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Thread: Brady defines assault vs sporting

  1. #1
    State Researcher .40 Cal's Avatar
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    Disclosure: I know some of us have seen this before, but for those of you that haven't, I give you this...





    Q: What is the difference between semi-automatic hunting rifles and semi-automatic assault weapons?

    A: Sporting rifles and assault weapons are two distinct classes of firearms. While semi-automatic hunting rifles are designed to be fired from the shoulder and depend upon the accuracy of a precisely aimed projectile, semi-automatic assault weapons are designed to maximize lethal effects through a rapid rate of fire. Assault weapons are designed to be spray-fired from the hip, and because of their design, a shooter can maintain control of the weapon even while firing many rounds in rapid succession.

    Opponents of the ban argue that such weapons only "look scary." However, because they were designed for military purposes, assault weapons are equipped with combat hardware, such as silencers, folding stocks and bayonets, which are not found on sporting guns. Assault weapons are also designed for rapid-fire and many come equipped with large ammunition magazines allowing 50 more bullets to be fired without reloading. So there is a good reason why these features on high-powered weapons should frighten the public.

    Assault weapons are commonly equipped with some or all of the following combat features:

    • A large-capacity ammunition magazine, enabling the shooter to continuously fire dozens of rounds without reloading. Standard hunting rifles are usually equipped with no more than 3 or 4-shot magazines.
    • A folding stock on a rifle or shotgun, which sacrifices accuracy for concealability and for mobility in close combat.
    • A pistol grip on a rifle or shotgun, which facilitates firing from the hip, allowing the shooter to spray-fire the weapon. A pistol grip also helps the shooter stabilize the firearm during rapid fire and makes it easier to shoot assault rifles one-handed.
    • A barrel shroud, which is designed to cool the barrel so the firearm can shoot many rounds in rapid succession without overheating. It also allows the shooter to grasp the barrel area to stabilize the weapon, without incurring serious burns, during rapid fire.
    • A threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, which serves no useful sporting purpose. The flash suppressor allows the shooter to remain concealed when shooting at night, an advantage in combat but unnecessary for hunting or sporting purposes. In addition, the flash suppressor is useful for providing stability during rapid fire, helping the shooter maintain control of the firearm.
    • A threaded barrel designed to accommodate a silencer, which is useful to assassins but clearly has no purpose for sportsmen. Silencers are illegal so there is no legitimate purpose for making it possible to put a silencer on a weapon.
    • A barrel mount designed to accommodate a bayonet, which obviously serves no sporting purpose.
    True or false: All text in red is __________

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    Well, this much of, any way, is a lie by someone who has never 'fired from the hip' while using a pistol grip.

    .40 Cal wrote:
    • A pistol grip on a rifle or shotgun, which facilitates firing from the hip, allowing the shooter to spray-fire the weapon.

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    This is plainly ********* in its entirety. The salient feature of a proper assault weapon is a select-fire switch, notably absent on civilian semi-autos of any description. Duh. And who would bother trying to "silence" a supersonic rifle round anyway? Idiots...

    -ljp

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    It's kind of sad. If they knew anything about firearms they could at least make legitimate attempts at saying how some of those things are evil. But it's like they don't even try.

    They could at least say how a barrel shroud can allow better control of the weapon while "firing from the hip," or something. Of course, if firing from the hip is so great and such a military feature, why can't I think of a single army in the world that does it? I digress.

    They could at least take the time to learn about something they oppose so vehemently.

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    Well, putting a suppressor on a supersonic weapon still has uses. It still reduces the sound slightly, and increases the velocity of the projectile... but.. yeah :P Do people even call them 'silencers' still? I thought 'suppressor' was the correct term since they don't really make any rifle 'silent'.

    My favorite is the pistol grip making it easier to fire from the hip. Um, I tried this once and found that rifles without pistol grips were easier to hip fire. The grip gets in the way....

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    Legba wrote:
    This is plainly ********* in its entirety. The salient feature of a proper assault weapon is a select-fire switch, notably absent on civilian semi-autos of any description. Duh. And who would bother trying to "silence" a supersonic rifle round anyway? Idiots...
    Not as useless as you might think; You as the shooterdo get some noise reduction benefit from it, but more importantlyit masks where the shot came from. You cannot silence a sonic boom. You can howeversilence the report of the rifle, which travels directly outward from the rifle's muzzle and, in the absence of echoing surfaces, is easy to pinpoint. What's left is a V-shaped shock wave caused by the moving bullet, which enters your ears from a different angle than the rifle's report would be, implying to your brain thatit came from a different direction. The misdirection would only be useful against other humans, but despite thatyou can reduce the muzzle report of a rifle round even if you cannot eliminate the sound of the shot, which is beneficial to a hunter.

    I totally agree however that this definition is *********.

    - The BAR,one of the first "assault rifle" designs ("Browning Assault Rifle" :quirky), had no pistol grip and was designed to be fired from the shoulder.In fact, a pistol grip assists the shooter when firing from the shoulder and is detrimental to firing from the hip as the angle facilitates holding the weapon along the shooter's line of sight.A weapon with a stock, as most assault rifles have, indicates a design decision to fire the weapon from the shoulder.

    - A collapsible or foldingstock allows the weapon to be compact; yes that's a good thing for soldiers operating in limited space but it's also good for a backpacking hunter or sport shooter,a stand hunter climbing trees,or in home defense situations where a long arm couldn't be easily maneuvered around corners and through doorways.

    - Standard hunting rifle designscan oftenhave5-7round internal magazines or far more than that in an external, and still maintain what the Bradys would call "a sport rifle styling".

    - A hunter has VERY good reason to remain concealed at night and to cover muzzle flash; game animals are smarter than most Bradys and will flee and stay away from bright flashes, and if hunting at night you're trying to keep your night vision.

    - Silencers, flash suppressors and muzzle brakesare not illegal; they require a $200 tax/fee to the ATF but are perfectly legal to own. And when has a flash suppressor or muzzle brake ever significantly reduced recoil? the only thing that would work there is a compensating port, found mostly on handguns and sporting shotguns and very rarely on military-design weapons as the vent flash obscures the shooter's line of sight.

    - I don't know about you, but I'd be hard-pressed to fire a rifle-caliber weapon or even amachine pistolone-handed. The handgun is the only weapon designed to be fired one-handed, and even then a two-handed stance is preferable. A pistol grip won't help, and in fact can hinder such an effort as it increases the barrel axis of a very powerful weapon.

    - A barrel shroud's primary purpose is to protect the barrel from incidental damage that is inevitablewhile climbing, hiking orcrawling on rocky or forested terrain, or any number of activities common to both soldiers and hunters. The shroud can be bent and dented until unrecognizeable and the gun will still fire accurately, and the shroud can be replaced at far less cost than the barrel. A barrel that is too hot to touch is the result of sustained rapid fire on a level that civilian semi-automatic weapons can rarely achieve, and weapons designed so that the shooter can hold the barrel generally have forends, NOT barrel shrouds.

    - A gun owner is not responsible for the sentiments of others. Many think that "assault weapons", meaning military-design rifles, submachine guns and machine pistols, are "scary". The same can be said of any firearm, because a gun is a toolwhose primary purpose is todestroy its target. That sentiment however does not and cannot take into account the shooter's purpose in destroying said target. Punching paper with a Tec-9 is harmless. A home invasion stopped witha Bushmaster is self-defense. And hunting humans in a mall with a 10/22 is murder.

    Of course, all of those points of contention, to be accepted, require the other party to concede at leastthat a civilian should be allowed to own a firearm. The Bradys don't; ideally firearms of any kind would not exist in American society. "Assault weapons" are just a brick in the wall.

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Assault weapons are designed to be spray-fired from the hip
    Hmmmm. My AR-15 is definately not an assault rifle then. It has a buttstock, therefore, is designed to fire from the shoulder.

    It also has sights on it. I'm not too clear on how I'm supposed to use these sights when firing from the hip. It must be designed to fire from the shoulder then.

    Since my AR-15 is clearly designed to fire from the shoulder, it is plainly not an assault rifle.
    A barrel shroud, which is designed to cool the barrel so the firearm can shoot many rounds in rapid succession without overheating.

    Since anythingbetween the actual barrel and the air surrounding it(such as a shroud) will obstruct airflow, How does this cool the barrel? I thought shrouds merely acted as a guard to prevent the shooter from burning themself? Evidently, these idiots desire people to be injured while shooting. Isn't this promoting UNSAFE FIREARM HANDLING?

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    Silencers are illegal so there is no legitimate purpose for making it possible to put a silencer on a weapon.

    Since when are they illegal??? cause i see people at the range with them all the time...and they are for sale in the stores....and all this in Connecticut...haha

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    Superlite27 wrote:
    Since anythingbetween the actual barrel and the air surrounding it (such as a shroud) will obstruct airflow, How does this cool the barrel? I thought shrouds merely acted as a guard to prevent the shooter from burning themself? Evidently, these idiots desire people to be injured while shooting. Isn't this promoting UNSAFE FIREARM HANDLING?

    No, it's promoting a ban on weapons who require them for safe operation.

    Some barrel shrounds can be thought of as acting as heatsinks. The shroud contacts the barrel, and heat is conducted out of the barrel and into the shroud. This increases the volume of metal holding heat, reducing the temperature increase caused by each successive ignition, and increases the surface area from which heat can be convected. In this way the barrel shroud can be thought of as helping cool the weapon. Gripping such a shroud after firing a couple hundred rounds would be no less painful than gripping the barrel itself.

    Either way it's BS. Show me a weaponon whichthe drilled-grid sheet metalbarrel shroud is commonand I'll show you a weapon designed to be held some other way than by gripping that shroud.

    - M60 - designed to be fired using the bipod, the shoulder strap or from the shoulder, and incorporates a foregrip.

    - Tec-9 - designed to be stabilized by gripping the magazine and the front of the receiver, or to be held much like a pistol.

    - Uzi and similar - the barrel shroud is on a barrel extension that is itselfan unneededaccessory of the weapon, and as such all of these weapons have some other way to stabilize the weapon two-handed. The UZI and similar incorporate a horizontal foregrip. The Mac-10 and similar incorporate a strap that is held similar to a vertical foregrip.

    The barrel cover of an M16 and related designs is technically a shroud, but is designed specifically to also be a foregrip similar to any hunting rifle. The only difference is that it is not integrated into the frame. The drilled-metaltype thatis so "scary"is not designed to be a grip.


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    Flash suppressors and muzzle breaks are fully legal - not NFAstuff. Suppressor/silencers do require registration, paying of the transfer tax, fingerprints, pictures, blah, blah to legally acquire (and even then onlyfrom 1986 and earlier registered stock). I admit they would reduce the report, but I've never seen anyone bother with one on a proper rifle. They'd be much handier on a submachinegun, say.

    -ljp

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    I used to shoot a Remington .17 Remington at 5050 fps(!) and wondered at the effect of a supressor on 5x sonic.

    For the youngsters among us, that was the original stock load - 5050 fps.

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    I sent this email to the Brady Campaign:

    To whom it may concern:

    I came across some incorrect information on your web site and would like to help you update same. Please reference your FAQ's about assault weapons. Here is a link with the correct facts.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...118448#p118448

    I hope this helps.

    Your concerned Citizen,

    Luis G. Gonzalez

    I do hope they update their web site, as I am sure they are a group concerned with disseminating the truth about guns, gun ownership, and the evil that these entail.

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    .40 Cal wrote:
    True or false: All text in red is __________
    What is ********?

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    I don't ever recall anything in the constitution saying arms were for 'hunting or sporting purposes'. I think it said something about liberty. Oh yeah, new idea for these fuckbags.

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    .40 Cal wrote:
    Disclosure: I know some of us have seen this before, but for those of you that haven't, I give you this...





    Q: What is the difference between semi-automatic hunting rifles and semi-automatic assault weapons?

    A: Sporting rifles and assault weapons are two distinct classes of firearms. While semi-automatic hunting rifles are designed to be fired from the shoulder and depend upon the accuracy of a precisely aimed projectile, semi-automatic assault weapons are designed to maximize lethal effects through a rapid rate of fire. Assault weapons are designed to be spray-fired from the hip, and because of their design, a shooter can maintain control of the weapon even while firing many rounds in rapid succession.

    Opponents of the ban argue that such weapons only "look scary." However, because they were designed for military purposes, assault weapons are equipped with combat hardware, such as silencers, folding stocks and bayonets, which are not found on sporting guns. Assault weapons are also designed for rapid-fire and many come equipped with large ammunition magazines allowing 50 more bullets to be fired without reloading. So there is a good reason why these features on high-powered weapons should frighten the public.

    Assault weapons are commonly equipped with some or all of the following combat features:

    • A large-capacity ammunition magazine, enabling the shooter to continuously fire dozens of rounds without reloading. Standard hunting rifles are usually equipped with no more than 3 or 4-shot magazines.
    • A folding stock on a rifle or shotgun, which sacrifices accuracy for concealability and for mobility in close combat.
    • A pistol grip on a rifle or shotgun, which facilitates firing from the hip, allowing the shooter to spray-fire the weapon. A pistol grip also helps the shooter stabilize the firearm during rapid fire and makes it easier to shoot assault rifles one-handed.
    • A barrel shroud, which is designed to cool the barrel so the firearm can shoot many rounds in rapid succession without overheating. It also allows the shooter to grasp the barrel area to stabilize the weapon, without incurring serious burns, during rapid fire.
    • A threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, which serves no useful sporting purpose. The flash suppressor allows the shooter to remain concealed when shooting at night, an advantage in combat but unnecessary for hunting or sporting purposes. In addition, the flash suppressor is useful for providing stability during rapid fire, helping the shooter maintain control of the firearm.
    • A threaded barrel designed to accommodate a silencer, which is useful to assassins but clearly has no purpose for sportsmen. Silencers are illegal so there is no legitimate purpose for making it possible to put a silencer on a weapon.
    • A barrel mount designed to accommodate a bayonet, which obviously serves no sporting purpose.
    True or false: All text in red is __________
    Link?

    All of this appears to be written by someone who knows enough about firearms to know he is lying like a sack of s***.

    I will not attempt to communicate or reason with such people unless and until they stop lying. The ones we need to communicate with are the people in their target audience, who are still sitting on the fence.

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    I wonder if anyone's told the Brady campaign that there's a difference between semi-automatic and automatic guns. Automatic guns can "spray", semi-automatics cannot "spray". If they do "spray", they can only do so as quickly as the shooter can pull the trigger.

    But I doubt they're interested in the facts.

    I also wonder what the Brady campaign's stake is in banning "assault weapons". Do they truly want to ban guns they feel are more likely to be used in crimes, or do they realize that passing a new AWB will give an unlawful authority the ability to determine arbitrarily what guns can be banned? Or both?

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    I also wonder what the Brady campaign's stake is in banning "assault weapons". Do they truly want to ban guns they feel are more likely to be used in crimes, or do they realize that passing a new AWB will give an unlawful authority the ability to determine arbitrarily what guns can be banned? Or both?
    They want all guns banned and confiscated. They just know that isn't going to fly. So called "assault weapons" are used in less than 1% of crimes from all DOJ stats I have ever seen. This is simply about finding a way to start banning guns somewhere and then continuing once people get use to the idea. Worked in Europe and Australia. Obviously, in the few years since the prior AWB expired, we haven't seen a break down of law and order or a rampant crime rate. DOJ says the AWB had no effect on crime and crime rates have continued to decline most places since the AWB expired clearly indicating that the Brady Bunch's intent is not to prevent crime or save lives but to confiscate and ban firearms.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    The list is filled with inaccurate information.

    Silencers are NOT illegal. They are controlled by the ATF and only a few states actually prohibit them.

    But it is possible for any personto legally own one.

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