Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Anti-liberty bills introduced by Delegate Jeff Frederick - err, Jackson Miller!! (VA)

  1. #1
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    UPDATE 2215 hours on 8 JAN 08: These bills are now shown to be introduced by Jackson Miller (R - Prince William County, Manasas, Manasas Park) - POC data: DelJMiller@house.state.va.us


    ---

    OK, so under Frederick's one-two punch, Virginia will become a "Stop & ID" police state, and the police will have discretion to arrest and strip search your wife at their discretion for a minor misdemeanor - like jaywalking, littering, or going 81 MPH in a 70 MPH zone:

    -

    1. "HB 435 Law-enforcement officer; penalty for failure to identify oneself when requested."

    2. "HB 436 Arrest or summons; charge for misdemeanor at discretion of law-enforcement officer."

    -

    Both bills are major infringements upon Americans' liberty and privacy. A custodial arrest gives police full power to search you and your property, while a summons does not.

    ACTION ITEM: If you are a constitutent or financial supporter of Delegate Jeff Frederick, contact him ASAP to withdraw these bills: jfrederick@va52.com, DelJFrederick@house.state.va.us

    Oh Heck - if you are living, working, or going to school in Virginia, contact him too!


  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Yorktown VA, ,
    Posts
    306

    Post imported post

    Delegate Frederick,



    I am appalled to learn of your bills:



    "HB 435 Law-enforcement officer; penalty for failure to identify oneself when requested."

    "HB 436 Arrest or summons; charge for misdemeanor at discretion of law-enforcement officer."






    Sir, we DO NOT LIVE IN East Germany of the 60’s!!! These bills you have submitted are an utter Disgrace; both bills are major infringements upon Americans' liberty and privacy!





    I would have never dreamed a fellow Republican could come up with such a Vile assault on the Constitution of America… HB 435 Turns our good Commonwealth into a Stop and ID Police STATE.. and makes a mockery of the 4th amendment of the Constitution. HB 436 Give the Police the discretion to ARREST and SEARCH for misdemeanor crimes.. like jaywalking, littering or Speeding!!! Also a DIRECT assault on the Bill of Rights.







    Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



    Fifth AmendmentDue process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain

    No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.









    I demand that you withdraw both bills immediately, I am not one of your constituents however I Work and Live in Virginia and have a say in what happens here.





    Write me back with your intentions.
    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Dumfries, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    243

    Post imported post

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?081+ful+HB435

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?081+ful+HB436

    Have been updated to reflect the sponsor; Patron-- Miller, J.H.

    I would encourge anyone to contact thier own delegates and have these bills killed.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    236

    Post imported post

    LIS list the patron of both these bills as Jackson Miller

    HB 435
    HB 436

    it's sad to see these type of bills raise their head again. Sadly though he is PWC



  5. #5
    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    1,896

    Post imported post

    I cannot respond from work without breaking federal law, but these guys are going to hear from me at noon!

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,043

    Post imported post

    coltcarrier wrote:
    LIS list the patron of both these bills as Jackson Miller

    HB 435
    HB 436

    it's sad to see these type of bills raise their head again. Sadly though he is PWC
    That is so bizarre! I checked LIS, literally, not 10 minutes ago and Frederick was the sponsor of HB435.

    I must admit, after having met Delegate Miller on multiple occassions, it doesn't surprise me that he would patron these bills. Miller is my delegate and I have never declined a chance to tell him what I think about bills being considered in the legislature.

    I will be going through all of the introduced bills over the next week or so and preparing my thoughts on them so that when I get down to Richmond this month, I can let them know where I expect them to stand.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Yorktown VA, ,
    Posts
    306

    Post imported post


    Jeff's Reply...

    Sir --

    Neither of these bills are mine. The clerk's office mistakenly attributed them to me (to date, I've only filed 3 bills and one resolution, but that will change later today). You should see my name removed from them shortly. I don't know who is the chief patron of these bills, but I imagine that the bill numbers will remain the same, so you can contact the patron with your concerns when things are corrected.

    -JMF.

    *'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'

    Jeffrey M. Frederick

    House of Delegates | Fifty-Second District Commonwealth of Virginia

    http://va52.com

    delegate@va52.com





    I have sent my above nastygram to the correct patron.


    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    842

    Post imported post

    Miller introduced similar legislation last year:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...071+sum+HB2943

    That bill made it through the house by a vote of 74 to 23 and then died in a senate committee. If your delegate voted for this last year, you need to contact him and tell him not to vote for it again!!!

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,043

    Post imported post

    TEX1N wrote:
    Miller introduced similar legislation last year:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...071+sum+HB2943

    That bill made it through the house by a vote of 74 to 23 and then died in a senate committee. If your delegate voted for this last year, you need to contact him and tell him not to vote for it again!!!
    I spoke with Jackson Miller on one occassion last year [when he came to my home and I answered the door with my openly carried sidearm] and he mentioned this bill being the cause of some tension between him and VCDL. According to him, VCDL told him that if he did not withdraw the bill and/or his support for it, they would not endorse him. He later said in a debate for the last elections that he was seeking an endorsement from a gun-rights group, but declined to name them. I suspect it was VCDL. To my knowledge, VCDL did not endorse his candidacy in the latest election.

    I knew Miller was going to re-introduce the bill again this year, despite him knowing that many of his constituents do not support it. Just like he will not vote for a complete repeal of the Albo Abuser Fees. He will vote in favor of "fixing" the fees, but not repealing them despite the strong constituent opposition to it.

    Jackson Miller is a good guy and I believe his intentions are well placed. However, I think his methodology leaves something to be desired. He also has a background in law enforcement and still works part-time with the Prince William County PD as a patrol office. Before being elected to the house of delegates, he was also a Manassas City Councilman.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Henrico County ,
    Posts
    537

    Post imported post

    I was at the Senate committee hearing last year when this bill was discussed. If it wasn't for the chairman, the bill would not have been so swiftly dismissed. He gave those who spoke in favor of the bill a mini-civics and history lesson that was somewhat dismissive in tone, and referenced his stint as an LEO (in the 1970's, if I recall correctly). I spoke, and apparently really angered some of the attendees. A beefy man who had spoke in favor of the bill (I believe he was a Commonwealths Attorney) confronted me afterwards and we exchanged a few words.

    Some notes:

    1.) Democrats now control this committee, so the chairman who controlled the discussion no longer does

    2.)Some folks indicated this wasbill was actuallyabout illegal immigration,and finding ways togive LEO's more options when interacting with illegal imigrants who had committed crimes.

    See you at Lobby Day!

  11. #11
    Regular Member vermonter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    341

    Post imported post

    HERE IS THE LETTER I SENT>>>>

    Dear Sir,

    I am not a resident of Virginia, but I am a former Law Enforcement Officer. With many years experience under my belt I have had the opportunity to see the bully mentality of the average policeman up close. I would not have trusted many of my former colleagues with such broad authority. Although this may seem to be a good thing when dealing with inner citygang-banging thugs, I know from experience that it will be applied to the housewife who is having a bad day and uses the wrong "tone" while pulled over for a speeding ticket. Please use your power wisely to keep the police officer in check, rather than expanding his ability to abuse his perceived power!

    Below is a link to an article showing the trend in my home state to avoid abuses.
    http://www.flexyourrights.org/2007_03_27_4th_amendment_victories_in_state_courts

    Sincerely,

    XXXX XXXXXX

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    89

    Post imported post

    Such fanfare to denounce Frederick... Has the same amount of effort gone into clearing him of these accusations?

  13. #13
    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dumfries, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,090

    Post imported post

    TheApostle wrote:
    Such fanfare to denounce Frederick... Has the same amount of effort gone into clearing him of these accusations?

    When I found out it was a mistake, I wrote a message telling him I'm glad it was a mistake and asking that if it does make it to the floor that it would not have his support.


    I also tried to be nice in the original message:

    Delegate Frederick,



    Would you explain the history, thought, and reasoning for amendingHB 435?



    I have serious concerns about Law Enforcement's abuse of a law allowing them to stop and demand identification based completely on a subjective decision.



    The currentwording of the law allows for arrest and detainment when a person is suspected "of a crime". Safety issues cannot be resolved with identification of people who are not suspected "of a crime". This amendment, could would not only lead to denying my fourth and fifth amendment rights, but provide a toolfor law enforcement intimidation.



    I look forward to hearing your response.



    Thank you.



  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    89

    Post imported post



    All is well. I was just hoping he didn't take it personal!

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Dumfries, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    243

    Post imported post

    TheApostle wrote:


    All is well. I was just hoping he didn't take it personal!
    When I talked to his aide you could tell that he had already recieved a number of phone calls and already knew what the issue was. He was very professional. So, it seems that within a very short time span the problem was corrected and he was able to hear from a few of his constituents who opposed the bill.

    I think everything worked out for the best.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Gloucester Point, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    899

    Post imported post

    TEX1N wrote:
    Miller introduced similar legislation last year:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...071+sum+HB2943

    That bill made it through the house by a vote of 74 to 23 and then died in a senate committee. If your delegate voted for this last year, you need to contact him and tell him not to vote for it again!!!

    Can somebody translate this into non-politician speak for me (from Texn1's link)?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "YEAS--Abbitt, Albo, Armstrong, Athey, Barlow, Bell, Bowling, Bulova, Byron, Callahan, Carrico, Cline, Cosgrove, Cox, Crockett-Stark, Dance, Dudley, Fralin, Frederick, Gear, Gilbert, Griffith, Hall, Hamilton, Hargrove, Hogan, Howell, A.T., Hurt, Iaquinto, Ingram, Janis, Joannou, Jones, S.C., Kilgore, Landes, Lewis, Lingamfelter, Lohr, Marsden, Marshall, D.W., Marshall, R.G., May, McQuigg, Miller, J.H., Miller, P.J., Moran, Morgan, Nixon, Nutter, O'Bannon, Oder, Orrock, Peace, Phillips, Purkey, Putney, Rapp, Reid, Rust, Saxman, Scott, E.T., Shannon, Sherwood, Sickles, Suit, Tata, Valentine, Waddell, Wardrup, Ware, R.L., Welch, Wittman, Wright, Mr. Speaker--74.

    NAYS--Alexander, Amundson, BaCote, Brink, Caputo, Cole, Ebbin, Eisenberg, Englin, Hull, McClellan, McEachin, Melvin, Plum, Poisson, Scott, J.M., Shuler, Spruill, Toscano, Tyler, Ward, Ware, O., Watts--23.

    ABSTENTIONS--0.

    NOT VOTING--Hugo, Johnson, Jones, D.C.--3.

    Delegate Morgan recorded as yea. Intended to vote nay.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Morgan is my rep. Why would he be recorded as yea if he intented to vote nay??? Is this them admitting a typo?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •