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Thread: Mr. Greg Rotz LTCF Revocation Hearing on Tuesday, 01/08

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    At the risk of redundancy, here's a thread for information about the OCer gathering in Chambersburg, PA on Tuesday.
    [line]A much more detailed thread about the gathering can be found here: http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...roll-call.html

    Info about the situation and events pertaining to it can be found at:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/5845.html
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/5938.html
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/6764.html
    [line]To summarize, Mr. Greg Rotz, known around here as gnbrotz, was confronted by a constable outside the polls on Election Day about his OCing, and asked not to do so in the polls. Mr. Rotz kindly refused, and a few days later, received a letter from the Sheriff's office stating that his LTCF had been revoked as a result of his legal OCing. Mr. Rotz is appealing this unlawful revocation, with the help of funds donated by members of this forum and PAFOA, this coming Tuesday.
    [line]The general plans so far are these:
    -A pre-hearing meeting at New Texas Lunch Restaurant, 108 Lincoln Way W, around noon-ish.
    -Leaving New Texas Lunch around 1315-1330 to walk to the courthouse.
    -Hearing at 1400 at Franklin County Court Administration, 157 Lincoln Way E, Courtroom 1.
    -Post-hearing dinner, immediately following the conclusion of the hearing, at Hoss's Steakhouse, 1740 Lincoln Way E.
    [line]At the moment, I am planning on taking I-78W from Allentown until it merges into I-81S, in order to get to Chambersburg, and I will be leaving the Lehigh Valley around 0930. If anyone needs a ride and lives in the Lehigh Valley area, or within about 20 minutes of the route, PM me and we can arrange a time for pickup. I could pickup in other areas of Eastern-Central Pennsylvania, as I don't mind a good drive (and I usually wake up for work around 0500 anyway), but I might be a little more expectant of gas money in that case.



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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    ... If anyone needs a ride and lives in the Lehigh Valley area, or within about 20 minutes of the route, PM me and we can arrange a time for pickup. I could pickup in other areas of Eastern-Central Pennsylvania, as I don't mind a good drive (and I usually wake up for work around 0500 anyway), but I might be a little more expectant of gas money in that case.


    Glad to see you signed up at PAFOA.

    You may want to post this offer there too

    You going to the pre-hearing gathering?



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    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    imperialism2024 wrote:
    ... If anyone needs a ride and lives in the Lehigh Valley area, or within about 20 minutes of the route, PM me and we can arrange a time for pickup. I could pickup in other areas of Eastern-Central Pennsylvania, as I don't mind a good drive (and I usually wake up for work around 0500 anyway), but I might be a little more expectant of gas money in that case.


    Glad to see you signed up at PAFOA.

    You may want to post this offer there too

    You going to the pre-hearing gathering?
    Nope, I'm just planning on taking four and a half hours for a two-hour trip. :P

    Sorry... yup, I'm planning on hitting the pre-hearing gathering as well.

    ETA: And, posted my offer at PAFOA.

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    Hmpf. I'm becoming increasingly unsure about the legal transport of an unloaded handgun for the purpose of OCing on foot, per the latest posting on http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...tml#post171109



    While I know what I do when I'm not in a group under scrutiny by local LE, I'm growing concerned about whether or not I'm fully legal in transporting an unloaded handgun in, let's say a locked glovebox, without an LTCF.

    Any insight into resolving this dilemma, besides, "just don't carry"?

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Hmpf. I'm becoming increasingly unsure about the legal transport of an unloaded handgun for the purpose of OCing on foot, per the latest posting on http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...tml#post171109



    While I know what I do when I'm not in a group under scrutiny by local LE, I'm growing concerned about whether or not I'm fully legal in transporting an unloaded handgun in, let's say a locked glovebox, without an LTCF.

    Any insight into resolving this dilemma, besides, "just don't carry"?
    The "carry" of handguns in vehicles is banned in Pennsylvania unless you have "any" state's gun carry permit or another exception applies. Permitless people are free to "transport" guns in vehicles provided the manner of transport is not "carrying."

    So what is "carrying"? I am unaware of any apellate PA case law on what is "carrying" in vehicles, but other state's case law on concealed carry is instructive - suffice it to say that in most states, any handgun in wingspan reach of a person in a vehicle is being carried, and in some states, but not all this extends even to locked containers like consoles.

    Obviously this creates a problem for folks in or upon motorcylces, pickup trucks, minivans, and SUVs.

    I would not trust a locked glove box to protect me from a charge of unlawful "carry" inside a vehicle - but at least this method of carry is better than simply having the gun in the vehicle compartment generally, and, allows you to invoke your Fourth Amendment right to refuse a search of the locked containers in a vehicle in a Terry stop - but most folks keep their registration and insurance papers in their glove box, so glove box carry is often problematic.

  6. #6
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    Edited to say:

    Void for vagueness can be fun...

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    I wish I could be there. God Speed Mr. Rotz.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Good luck Mr. Rotz. Even though I can't attend, me and all of us that can't will be supporting you.

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    Good Luck from Michigan

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    A link to the "donation fund" would be cool too.

  11. #11
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    dougwg wrote:
    A link to the "donation fund" would be cool too.
    Donations can be sent via PayPal to gnbrotz -at- embarqmail -dot- com. If you wish to not use PayPal, I am happy to privately provide a mailing address.

    Basic timeline of events and donation fund status can be found at http://www.gnbrotz.com/revocation.

  12. #12
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    Posted under fair use
    ----------------------------------
    New sheriff prepares for gun activists
    By JIM HOOK Senior writer

    Franklin County Sheriff Dane Anthony has an action-packed second day on the job.

    Visitors packing handguns are expected to join the usual crowd for Central Court. A hearing for a gun rights advocate whose carrying permit was revoked by the now-former sheriff may draw more than a dozen "right to carry" supporters from across Pennsylvania.

    The new county sheriff is responsible for security at the courthouse.

    The hearing for Greg Rotz, Chambersburg, is set for 2 p.m. in front of Franklin County President Judge John R. Walker in Courtroom One. Central Court lists about 60 cases today.

    In November, then-Sheriff Robert Wollyung revoked Rotz's permit to carry a concealed firearm after Rotz wore it openly to the New Franklin polling place on Election Day and exchanged words with a constable. The constable had asked Rotz to secure the gun in his vehicle and Rotz would not. Rotz appealed the revocation.

    Rotz's plight has been a hot topic on several Internet discussion groups. Gun rights advocates have raised about $3,000 toward Rotz's legal fees.

    Rotz has said he is trying to right a wrong.

    Wollyung has contended that Rotz's actions on Nov. 6 violated at least the spirit of the law for harassment and disorderly conduct.

    "I know very little about the case," Anthony said. "I didn't personally revoke his handgun permit. The attorneys can hash it out. We'll see what that brings. The outcome will determine what my next move will be."

    Anthony said he and Pat Redding, the solicitor for his office, will attend the hearing.

    "I have not talked to Bob Wollyung," Anthony said. "My primary concern is the safety of employees in the courthouse."

    Sheriff's deputies and employees will be checking visitors to the courthouse. All visitors pass through the metal detector on the first floor. Their bags are X-rayed.

    "Obviously we're going to have to tighten security a little bit," Anthony said. "The public is allowed to come to the courthouse. I don't know how many will appear (for this hearing). They will not be entering the courthouse with weapons."

    Visitors who arrive with handguns will be asked to secure the weapon in their vehicles or at their homes and return to the courthouse, Anthony said. "Or they will have to surrender them to us and they will be returned at the end of the day."

    "I don't anticipate any problems," Anthony said. "I think these people will be professional about it and will understand that they can't enter the courthouse with a weapon."

    Anthony and his sergeant will help the two employees who usually manage the courthouse entrance, Anthony said.

    "They are going to be swamped at the metal detector," Anthony said. "It's a very busy day, anyway. With this it's just going to be busier."

    ----------

    Jim Hook can be reached at 262-4759 or jhook@publicopinionnews.com.
    Link to article

    Link to online comments

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    Greg's LTCF has been re-instated: http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...tml#post173208

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I can't be there in person, but good luck, I'll be there in spirit. (whatever that means! ) I hope that everything goes well!

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