SWAT officers invade home, Police demand boy go to doctor because of fall during horseplay. WorldND

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color of law wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

Johnny Law wrote:

I personally once overheard a gentleman talking at a local gun show to another man. He said that if he ever saw the Police coming up his driveway, he would shoot them all. I was able to discern his identity and address, and logged this info into a database for future reference.

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Now I know Johnny Law's motives. If you ain't with us, your against us. You, Johnny, are the problem in this country. You think you are judge and jury. You have the power to distroy someones life and you will if someone says something you don't like. So you think the LEADS record is for your use and you will use it to harass and intimidate your enemies. Johnny, are you running IP searches on those on this website that say things that you don't like? :cuss:

Sickening, just sickening.

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Let's be careful before judging Johnny Law. Let's take a look at what the sheriff said:

However, the sheriff declined to provide a single instance of the father's illegal behavior. "I can't tell you specifically," he said.

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Now this is important. The sheriff has not bothered to document this guy's supposed threats toward law enforcement. What Johnny Law has done is to document a threat, purely for safety reasons.

When the system fails and Cho shoots up VT, we blame the system for not documenting any warning signs. Johnny Law has not even gone as far as to document anything officially, just to add a warning note in their system.

Now if officers went to serve a legitimate warrant on this man, and he ended up shooting them all and making a high-profile news story, surrounded by cries for an assault weapon ban, and you all found out that Johnny Law had heard him plotting his strategy at a gun show, wouldn't we be upset that he hadn't made a note of it in their system?

We aren't talking about little idle conversations being used against us, we are talking about someone plotting to murder police officers. There is a big difference. If this guy made his way into some police system with a red flag, it is his own fault for being so public about his violent stance toward law enforcement, not some big-brother crackdown.

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color: This annotation to my "record" was before and unrelated to my recent arrest. Discovery won't produce any useful info on these lines. It's not anything that rises to the level of evidence or an aggravating circumstance anyway. We do have a prelim suppression hearing, and maybe we can broach the subject then if they claim that this gave them PC to accost me in the 1st place. Nobody has claimed that so far, so we'll see.

(Sorry - not trying to hijack the thread.)

-ljp

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Johnny Law wrote:

color of law wrote:

Is there more to the story than you are telling us? You said: "I personally once overheard a gentleman talking at a local gun show to another man. He said that if he ever saw the Police coming up his driveway, he would shoot them all. I was able to discern his identity and address, and logged this info into a database for future reference."

Was this guy you overheard a criminal? What prompted you to enter this info into Big Brorther's database? You must have known him to do that. Or did you say something he didn't like and he told you were he stood?

I got problems with what you are saying.

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I could not say at the time if he was or wasn't a criminal, but that was not the critical issue. He specifically said (in a very serious tone) that he would shoot any cops that happened onto his property for whatever reason. I found that to be very disturbing, as myself or fellow Officers could well be the one's who unknowingly respond to his residence one day for whatever reason.

I did not know the guy, and did not speak to him. I simply overheard him. Also I was not in uniform, so he was not "throwing it in my face".

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I am working on a case right now where the LEADS file had a guy listed as posably armed and dangerous. The cops came into his back yard and through him to the ground and tayzered him. There excuse, he was cooking on his grill and there was a complaint about smoke. The guy has had one ticket in his life. He was charged with obstruction of justice and resisting arrest. The cop that placed this info into the LEADS file and the cops that acted on it will being paying a heavy price for their actions. Or I should say the city will be paying the price.

That untrue information placed in the computer has basically distroyed his life. Does he trust cops, not any more.

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The problem is Johnny Law posted something into the LEADS file that could be acted upon in a negative way. Over reaction by others. That's the problem.

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Johnny Law wrote:

All this info does is assist Officers in dealing with potential "problem children", as it is not used by anyone else for any purpose.

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I have only one set of parents. How do you determine someone has the potential to be a problem to you?

As far as the original post, we don't know if this man has had instances that have put him on the business end of a police inquiry. He may have a history, but that doesn't mean the entire incident wasn't blown completely out of proportion. There was no need for the SWAT involvement. This sounds like someone called in a favor to teach the "trailer trash veteran" a lesson.

Our country needs help. We need a high pressure colonic to remove people like this magistrate (and cops who think they can calllabel people based on an exercise of their 1st am right) right out of their positions of pseudo power.

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This sounds a little bit OFF to me , but I guessbecause I said i wanted to kill my sis when i was 9 that when LE comes to my house they will know about it and make sure no harm comes to her!! this is B.S.

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Personally I don't believe John boy law is an actual law enforcement officer. More likely a Mall Security guard that likes to harass folks carrying guns. I can somewhat understand the comments made by the gentleman at the gun show. Much of Law enforcement is out of control in this country. It is a profession that seems to attract bullies and uneducated psychos. Perhaps that gentleman is in fear for his life, due to prior contact or assult by law enforcement.

Five years ago I would have never believed thearticle about the Swat team, however after seeing a local police department arrest a guy for fasting I do.

Literally his local police showed up and entered his apartment without permission (with a master key from the front office) he was asleep and woke up to someone yelling"County police entering your apartment ! " By the time he pulledon apair of jeans they were in his bed room leading him by the arm to the living room where numerous other officers and Emts were "staging".They then proceeded to question him about his eating habits, when he ate last etc. When he admitted to being on a 30 day water fastthey decided he was a crazy and forcibly removed him from his own apartment. He was transported under police guard, by rescue squad where he spent 24 hours receiving IVs and numerous test while handcuffed to a hospital bed. When he was released he had over$ 8,000 in medical bills. I picked him up at the hospital and the guy was an emotional wreck. My wife is a rape crisis counselor and she said he reminded her of some of her clients after an attack. This guy is not a danger to anyone, he just doesn't believe in traditional medicine and uses alternative ways to heal himself. That is not illegal, yet he was arrested and held against his will for around 24 hours. I hope he gets millions when his case goes to trial. This kind of thing has to stop. Wonderful time to be in America, the land of Nazi cops.

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<<<<------ PROUD to be on the Thought Crime database.

Grrrrrrr.

Vote your brain, brothers, not your heart, or we'll end up having to vote from the rooftops.

(but of course, Dear Big Brother.. I certainly don't advocate that.. I didn't mean to have an offending opinion, I'll be good.. promise.)

Erus

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Too late. It's the LEADS database for you, boyo.

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And how does one go about viewing what info exists on this wonderful LEADS database? I can just imagine what OPD has put in about me... I want to know what they put in, but want to find out without sounding paranoid. For that matter how does one challange any innaccurate info?

Gotta love big brother...

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I hope this story makes everyone quiver with fear as it did me.

The only thing about this story that suprises me is that it didn't end with social services removing the child or children from the home.

This story and everything that it could lead to is a parents nightmare.

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sv_libertarian wrote:

And how does one go about viewing what info exists on this wonderful LEADS database? I can just imagine what OPD has put in about me... I want to know what they put in, but want to find out without sounding paranoid. For that matter how does one challange any innaccurate info?

Gotta love big brother...

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LEADS is owned and run by a private Corp. It is not admisable in a criminal case as such. You cannot get it under an open records act request. So what we have here is a private company gathering public information that is only available to government agencies and the government agencies can input data about citizens and use that data to knock down your door and then say you can't have our private data because it belongs to a private company. Pretty slick little operation these boys are running, wouldn't you say.

So when a rotten cop, who hates you, puts "posably armed and dangerous" in the LEADS file about you, you become a marked man. No friendly knock on your door.

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Do you have any links to LEADS or LEADS information?

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Too late. It's the LEADS database for you, boyo.

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Uhm... Showing both my ignorance and "problems with authority" here...

Law Enforcement ASSININE Database System???

I presume it is a nationwide/local(?) database of "extra" info an LEO can put you into, to "WARN" other LEO's of your "bad" attitude or penchant for questioning authority etc? and further reading of this thread implies this is "SECRET" cop access only info??? Great, another secret crime I am guilty of without even having the fun of actually DOING the crime.

*Setac Astronomy* Running this show?

I don't whine about acronyms, but I do ask when I am clueless and/or unable to research/figure it out.

Toss a boyo a (likely stale and overcooked in this case) cookie?

Thanks,

Erus


OK read more and got more info but still would like the acronymspelled out and like Thundar, any link or info to follow?

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This incident is proof that the founding fathers were correct; standing armies are a threat to liberty.

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Ohio Revised Code
5503.10 Law enforcement automated data system.

There is hereby created in the department of public safety, division of state highway patrol, a program for administering and operating a law enforcement automated data system, to be known as LEADS, providing computerized data and communications to the various criminal justice agencies of the state. The program shall be administered by the superintendent of the state highway patrol, who may employ such persons as are necessary to carry out the purposes of this section. The superintendent shall adopt rules under Chapter 119. of the Revised Code establishing fees and guidelines for the operation of and participation in the LEADS program. These rules shall include criteria for granting and restricting access to information maintained in LEADS.

The superintendent shall appoint a steering committee to advise him in the operation of the law enforcement automated data system, comprised of persons who are representative of the criminal justice agencies in Ohio that use the system. The superintendent or his designee shall be chairman of the committee.

Effective Date: 11-12-1992


Also see ORC 2923.125 Look for "Law enforcement automated data system"

ORC 2923.129 Immunity.

(D) Law enforcement agencies may use the information a sheriff makes available through the use of the law enforcement automated data system pursuant to division (H) of section 2923.125 or division (B)(2) or (D) of section 2923.1213 of the Revised Code for law enforcement purposes only. The information is confidential and is not a public record. A person who releases or otherwise disseminates this information obtained through the law enforcement automated data system in a manner not described in this division is guilty of a violation of section 2913.04 of the Revised Code.

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Johnny Law wrote:

I'm not sure about Colorado, but in Wa. this type of call would initially be a "welfare check" (not to be confused with welfare recipients receiving their payment). Typically this would have been comprised of 2 Officers going to the residence and conducting a quick investigation of the circumstances.

This is usually done at the request of someone (can be anyone) who called and voiced a concern for the safety or well being of minors in a given residence. This gives Police the right to go inside any residence in question (without a warrant, as it is exigent circumstances) and make sure that the children are safe, properly nourished, and Check them for any signs of abuse.

In the Co. case it was based on medical personnnel's complaint that the child may have been seriously injured (bumped head) and needed to beseen by a hospital. A parent refusing to provide proper medicalcare for a child could be viewed as neglect. This factmade this call a higher priority than a welfare check. The Judge also issued a writ of habeus corpus (seizure of a person) for the child.

Typically with a potentially serious head injury, it is highly recommended that the person be monitored in a hospital for 24 hours, as one canlose consciousness,and die.

The other factor was the threats or comments that the parent had previously made to the PD. this is what prompted the SWAT response.

I personally once overheard a gentleman talking at a local gun show to another man. He said that if he ever saw the Police coming up his driveway, he would shoot them all. I was able to discern his identity and address, and logged this info into a database for future reference.

As you can imagine,a response to his house would be far different than a typical one.What some may consider "loose talk", may betaken very seriously by others.

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What data base did you log this into. I believe law enforcement keeping such a database on citizens is illegal. Haven't we been through this before with the FBI spying on citizens and keeping files etc.

That chief in Colorado was trying to cover his butt. He couldn't cite one case where the father had made a threat. Alsoconstitutionalism is not illegal including the right to be secure in your home. There was absolutely no reason to kick in the door and run in with guns drawn. He had already let child services interview the kid. The cops kicked it in because they could. It is called abuse of power.

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OJohnny Law wrote:

color of law wrote:

Johnny Law wrote

It isn't about "big Brother" collecting info, it's about YOU showing society what you're made of. If you want to be thought of as an a.h., then all you have to do is act like one. If you want to be perceived as a reasonable, respectableperson, then your actions and comments will determine that. It is your freedom toinfluence how people view you.

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Good try, but it does not work. You think you are BIG BROTHER and you can enter anything you don't like what someone says into Big Brother's computer databank and start the ball rolling to distroy someones life just because you don't like what they say. Wher did you learn this underhanded stuff? Are you the guy that got picked on in school and now you are going to get even?

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Color of law,

I only enter pertinent officer safety info, and certainly am not out to ruin anyone's life. People do that to themselves.

There is no "start the ball rolling". All this info does is assist Officers in dealing with potential "problem children", as it is not used by anyone else for any purpose. I am not the one with a chip on my shoulder.

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So any LEO can view your record? I thought the system is monitored so someone can't simply enter names he went to HS with or is dealing with but only people for a legitmate reason.

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Johnny Law wrote:

vmathis12019 wrote:

So now being "rude and confrontational" and being a "constitutionalist" makes you enough of a threat to send in the SWAT team? I am a constitutionalist and have found myself needing to be rude and confrontational before! I hope a SWAT team doesn't kick down my door! This is absolutely ridiculous. I'm going to hold any more comments until I cool down a bit. This kind of stuff just boils my blood.

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ANYONE who makes threats or comments aboutdoing harm toPolice are damaging their reputation, and these comments will be noted.

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Translation; So you had better be watching over your shoulder even when talking to your friends because if we hear you making comments we don't like you will be dealt with. We have ears everywhere. And we will keep secretfiles on you. We don't care if they contain hearsay or rumor. We don't carewhat the source. It had just better not be something we don't like.

And we are supposed to be ok with that because you are the good guys right?Oh yea I almost forgot you are doing this to protect us. Yea ok thats better.

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Well done! Another one is turned-out.

I hope that this is a lesson for any that would adopt self-assigned attributes. Rather stand as a mere citizen with an equal only voice and be judged by your peers. "Speak-up though your voice shakes" (a local bumpersticker).

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$