Wisconsin Firearms AGE LIMIT

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It has been held for years that children under 12 cannot hunt in Wisconsin. In fact, the Hunting regulations Http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/regs/deer07.pdf state on page 12:

"Persons under the age of 12 may not possess a firearm or hunt unless participating in a DNR Learn to Hunt event or Hunter Education Course."

State Constitution ArticleI Section 25 States:

"The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose."

Doesn't that create a contradiction?

I understand they can control HUNTING, but why can't I take my 8 Yr old to the range and educate him/her about firearms? Wouldn't this violate his/her constitutional rights? How would you suggest challenging this?

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Severely limit the DNR's charter.

As it stands, they are merely another arm of the State Police. Imagine, making blaze orange mandadamntory! Safety is a tryant's tool; no one can be against safety.

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Chapter 29.304 is a relevant statute.

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Article I section 26 of the Wisconsin Constitution guarantees the people the right to Fish, Hunt and Trap. It adds a conditional phrase that isn't contained in Article I section 25. "Subject to reasonable regulations". Just something else to add confusion to the Wisconsin convoluted firearm laws.

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I found this...http://www.doj.state.wi.us/DLES/cib/statutes.asp

[align=center]WISCONSIN STATUTES RELEVANT TO FIREARMS
(full text may be found at http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/stats.html )[/align]

1. Art. I, § 25 Wis. Const.: Right to bear arms
2. 23.33(3)(e) Transportation on all terrain vehicle
3. 29.089 Possession of firearm in state parks (formerly 29.557)
4. 29.091/29.621 Possession of firearm in wildlife refuge
5. 29.301 No hunting within 1700 feet of school/hospital
6. 29.304 Use of firearms by persons under 16 (formerly 29.227)
7. 29.314 Possession of firearm while shining animals (formerly 29.245)
8. 29.341 Duty on accidental shooting of another while hunting
9. 29.345 Reporting accidental shooting of self while hunting
10. 29.593 Hunter safety certificate requirement (formerly 29.226)
11. 29.861 Possession of firearm at wildlife exhibit
12. 29.927 Public nuisances
13. 49.127(8)(e)2 Suspension from food stamp program for trading food stamps for firearms/ammo
14. 51.20(13)(cv)1 Restriction on possession for mental health commitments
15. 66.92 Local regulation of firearms
16. 120.13(1)2m Expulsion from school for firearm possession
17. 167.30 Use of firearms near parks
18. 167.31 Transportation of firearms
19. 175.30 Purchase in contiguous states
20. 175.35 Background check/waiting period for handgun purchase
21. 175.37 Warning regarding firearms storage on retail sale of firearms
22. 813.12(4m) Prohibited possession under domestic abuse restraining order
23. 813.122(5m) Prohibited possession under child abuse restraining order
24. 813.125(4m) Prohibited possession under harassment restraining order
25. 938.341 Notice of prohibition: person adjudicated delinquent of a felony (formerly 48.341)
26. 939.22(10) Definition of dangerous weapon
27. 939.63 Sentence enhancer for possession/use of dangerous weapon during crime
28. 940.08 Homicide by negligent handling of a firearm
29. 940.09 Homicide by intoxicated use of a firearm
30. 940.24 Causing injury by negligent handling of dangerous weapon
31. 941.20 Endangering safety by use of firearm
32. 941.23 Carrying a concealed weapon
33. 941.235 Possession of firearm in public building
34. 941.237 Possession of handgun in bar/tavern
35. 941.25 Machine guns
36. 941.26 Machine guns
37. 941.27 Machine guns
38. 941.28 Possession of short barreled rifle/shotgun
39. 941.29 Possession by prohibited persons
40. 941.295 Electric weapons
41. 941.296 Use/possession of handgun and armor piercing ammunition during crime
42. 941.2965 Facsimile firearm
43. 941.297 Imitation firearm
44. 941.298 Possession of silencers
45. 941.299 Laser pointers
46. 941.31 Possession of improvised explosive devices
47. 943.07 Shooting at railroad train
48. 943.10(2) Burglary: committing while armed or arming self
49. 943.32(2) Armed robbery: use or threat of use of dangerous weapon
50. 946.44 Introduction of firearm into jail/prison
51. 948.55 Storage of loaded firearm where children are present
52. 948.60 Possession by person under 18
53. 948.605 Possession in school zone
54. 951.09 Shooting at caged or staked animals
55. 968.20 Disposition of seized firearms
56. 973.033 Advising convicted felons of firearm possession prohibition

A full text search of the statutes have 71 hits on 'Firearms.' I note that this list did not include the 'annotations' that the serch hit on.

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Yep, I did the same search. I guess my question is directed at the constitutionality of

29.304(1)(b) Restrictions on possession or control of a firearm

If all citizens have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose, then shouldn't a child, under direct adult supervision, at a shooting range, have the right to use a firearm for recreation?

To date, rulings by the court pertaining to section 25 only deal with concealed carry. Here I am talking about a controlled use, in a controlled environment, at a place specifically designated forsuch things. A RECREATIONAL use.

Does anybody know how to put a request in to the AG and actually get a ruling specifically on this issue?

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I believe 29.304(1)(b) only applies to hunting. The applicable statute for taking a kid to the range is 948.60 whichallows a person under 18 to possess a gun for target shooting or other instruction when under the supervision of an adult. An 8 year old can shoot at a range with adult supervision.

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948.60(3)(c) states "is not in compliance with ss. 29.304" so doesn't that say under 12 is NOT legal?

Anybody else as confused as I am about this?

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bnhcomputing wrote:

Does anybody know how to put a request in to the AG and actually get a ruling specifically on this issue?

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Yes, through a legislator. The AG must respond to requests from a legislator.

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/ag/opinions/

The attorney general shall . . . [g]ive his or her opinion in writing, when required, without fee, upon all questions of law submitted to him or her by the legislature, either house thereof or the senate or assembly committee on organization, or by the head of any department of state government. — Wis. Stat. § 165.015

By statute, the Attorney General must, when asked, provide the legislature and designated Wisconsin state government officials with an opinion on legal questions. The Attorney General may also give formal legal opinions to district attorneys and county corporation counsel under certain circumstances. Wis. Stat. § 165.25(3) and 59.42(1)(c).

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So why don't some of you start putting some heat on your legislators to ask the AG for an opinion on open carry and the constitutionality of concealed vehicle carry? All legislatures have email addresses. Instead of spending energy posting a lot of talk on this forum. Send some email where it may have some results to clear up the Wisconsin firearm mess.

I have sent letters to the AG. To the county DA. My State Senator. MY State Assemblyman. The Badger State Sheriff and Deputy Association. The Wisconsin Sheriffs association.

All have been with mixed success. The AG and DA offices responded that they were prohibited by state statute from giving advice to private citizens, but reading between the lines of their reponses it is apparent that they feel OC is lawful. What we need is a question from someone to whom they must give opinion ( i.e a legislative representative). My Senator agrees that the requirement to carry a firearm concealed in or on a vehicle is unconstitutional but refuses to do much about it. The two sheriff organizations have as of now not responded (probably for obvious reasons).

One person is going to be ignored by these organizations. He\she will especially be ignored on subjects as controversial as the ones we are interested in. There has to be a significant concern by a number of people before they will even admit a problem exists.

It's time for us to collectively stop running off at the mouth and put our energies to activities that will get results. It's time to start bombarding our legistative representatives to take legislative action to fix our gun laws, or at a minimum force them to ask the AG for an opinion on OC and vehicle transportation. We have a hunter and firearm friendly AG in office. It's time to get him involved. Certainly there has to be at least one legislative representative out there that has the guts not to be afraid of Doyle. It's time for us to find him\her. Only by flooding them with email will we find one. Remeber: These people were hired by us. They are obligated to represent us and are sworn to uphold the State Constitution. There is nothing to be afraid of.

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Lammie wrote:

One person is going to be ignored by these organizations. Heshe will especially be ignored on subjects as controversial as the ones we are interested in. There has to be a significant concern by a number of people before they will even admit a problem exists.

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Hence my efforts with GG's petition. I have asked for an invitation to my local hunt club meeting where I will argue for signatures. Usually I argue one-on-one over a dinner invitation or a convenient social engagement.

Please to not turn a blind eye to the NRA's involvement. The NRA, in working for CCW and changing that law, are working directly against *my* interests. So I have to tread carefully to avoid crossing a true NRA 'member' neighbor.

What will I find at the hunt club?

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$

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SECTION 11. 29.304 (5) (b) of the statutes is created to read: 29.304 (5) (b) The restrictions on the possession and control of a firearm under sub. (1) do not apply to a person using a firearm in target practice if he or she is accompanied by his or her parent or guardian or by a person at least 18 years of age who is designated by the parent or guardian.

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948.60(3)(a) (a) This section does not apply to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a dangerous weapon when the dangerous weapon is being used in target practice under the supervision of an adult or in a course of instruction in the traditional and proper use of the dangerous weapon under the supervision of an adult. This section does not apply to an adult who transfers a dangerous weapon to a person under 18 years of age for use only in target practice under the adult's supervision or in a course of instruction in the traditional and proper use of the dangerous weapon under the adult's supervision.

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So to clear this "age old" question up: When Doyle signed the mentored hunting bill, it eliminated all age restrictions at "ranges" in Wisconsin. You can now take your kids shooting at the range at any age.:celebrate

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My son has been shooting the .22 of the back deck, since he was 5. It is obviously under very close supervision. I have found it is a very effective way, to instill proper safety, and gun handling skills.