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Thread: OT: Insights into Romney and RKBA

  1. #1
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    I think this article is too soft on Huckabee's record on pardons. But the details of this one case on the part of Romney are troubling. You've got to be SERIOUSLY anti-RKBA to hold out on this one.

    Charles

    From the SLTrib:

    Full story at: http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_7874199

    Relevant quotes:

    At age 13, Anthony Circosta shot a classmate in the shoulder with a BB gun. He pleaded guilty in juvenile court to a felony assault and was sentenced to 364 days of probation. From then on, Circosta's life was apparently exemplary. He enlisted in the Army National Guard as a medic, served as a volunteer fireman, and earned a college degree in criminal justice. In 2002, he served as a National Guard medic at the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, which Romney headed. Deployed to Iraq in 2004, Circosta was promoted to first lieutenant and awarded the Bronze Star for meritorious service.
    Circosta needed a gun permit in Massachusetts to gain promotion as a security guard and pursue a career as a police officer. But, to get the permit, Circosta first needed to have his record cleared of a childhood felony. He told the pardon advisory board the childhood incident was not his proudest moment, ''but it happened.'' He moved his life beyond it.
    Twice, the Massachusetts clemency board recommended a pardon. Twice, then-Governor Romney declined to grant it.

    ...

    Romney said he followed his own guideline against pardoning firearm-related offenses if the applicant needed a pardon to obtain a gun permit. Apparently, this guideline left no room for discretion in the case of a 13-year-old middle school student who shot a BB gun at boys cutting through his apartment complex.

    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    I heard this story on KSL on my way home tonight. What a shame. :X

    I have said it before and I will say it again...

    Romney is a flip-flopper and a ******.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    HAHAHHAHAHA i agree with/love kevin HAHAHAHAHA!

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    I love me too. :P
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    I heard this story on KSL on my way home tonight. What a shame. :X

    I have said it before and I will say it again...

    Romney is a flip-flopper and a ******.
    To be fair, Romney has only flipped, he hasn't yet flopped. And even then, "only" on abortion, gay "rights," and illegal immigration.

    He remains firmly bad on socialized health care and RKBA. Give the man credit where it is due.

    I will also point out that he is quite personable, handsome, and well spoken. He is good with money.

    I simply believe he is a New-England Elite Liberal who will screw us on RKBA and end up being far too liberal for my taste on most other issues as well.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    David Nelson wrote
    Gay 'rights'" means what?

    David Nelson
    http://www.stonewallshootingsportsutah.org/
    Salt Lake City
    Dave,

    Respectfully, I think you and everyone else is fully capable of knowing what I mean when I write "gay 'rights'" quoted as I did. And I see no value in getting into a VERY OFF TOPIC discussion on this board.

    However, if you really are not sure what I intended, I'll be happy to discuss it with you privately. I believe you have my personal email address.

    It is our agreement on RKBA issues and our willingness to either ignore or respectfully agree to disagree on all other issues that gives us our strength. Let's not ignore nor undermine that successful formula here.

    All the best, my friend.

    Charles.


    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    David Nelson wrote:
    I agree with you completely, Charles. You shouldn't have written it on this forum in the first place. It has no place here. I forgive you.

    David Nelson
    http://www.stonewallshootingsportsutah.org/
    Salt Lake City
    Thank you for the forgiveness.

    I forgive you for asking a baited question.

    But in context of discussing Romney's political history it was completely appropriate to mention those major areas where he has made dramatic changes contrasted with those areas like RKBA where he has not. What would NOT be appropriate is to get into a debate about what the "correct" position on those other issues is.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    David Nelson wrote:
    I agree, but that's exactly what you seemed to do. Putting the word "rights" in quotation marks means usually that the writer considers it to mean something other than what popular opinion says it means -- a kind of sarcastic editorializing by the writer. In this instance, you suggested that what former Gov. Mitt Romney once supported for the gay citizens of his state weren't rights. Not only is the suggestion factually and facially mistaken, it's offensive by implying a diminutive quality to what I and a lot of other RKBA supporters fight equally hard to protect. You're right, this matter is out of place here. But, it's the kind of casual remark that undercuts my ability to convince other gay Utahns that their RKBA needs to be as equally protected as their right to employment, military service and marriage among others. And, on a more personal note, it makes me wonder what gets said about me when I'm carryingRKBA water.

    David Nelson
    http://www.stonewallshootingsportsutah.org/
    Salt Lake City
    Dave,

    I fear you are still trying to get into a discussion that does not belong here. I will attempt to clarify one last time and then ask you to take it off line with me personally if you have further questions.

    1-I was not aware you were "carrying water" on RKBA. I assumed you were fighting for rights you believed were important.

    2-I tell others than you and I disagree on many political issues, but agree on RKBA. Therefore, we work together on RKBA despite our disagreements in other areas.

    3-Lots of people have found lots of 'rights" they want the legislature to protect. Some see a "right" to terminate a pregnancy at will. Others see a "right" to prevent people from terminating a pregnancy at will. Some believe in a "right" to universal healthcare. Some others believe in a "right" to keep what they earn and donate to private charity as they see fit. Some see a "right" to gay marriage. Others only to gay civil unions. Still others do not recognize any "right" to have the State grant legal sanction to a gay relationship.

    My entire point of putting "rights" in quotes was to avoid this very discussion as all sides would know what I was talking about, issue-wise, but no side would have cause to nail me down as opposing them in some area they held near and dear.

    On a pro-gun list, my number one, biggest concern is the protection and advancement of RKBA. If others have higher priorities, I understand. But I don't care to get a list dragged down in debating gay issues, abortion, taxes, foreign policy, or UFOs.

    The last word will have to be yours if you want it.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    utbagpiper wrote:
    But I don't care to get a list dragged down in debating gay issues, abortion, taxes, foreign policy, or UFOs.



    Charles

    But I want to talk about UFOs


    But anyway back on topic of the off topic discussion. I am having a really hard time in deciding who to vote for. If I could mix a couple of characteristics/beliefs & get rid of the bad characteristics of mutliple candidates to make one SUPER -CANDIDATE that would be great.

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    It is things like this that make me ashamed to live in Massachusetts. The government in this state has zero common sense and freedom has all but died here. The fact that Romney is proud to have granted no pardons shows that our government regards us as mere subjects. They should cut it loose and float it back to England where it belongs.

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    utbagpiper wrote:
    SGT Jensen wrote:
    I heard this story on KSL on my way home tonight. What a shame. :X

    I have said it before and I will say it again...

    Romney is a flip-flopper and a ******.
    To be fair, Romney has only flipped, he hasn't yet flopped. And even then, "only" on abortion, gay "rights," and illegal immigration.

    He remains firmly bad on socialized health care and RKBA. Give the man credit where it is due.

    I will also point out that he is quite personable, handsome, and well spoken. He is good with money.

    I simply believe he is a New-England Elite Liberal who will screw us on RKBA and end up being far too liberal for my taste on most other issues as well.
    Yeah thanks to him everyone is required to buy health insurance. That scumbag didn't do anything good for us while he was governor. But "his excellency" governor Patrick is worse.

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    Come on now; all of usUtah mormonsknow that Romney is really Jesus returned to save the world,so voting for anyone else but him will result in you being cast directly to hell.

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    XD45ACP wrote:
    But anyway back on topic of the off topic discussion. I am having a really hard time in deciding who to vote for. If I could mix a couple of characteristics/beliefs & get rid of the bad characteristics of mutliple candidates to make one SUPER -CANDIDATE that would be great.
    I have your super candidate right here.http://www.alankeyes.com/


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    If Ron Paul doesn't get nominated I don't know who to vote or either, none of the others are very strong on RKBA.

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  20. #20
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    David Nelson wrote:
    Unfortunately, Democratic New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson announced tonight that he's dropped out of the presidential race. He received an A+ from the National Rifle Association of America Inc. and was very pro-gay. Former U.S. Sen. Gravel or Rep. Ron Paul, anyone?

    David Nelson
    Stonewall Shooting Sports of Utah
    Salt Lake City
    Methinks ALL the democrats are very "pro-gay." And now all of them are vehemently anti-RKBA.

    As for me, I keep looking for a candidate who is rock solid on RKBA, and agrees with my positions on abortion, taxes, welfare, the proper role of government, the environment, welfare, the medical system, the proper role of religion in our society, the war in Iraq and on terror in general, GitMo, AND gay issues.

    And, I suppose I could take every opportunity to let everyone on this list know what my positions are on those non-RKBA issues. But I fail to see how it would strengthen our ability to work together on RKBA for me to do so.

    I am willing and anxious to work with almost anyone (I prefer to avoid racists, serious criminals, and the like) on RKBA. If we happen to agree on other issues, great. If not, we might find it easier to work together if we don't constantly bring up those issues.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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