Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: just a thought... and a few questions

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bellingham, ,
    Posts
    608

    Post imported post

    while gearing up for starting school at WWU, i was reading the various regs they have (dang, work seems more inviting than the school).

    are campus cops actualy police? or are they security?

    ooo... and another one i thought of, apparently the school can fine me ($100+) for having expired tabs on my car... where do they get that authority? If the authority comes from being a state/government entity wouldn't that argument be useful the next time CC or OC on college grounds for students comes up (not that it's not always an issue, just saying) and they say it's akin to private prop?

    just thinking i can have a car in my (private not rented) driveway with no tabs, no plates, no insurance (and i can drive it drunk if i feel like it...just proving a point) for as long as i feel like.... because it ain't on a public roadway.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    As long as the school admins follow the legal requirements for creating a WAC then they, as long as it is done correctly, have the authority to enforce those WAC's. They are civil penalties only.

    As far as your analogy goes it is fairly flawed. You do not have to be on a public roadway to be arrested for DUI or reckless endangerment.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=34.05 is what gives them the authority to create WAC's.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  3. #3
    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    871

    Post imported post

    uncoolperson wrote:

    are campus cops actualy police? or are they security?





    Depends on the campus. The UW in Seattle has an actual police department. They attend the same academy as all the other police in the state and have the same authority. Check the website. It should tell you more about them.


    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

  4. #4
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,558

    Post imported post

    j2l3 wrote:
    uncoolperson wrote:

    are campus cops actualy police? or are they security?





    Depends on the campus. The UW in Seattle has an actual police department. They attend the same academy as all the other police in the state and have the same authority. Check the website. It should tell you more about them.

    In fact, the UWPD is one of only two PD's that I know of that are "Nationally Accredited" (not an easy accredidation to get), the other being Edmonds PD. All other's that I've seen are only state accredited or not accredited at all. You can see it on the upper rear quarter panel of most patrol cars if they have it as they are proud to receive accredidation.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bellingham, ,
    Posts
    608

    Post imported post

    joeroket wrote:
    As long as the school admins follow the legal requirements for creating a WAC then they, as long as it is done correctly, have the authority to enforce those WAC's. They are civil penalties only.

    As far as your analogy goes it is fairly flawed. You do not have to be on a public roadway to be arrested for DUI or reckless endangerment.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=34.05 is what gives them the authority to create WAC's.
    huh, didn't know that... i was told differently, but now after research (i gotta start remembering to do that), i see... thanks for pointing that out.

    is it valid now?

    just thinking i can have a car in my (private not rented) driveway with no tabs, no plates, no insurance for as long as i feel like.... because it ain't on a public roadway.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    uncoolperson wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    As long as the school admins follow the legal requirements for creating a WAC then they, as long as it is done correctly, have the authority to enforce those WAC's. They are civil penalties only.

    As far as your analogy goes it is fairly flawed. You do not have to be on a public roadway to be arrested for DUI or reckless endangerment.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=34.05 is what gives them the authority to create WAC's.
    huh, didn't know that... i was told differently, but now after research (i gotta start remembering to do that), i see... thanks for pointing that out.

    is it valid now?

    just thinking i can have a car in my (private not rented) driveway with no tabs, no plates, no insurance for as long as i feel like.... because it ain't on a public roadway.

    LOL Yea I guess that would be a valid point. I have been told alot of things that are "law" by people who sounded like they were confident in what they were saying. It wasn't until I started researching the RCW's and reading them that I found that a majority of people think they know because it sounds logical but in fact they are way off base. No harm no foul, I'm just glad you didn't test your theory.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    just_a_car wrote:
    j2l3 wrote:
    uncoolperson wrote:

    are campus cops actualy police? or are they security?





    Depends on the campus. The UW in Seattle has an actual police department. They attend the same academy as all the other police in the state and have the same authority. Check the website. It should tell you more about them.

    In fact, the UWPD is one of only two PD's that I know of that are "Nationally Accredited" (not an easy accredidation to get), the other being Edmonds PD. All other's that I've seen are only state accredited or not accredited at all. You can see it on the upper rear quarter panel of most patrol cars if they have it as they are proud to receive accredidation.
    There are 14 agencies in Wa. that arenationally accredited according to http://www.calea.org

    Not nearly enough in my opinion.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bellingham, ,
    Posts
    608

    Post imported post

    http://www.ps.wwu.edu/police/about/index.aspx

    The Western Washington University Police Department employs 14 police officers, all of whom are commissioned by the state of Washington. They receive the same training and are invested with the same powers and authority as other police officers in the state, including the authority to make arrests.

    The WWU Police Department has primary responsibility for law enforcement on campus and works closely with the Bellingham Police Department and other law enforcement agencies in areas of mutual jurisdiction. University Police officers investigate all crimes reported on campus and enforce all applicable criminal and traffic laws. Persons arrested by officers have their cases adjudicated in local courts.
    now i've started again... i'm going to be diging around the rcw's for awhile now, thanks

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=28B.10.572
    thats cool



  9. #9
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,558

    Post imported post

    joeroket wrote:
    There are 14 agencies in Wa. that arenationally accredited according to http://www.calea.org

    Not nearly enough in my opinion.
    Actually it shows 16 with 6 of them being self-assessed.

    What's interesting is that I see UWPD on the list, but not Edmonds and I know I've seen it on their cars. I'll have to go into the main office and ask who gave them accredidation.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bellingham, ,
    Posts
    608

    Post imported post

    okay, so 290 preempts local laws and ordinances.

    since the legal law enforcement of a university is the police force

    which also enforces the WAC saying i can't have a gun (makes it a law of sorts right?)

    and the WAC saying i can't have a gun, is a locally applied law.

    wouldn't that be preempted with

    Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law.
    sorry, i know I'm beating a dead horse..... but reading this stuff, making me wonder more than when i just heard this stuff.

  11. #11
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,558

    Post imported post

    uncoolperson, I wondered the same thing and can't conclusively say either way, but I figure that if state law says they can make the WAC as law, then .290 supports that, since it's state law that allows them to do that, not their own local laws.

    That's just my non-lawyer interpretation.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Skagit County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    87

    Post imported post

    I'm not sure what exact authority WWU campus security officers have, but I can tell you that they are *NOT* police. They don't carry guns, I'm not even sure if they can legally pull you over while driving. Pretty much they just drive around, looking for prowlers and pot smokers. They call the real police if the need arises. Sometimes, the real police do patrol the university, as well.

    My gf lives right down the street from WWU and has been going there for the last couple years, and I would highly advise that if you are going to be a student at WWU, that you do not carry a handgun, especially open carry, if you value your education. At the minimum, you would be forced to forfeit your funds for the quarter of classes, forfeit the credits you had been taking classes for that quarter. As a non-student, you could only be trespessed, which isnt that big a deal, but still not worth the drama. I've had no problem with OCing around the rest of bellingham though, but I've heard some bad stories. Let me know when ur in town man, i'll buy ya a beer.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bellingham, ,
    Posts
    608

    Post imported post

    cut_cutta wrote:
    Let me know when ur in town man, i'll buy ya a beer.
    I'm always in b-ham... aside from when i don't want to smell no more patchouli

    let me know again when you're up here and i'll have to make the leap from C to O.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    just_a_car wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    There are 14 agencies in Wa. that arenationally accredited according to http://www.calea.org

    Not nearly enough in my opinion.
    Actually it shows 16 with 6 of them being self-assessed.

    What's interesting is that I see UWPD on the list, but not Edmonds and I know I've seen it on their cars. I'll have to go into the main office and ask who gave them accredidation.
    We must have used different search criteria. I searched for US, Wa, Law Enforcement Accredation. This one shows 14 but yours makes more sense since the UW says they joined 15 other agencies in the accredation.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    uncoolperson wrote:
    okay, so 290 preempts local laws and ordinances.

    since the legal law enforcement of a university is the police force

    which also enforces the WAC saying i can't have a gun (makes it a law of sorts right?)

    and the WAC saying i can't have a gun, is a locally applied law.

    wouldn't that be preempted with

    Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law.
    sorry, i know I'm beating a dead horse..... but reading this stuff, making me wonder more than when i just heard this stuff.
    You have to remember that WAC's only carry a civil penalty. It is a rule not a law that they use to say you cannot carry on the campus. I think it is BS that they can create rules that go against law and constitution but I have not found any cases where it has been brought in front of a judge to challenge it constitutionally.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Blaine, WA, ,
    Posts
    1,315

    Post imported post

    joeroket wrote:
    You have to remember that WAC's only carry a civil penalty. It is a rule not a law that they use to say you cannot carry on the campus. I think it is BS that they can create rules that go against law and constitution but I have not found any cases where it has been brought in front of a judge to challenge it constitutionally.
    The problem of course being that someone, a student, has to get busted for it and go through the court process in order to have the challenge. I was there and chose not to because I wanted to finish my grad school and start my new career more than I wanted to test the constitutionality of the law.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Blaine, WA, ,
    Posts
    1,315

    Post imported post

    uncoolperson wrote:
    cut_cutta wrote:
    Let me know when ur in town man, i'll buy ya a beer.
    I'm always in b-ham... aside from when i don't want to smell no more patchouli

    let me know again when you're up here and i'll have to make the leap from C to O.
    Maybe we should have a Whatcom County get to gether soon. Just something simple like coffee.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bellingham, ,
    Posts
    608

    Post imported post

    heresolong wrote:
    uncoolperson wrote:
    cut_cutta wrote:
    Let me know when ur in town man, i'll buy ya a beer.
    I'm always in b-ham... aside from when i don't want to smell no more patchouli

    let me know again when you're up here and i'll have to make the leap from C to O.
    Maybe we should have a Whatcom County get to gether soon. Just something simple like coffee.
    whatcom county, coffee.. yeah that goes together. Weekends for me, starting school tuesday (8 credits), and the full-time job leave little weekday room.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/6737.html

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North of Seattlle, South of Canada, Washington, USA
    Posts
    173

    Post imported post

    WWU does have a PD department, CJTC certified peace officers. They also have a campus security attachment. Every public 4 year has it's own PD, CWU, EWU, UWPD, WWU.

    And accredation is not all that it is cracked up to be. Looks nice on paper but in reality does not offer an advantage versus non-accredited. Also, it's amazingly expensive and often unaffordable for smaller agencies. Don't look at accredation as making a department better. It doesn't always parlay that way.

  20. #20
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,558

    Post imported post

    Okay, so I just stopped by the Edmonds PD and asked why they weren't listed as Nationally Accredited anymore and the lady at the desk told me that when the Chief of Police passed away not too long ago, they lost thier National Accredidation, but retain their State Accredidation. They decided not to put the man-hours of a currently-understaffed department towards getting National Accredidation and instead just have them out on the street doing their job. I whole-heartedly agree with their decision.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North of Seattlle, South of Canada, Washington, USA
    Posts
    173

    Post imported post

    Accrediation is a long and labor intensive process. Many agencies in the state already have CALEA approved policy packages in place due to insurer demands. Our policy is CALEA based and can be converted if we proceed that way. But the cost in personnel hours, general costs and so on can be $35K and up, depending on the size of the agency.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Seattle-ish, Washington, USA
    Posts
    222

    Post imported post

    OK, I'm a noob and have been lurking here for awhile, but I need to share this story from my days at WWU in the '80s . . .

    I lived off campus and worked into theevenings. While off campus I always CCed, and usually left my PT99 at home. I would return to get it before work.

    One day for a reason I don't recall, I ended up on campus while carrying. I stopped by the PD and told the student receptionist that I wanted to leave a firearm with them while on campus. She asked where it was, and I removed it from the holster (clip already out). Locked back the slide and handed it to her butt first. (I would probably do this differently today with much more experience, because I think the poor girl probably wet herself and I certainly didn't mean to cause her any alarm! At all times the muzzle was pointed safely . . . )

    Anyway, two or three hours later I return to the PD to retrieve my piece. Same girl says, "The Lt. would like to talk to you."

    "s**t." I think. I'm screwed.

    The Lt. comes out carrying my pistol, and hands it to me. He says they were wondering why I left it with them. "Because I thought firearms were prohibited on campus," I reply. "Only in the residence halls," he says. Then he proceeds to ask me why I chose the Taurus, how I like it, says that some of the officers were considering it and they wanted my opinion. He was very professional and cool about it all.

    Now -- you won't believe this! He says, "You know, we're an unarmed police force, so if something bad happens we have to call the Bellingham Police. We would actually like to know there are a few armed and law-abiding citizens on campus. You can carry any time you want to." (maybe not a direct quote, but very close)

    I thanked him and left. An CCed nearly every day the next two years at WWU.:celebrate

    Only once was I "made" by another student -- I carried in a vertical SH sometimes, and he walked by and patted me on the back -- ON the holster. Thought something might come of it, but if he had called WWU PD, they would have said, "yah, we know about him!"

    What happened to the good ol' days?

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bellingham, ,
    Posts
    608

    Post imported post

    Charles Paul Lincoln wrote:
    What happened to the good ol' days?

    not so old, really...

    you know that email that goes around about life in the fifties and the shotgun in someone's car at high school....

    when i was in middle school a teacher had a few shotguns in their car from duck hunting that morning.... a few students asked the principal and he said "it's okay, he was duck hunting this morning..." (in Blaine, not some rural [well not really] town).

    13 or so years ago, and to think even mentioning it today could get me cuffed.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •