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just a thought... and a few questions

U

uncoolperson

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while gearing up for starting school at WWU, i was reading the various regs they have (dang, work seems more inviting than the school).

are campus cops actualy police? or are they security?

ooo... and another one i thought of, apparently the school can fine me ($100+) for having expired tabs on my car... where do they get that authority? If the authority comes from being a state/government entity wouldn't that argument be useful the next time CC or OC on college grounds for students comes up (not that it's not always an issue, just saying) and they say it's akin to private prop?

just thinking i can have a car in my (private not rented) driveway with no tabs, no plates, no insurance (and i can drive it drunk if i feel like it...just proving a point) for as long as i feel like.... because it ain't on a public roadway.
 
J

joeroket

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As long as the school admins follow the legal requirements for creating a WAC then they, as long as it is done correctly, have the authority to enforce those WAC's. They are civil penalties only.

As far as your analogy goes it is fairly flawed. You do not have to be on a public roadway to be arrested for DUI or reckless endangerment.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=34.05 is what gives them the authority to create WAC's.
 
j2l3

j2l3

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uncoolperson wrote:

are campus cops actualy police? or are they security?





Depends on the campus. The UW in Seattle has an actual police department. They attend the same academy as all the other police in the state and have the same authority. Check the website. It should tell you more about them.
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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j2l3 wrote:
uncoolperson wrote:

are campus cops actualy police? or are they security?





Depends on the campus. The UW in Seattle has an actual police department. They attend the same academy as all the other police in the state and have the same authority. Check the website. It should tell you more about them.
Click to expand...

In fact, the UWPD is one of only two PD's that I know of that are "Nationally Accredited" (not an easy accredidation to get), the other being Edmonds PD. All other's that I've seen are only state accredited or not accredited at all. You can see it on the upper rear quarter panel of most patrol cars if they have it as they are proud to receive accredidation.
 
U

uncoolperson

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joeroket wrote:
As long as the school admins follow the legal requirements for creating a WAC then they, as long as it is done correctly, have the authority to enforce those WAC's. They are civil penalties only.

As far as your analogy goes it is fairly flawed. You do not have to be on a public roadway to be arrested for DUI or reckless endangerment.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=34.05 is what gives them the authority to create WAC's.
Click to expand...
huh, didn't know that... i was told differently, but now after research (i gotta start remembering to do that), i see... thanks for pointing that out.

is it valid now?

just thinking i can have a car in my (private not rented) driveway with no tabs, no plates, no insurance for as long as i feel like.... because it ain't on a public roadway.
Click to expand...
 
J

joeroket

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uncoolperson wrote:
joeroket wrote:
As long as the school admins follow the legal requirements for creating a WAC then they, as long as it is done correctly, have the authority to enforce those WAC's. They are civil penalties only.

As far as your analogy goes it is fairly flawed. You do not have to be on a public roadway to be arrested for DUI or reckless endangerment.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=34.05 is what gives them the authority to create WAC's.
Click to expand...
huh, didn't know that... i was told differently, but now after research (i gotta start remembering to do that), i see... thanks for pointing that out.

is it valid now?

just thinking i can have a car in my (private not rented) driveway with no tabs, no plates, no insurance for as long as i feel like.... because it ain't on a public roadway.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


LOL Yea I guess that would be a valid point. I have been told alot of things that are "law" by people who sounded like they were confident in what they were saying. It wasn't until I started researching the RCW's and reading them that I found that a majority of people think they know because it sounds logical but in fact they are way off base. No harm no foul, I'm just glad you didn't test your theory.:D
 
J

joeroket

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just_a_car wrote:
j2l3 wrote:
uncoolperson wrote:

are campus cops actualy police? or are they security?





Depends on the campus. The UW in Seattle has an actual police department. They attend the same academy as all the other police in the state and have the same authority. Check the website. It should tell you more about them.
Click to expand...

In fact, the UWPD is one of only two PD's that I know of that are "Nationally Accredited" (not an easy accredidation to get), the other being Edmonds PD. All other's that I've seen are only state accredited or not accredited at all. You can see it on the upper rear quarter panel of most patrol cars if they have it as they are proud to receive accredidation.
Click to expand...
There are 14 agencies in Wa. that arenationally accredited according to http://www.calea.org

Not nearly enough in my opinion.
 
U

uncoolperson

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http://www.ps.wwu.edu/police/about/index.aspx

The Western Washington University Police Department employs 14 police officers, all of whom are commissioned by the state of Washington. They receive the same training and are invested with the same powers and authority as other police officers in the state, including the authority to make arrests.

The WWU Police Department has primary responsibility for law enforcement on campus and works closely with the Bellingham Police Department and other law enforcement agencies in areas of mutual jurisdiction. University Police officers investigate all crimes reported on campus and enforce all applicable criminal and traffic laws. Persons arrested by officers have their cases adjudicated in local courts.
Click to expand...
now i've started again... i'm going to be diging around the rcw's for awhile now, thanks

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=28B.10.572
thats cool
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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joeroket wrote:
There are 14 agencies in Wa. that arenationally accredited according to http://www.calea.org

Not nearly enough in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Actually it shows 16 with 6 of them being self-assessed.

What's interesting is that I see UWPD on the list, but not Edmonds and I know I've seen it on their cars. I'll have to go into the main office and ask who gave them accredidation.
 
U

uncoolperson

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okay, so 290 preempts local laws and ordinances.

since the legal law enforcement of a university is the police force

which also enforces the WAC saying i can't have a gun (makes it a law of sorts right?)

and the WAC saying i can't have a gun, is a locally applied law.

wouldn't that be preempted with

Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law.
Click to expand...

sorry, i know I'm beating a dead horse..... but reading this stuff, making me wonder more than when i just heard this stuff.
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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uncoolperson, I wondered the same thing and can't conclusively say either way, but I figure that if state law says they can make the WAC as law, then .290 supports that, since it's state law that allows them to do that, not their own local laws.

That's just my non-lawyer interpretation.
 
C

cut_cutta

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I'm not sure what exact authority WWU campus security officers have, but I can tell you that they are *NOT* police. They don't carry guns, I'm not even sure if they can legally pull you over while driving. Pretty much they just drive around, looking for prowlers and pot smokers. They call the real police if the need arises. Sometimes, the real police do patrol the university, as well.

My gf lives right down the street from WWU and has been going there for the last couple years, and I would highly advise that if you are going to be a student at WWU, that you do not carry a handgun, especially open carry, if you value your education. At the minimum, you would be forced to forfeit your funds for the quarter of classes, forfeit the credits you had been taking classes for that quarter. As a non-student, you could only be trespessed, which isnt that big a deal, but still not worth the drama. I've had no problem with OCing around the rest of bellingham though, but I've heard some bad stories. Let me know when ur in town man, i'll buy ya a beer.
 
U

uncoolperson

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cut_cutta wrote:
Let me know when ur in town man, i'll buy ya a beer.
Click to expand...

I'm always in b-ham... aside from when i don't want to smell no more patchouli

let me know again when you're up here and i'll have to make the leap from C to O.
 
J

joeroket

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just_a_car wrote:
joeroket wrote:
There are 14 agencies in Wa. that arenationally accredited according to http://www.calea.org

Not nearly enough in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Actually it shows 16 with 6 of them being self-assessed.

What's interesting is that I see UWPD on the list, but not Edmonds and I know I've seen it on their cars. I'll have to go into the main office and ask who gave them accredidation.
Click to expand...
We must have used different search criteria. I searched for US, Wa, Law Enforcement Accredation. This one shows 14 but yours makes more sense since the UW says they joined 15 other agencies in the accredation.
 
J

joeroket

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uncoolperson wrote:
okay, so 290 preempts local laws and ordinances.

since the legal law enforcement of a university is the police force

which also enforces the WAC saying i can't have a gun (makes it a law of sorts right?)

and the WAC saying i can't have a gun, is a locally applied law.

wouldn't that be preempted with

Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law.
Click to expand...

sorry, i know I'm beating a dead horse..... but reading this stuff, making me wonder more than when i just heard this stuff.
Click to expand...
You have to remember that WAC's only carry a civil penalty. It is a rule not a law that they use to say you cannot carry on the campus. I think it is BS that they can create rules that go against law and constitution but I have not found any cases where it has been brought in front of a judge to challenge it constitutionally.
 
H

heresolong

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joeroket wrote:
You have to remember that WAC's only carry a civil penalty. It is a rule not a law that they use to say you cannot carry on the campus. I think it is BS that they can create rules that go against law and constitution but I have not found any cases where it has been brought in front of a judge to challenge it constitutionally.
Click to expand...
The problem of course being that someone, a student, has to get busted for it and go through the court process in order to have the challenge. I was there and chose not to because I wanted to finish my grad school and start my new career more than I wanted to test the constitutionality of the law.
 
H

heresolong

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uncoolperson wrote:
cut_cutta wrote:
Let me know when ur in town man, i'll buy ya a beer.
Click to expand...

I'm always in b-ham... aside from when i don't want to smell no more patchouli

let me know again when you're up here and i'll have to make the leap from C to O.
Click to expand...
Maybe we should have a Whatcom County get to gether soon. Just something simple like coffee.
 
U

uncoolperson

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heresolong wrote:
uncoolperson wrote:
cut_cutta wrote:
Let me know when ur in town man, i'll buy ya a beer.
Click to expand...

I'm always in b-ham... aside from when i don't want to smell no more patchouli

let me know again when you're up here and i'll have to make the leap from C to O.
Click to expand...
Maybe we should have a Whatcom County get to gether soon. Just something simple like coffee.
Click to expand...
whatcom county, coffee.. yeah that goes together. Weekends for me, starting school tuesday (8 credits), and the full-time job leave little weekday room.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/6737.html
 
M

Morris

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WWU does have a PD department, CJTC certified peace officers. They also have a campus security attachment. Every public 4 year has it's own PD, CWU, EWU, UWPD, WWU.

And accredation is not all that it is cracked up to be. Looks nice on paper but in reality does not offer an advantage versus non-accredited. Also, it's amazingly expensive and often unaffordable for smaller agencies. Don't look at accredation as making a department better. It doesn't always parlay that way.
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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Okay, so I just stopped by the Edmonds PD and asked why they weren't listed as Nationally Accredited anymore and the lady at the desk told me that when the Chief of Police passed away not too long ago, they lost thier National Accredidation, but retain their State Accredidation. They decided not to put the man-hours of a currently-understaffed department towards getting National Accredidation and instead just have them out on the street doing their job. I whole-heartedly agree with their decision.
 
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