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Thread: Seattle Center Children's Museum

  1. #1
    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    Dress: Jeans, nice button down shirt
    Sidearm: Springfield XD9 4" in a Serpa holster

    Took the kids to the Children's Museum on New Year's Eve. It was cold, so I wasn't planning to OC and it wasn't until I had been in there a while and was trying to keep up with my kids that I got too warm and decided to remove my jacket.

    With all the kids around, I adjusted my behavior and kept my back and or gun side towards the walls to avoid any curious hands from reaching where they shouldn't, so that may have played into my not being approached until I had been OCing for about 2 hours or so.

    I was approached by one gentleman first who asked whether that was a gun I was carrying (yes) and then asked if I was a police officer (no). By this point, another man had joined the first. The first man indicated that I would have to take it out to my car or leave. I asked him if this was city property and he said it was. I then politely pointed out that no rules could be made to prohibit lawful carry on city property.

    The second man chimed in and said that that was true and asked if I could cover it up. I indicated to him that I had been covering it up, but that I became too warm and had to remove my jacket. I politely told him that if I got cold, I'd put my jacket back on, but that I wasn't going to put my jacket back on and sweat the rest of my time in the museum just to accomodate them. I reiterated that what I was doing was legal.

    They quickly replied that they realized that it was legal and that they couldn't make me leave but that there were some other patrons who were getting nervous about it and approaching managment asking that something be done. I politely suggested that they explain to the patrons that there is nothing wrong with what I am doing and that if I wanted to hurt someone, that I certainly wouldn't be openly carrying the gun before doing so.

    They said that explaining that wouldn't help, but that they understood my position. The first guy said that he would need to inform security that there was a weapon on the premises and indicated that he would give them my description so I wouldn't be stopped again if I went upstairs to the food court area, and then he left. The second man stayed and talked with me for a few minutes. He said that with all the kids here, parents tend to be rather protective. I said that I knew and that such was the exact reason I was carrying and reminded him of the Omaha shootings and the Colorado Springs church shooting that was stopped by a citizen with a gun. The point that my reason for carrying was the same as the other parents' reasons for getting upset seemed to amuse him as he chuckled when I pointed that out.

    The first gentleman, whose name and position I neglected to note, was very professional and polite. The second gentleman was the head of human resources if I remember correctly and almost seemed sympathetic to my wanting to carry. I'd bet two months pay that employees there are prohibited from carrying.

    I went on with the time at the museum without incident but I did notice a few parents "keeping their distance" from me. I made sure I was extremely polite and in the tighter areas, moved back a bit if I was standing next to toys that I could tell parents and kids wanted to get to. Generally, just tried to put a good face on OC.

    All in all, not too bad of a day.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" - George Washington
    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

    As always, insert standard IANAL disclaimer here.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    eBratt wrote:
    The first man indicated that I would have to take it out to my car or leave. I asked him if this was city property and he said it was. I then politely pointed out that no rules could be made to prohibit lawful carry on city property.

    The second man chimed in and said that that was true and asked if I could cover it up.
    It sounds like they were hoping you didn't know the law. I think this was an excellent encounter. I'm still bothered by the idea that other people's nervousness seems to be justification for our being asked to conceal, and I'm still trying to come up with a reasonable rebuttal.

  3. #3
    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    The easiest response is that just because I get nervous when I see someone get behind the wheel of a car because I'm not sure they can handle the resopnsibility of driving without ending up hurting/killing someone (16 year olds, Blackberry distracted drivers, 80 year olds, cell phone gabbers, etc.) doesn't give me the right to go up and insist that they don't drive.

    Because the comparison deals with a stranger having the means to inflict serious harm/death and uncomfortable feelings, it seems like a solid comparison. The down side to that comparison is that driving is a privilege and not a right and comparing the two can possibly do a disservice as/when the discussion moves to other aspects (gun licensing, registration, mandatory classes, etc.).

    Just my thoughts. Anyone have a better comparison?
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" - George Washington
    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

    As always, insert standard IANAL disclaimer here.

  4. #4
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    This reminds me of an appelate court judge saying that just because shewould beuncomfortable with a openly displayed firearm doesn't mean it's illegal or that it warrants alarm. I forget what case it was in but if am appellate judge puts it into perspective like that then why shouldn't we?

    I think that the people a the Seattle center handled it fairly well. They are there to make sure everyone has a pleasant and uneventful time and if that means requesting someone to cover up their firearm because of expressed concerns from another patron then I think they did thier job. It does not mean we have to comply butI think we should respect them for attempting to do thier job as long as it is done in a respectful and politemanner.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  5. #5
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    An excellent encounter. I have found Seattle to be fairly OC friendly.

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    The Seattle Center had to handle it well. They got spanked a few years back when the city went on a tear about concealed carry by both citizens and cops to events at the Center. As I recall, the SPD Guild withe the KCSO guild made it a public issue and the Center management with Seattle proper had to back down.



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    Morris wrote:
    The Seattle Center had to handle it well. They got spanked a few years back when the city went on a tear about concealed carry by both citizens and cops to events at the Center. As I recall, the SPD Guild withe the KCSO guild made it a public issue and the Center management with Seattle proper had to back down.

    If I remember correctly that was caused by thier restricing LEO carry inside Key Arena. Not the restriction of carry at the entire Seattle Center.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  8. #8
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    joeroket wrote:
    This reminds me of an appelate court judge saying that just because shewould beuncomfortable with a openly displayed firearm doesn't mean it's illegal or that it warrants alarm. I forget what case it was in but if am appellate judge puts it into perspective like that then why shouldn't we?
    That wasn’t a judge; it was the attorney for Casad who said that. The Judge agreed.

  9. #9
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    You may be right. What I do recall is a whole lotta tap dancing by Seattle.

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