anything wrong. I don't break the law. I don't even speed. And I'm very polite when confronted by the police. So if I can have this much trouble with the police, maybe I'm not the one with an attitude problem.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Blaine, WA, ,
    Posts
    1,315

    Post imported post

    Hunter S Thompson had never had so much as a speeding ticket in his life when he bought a BMW motorcycle in the 60s so that he could write a book about the Hell's Angels. According to his account his driving habits didn't change and he just about lost his license due to excessive tickets in the first year of riding.

    Can't convince me that cops don't act on their prejudices.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North of Seattlle, South of Canada, Washington, USA
    Posts
    173

    Post imported post

    It's an excellent post. Cops, good or bad, are alpha or type a types. Nature of the job, training and attitude.

    I would encourage any citizen contacted by cops/LE when OC'ing to remain professional, calm and restrained. Do not fight at the street level because you will not win (whether you are right or wrong). You have avenues and resources post contact to make your point/constitutional concern/right known.

    Those who remain professional when faced with ignorance or arrogance (both ways) always win in the end. Also remember that your actions as an OC citizen speak for the community of OC folks at large. Understand that more than ever, young people coming into the cop world have limited or zero firearms experiences (save movies and video games). Often and in more liberal areas like Seattle, they have been fed a steady diet via family and schools of "guns are evil. Only cops should have them."

    Police Magazine (considered the premier LE trade publication for all cops) posted a poll in which a large majority of cops polled were pro-carry and pro-gun. Obviously there were some who were opposed. Oddly enough, it seemed to come from officers in more liberal and city enclaves. And of course, chiefs and sheriffs from urban areas were often opposed (take the entire IACP as an example).

    Also, perception of guns and OC vary from region and area. Deputies in Whitman County will perceive/understand/support carry and OC better than cops from Seattle or urban regions. Tack on the department culture towards guns (positive or negative and most often coming from the chief/management) and you add to the mix.

    In short, when you are contacted by anyone, be the better citizen. Use that contact to make it an educational experience for the uninformed (citizen or cop). Your action/reaction to a contact will speak volumes. Nothing looks worse that having you explode or get angry at an encounter and have that video wind up on the television news or YouTube (perception versus reality being the main driver in broadcast news these days - if it looks bad, it is bad).

    Just some thoughts.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lynnwood, WA, ,
    Posts
    1,487

    Post imported post

    That sounds very noble. Have you by any chance ever had a police confrontation? Not a speeding ticket where you showed the cop your CWP, I mean an actual confrontation.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North of Seattlle, South of Canada, Washington, USA
    Posts
    173

    Post imported post

    Ehh, that for me or someone else.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lynnwood, WA, ,
    Posts
    1,487

    Post imported post

    I guess it sort of was directed at you, but it was really just a cynical comment about the link in the OP in general.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North of Seattlle, South of Canada, Washington, USA
    Posts
    173

    Post imported post

    Ahh, ok!

    Police confrontations? Heck all the time. Except I usually give them rather than receive. I get enough confrontations from my wife and daughters to make life interesting.

    (Hint: profile for me. Or, it other words, po-po, five-oh, bacon bits, donut muncher, or my favorite, Starbucks swilling, biscotti muncher )

  14. #14
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,558

    Post imported post

    Morris wrote:
    Ahh, ok!

    Police confrontations? Heck all the time. Except I usually give them rather than receive. I get enough confrontations from my wife and daughters to make life interesting.

    (Hint: profile for me. Or, it other words, po-po, five-oh, bacon bits, donut muncher, or my favorite, Starbucks swilling, biscotti muncher )
    Nothin' wrong with that. I'm glad we have LEO's on here. It shows that we're not all just a bunch of 'wackos'; though I'll admit to being a bit of a 'gun-nut'. *chuckle*
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North of Seattlle, South of Canada, Washington, USA
    Posts
    173

    Post imported post

    Hell, I'm known as the resident gun-nut constitutionalist. They LOOVE me at the PD.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lynnwood, WA, ,
    Posts
    1,487

    Post imported post

    Morris wrote:
    Hell, I'm known as the resident gun-nut constitutionalist. They LOOVE me at the PD.
    Can we clone you?

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North of Seattlle, South of Canada, Washington, USA
    Posts
    173

    Post imported post

    I dunno. I give sergeants and chiefs ulcers and bad dreams.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410

    Post imported post

    Morris wrote:
    I dunno. I give sergeants and chiefs ulcers and bad dreams.
    Darn! I was hoping you were a sergeant or a chief!

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    161

    Post imported post

    Morris wrote:
    Ahh, ok!

    Police confrontations? Heck all the time. Except I usually give them rather than receive. I get enough confrontations from my wife and daughters to make life interesting.

    (Hint: profile for me. Or, it other words, po-po, five-oh, bacon bits, donut muncher, or my favorite, Starbucks swilling, biscotti muncher )
    The fuzz?

    :P

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North of Seattlle, South of Canada, Washington, USA
    Posts
    173

    Post imported post

    I prefer bacon bits if you don't mind.

  21. #21
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,558

    Post imported post

    Morris wrote:
    I prefer bacon bits if you don't mind.
    ROFL!

    Yeah... you're going to fit right in here.

    I hope you'll be able to make it to one of our lunch get-togethers.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North of Seattlle, South of Canada, Washington, USA
    Posts
    173

    Post imported post

    Will try. Big challenge is still getting into the whole graveyard shift again plus still getting the little one's sugars in line.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,247

    Post imported post

    I am not sure what it is but the vast majority on this forum or at least majority of those who post regulary seem to use a completely different standard if a gun in involved. In one post a man passed out in his front yard it was reported to the police. When the LEOwent to check on him he wasn't there so the LEO followed tracks in the snow.In another case deputies checked on a 911 call but failed to break through a locked gate. In both cases people complained about the actions of the police. One comment was what business does a LEO have on private property. The other case was people complaining that they should have followed up on the call and shoulld be fired for negelcting their job.

    I won't go into the details of either because all of you know the cases. It just seems that when most slap on a gun they no longer have any respect for anyone, especially LEO, private property ownersand the spirit ofthe law. They claim that carrying a gun is a God given right but I can't find anywhere in the Bible or other religous books where God said anything about guns. Most are ready to shoot and kill anyone that looks like they are robbing someone but let a LEO taser that same person and they are ready to fire him and sue for a civil rights violation.

    Rant off.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Union, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,256

    Post imported post

    PT111 wrote:
    I am not sure what it is but the vast majority on this forum or at least majority of those who post regulary seem to use a completely different standard if a gun in involved. In one post a man passed out in his front yard it was reported to the police. When the LEOwent to check on him he wasn't there so the LEO followed tracks in the snow.In another case deputies checked on a 911 call but failed to break through a locked gate. In both cases people complained about the actions of the police. One comment was what business does a LEO have on private property. The other case was people complaining that they should have followed up on the call and shoulld be fired for negelcting their job.

    I won't go into the details of either because all of you know the cases. It just seems that when most slap on a gun they no longer have any respect for anyone, especially LEO, private property ownersand the spirit ofthe law. They claim that carrying a gun is a God given right but I can't find anywhere in the Bible or other religous books where God said anything about guns. Most are ready to shoot and kill anyone that looks like they are robbing someone but let a LEO taser that same person and they are ready to fire him and sue for a civil rights violation.

    Rant off.
    You need glasses and start using logic if you really think people here think like that. It's pretty much that if a gun is involved LEOs go into hyper drive and tend to over react even if the citizen is doing nothing wrong.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •