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Thread: Places NOT allowed to carry

  1. #1
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    of all the places NOT allowed to oc or cc which is the one place you think is most important to carry. I.e schools, parks, federal buildings, etc.

    MY personal opinion is I would like to carry at my campus university.

    First, think of all the places you hear in the news of someone doing a school shooting, late night assaults in the parking lot of a campus, etc. There is more of a chance of you needing a weapon to defend yourself at MOST schools or universities than some convienent store.

    Secondly, if im sitting in my classroom or walking through campus to class and some crazy decides to raise hell to say the least I'm suppose to what? Run for cover in an open courtyard? Put a desk behind a WOODEN DOOR? Yell at the assaliant not to come in and do harm? Were suppose to wait at least 5 min for campus police to respond when the entire VT tragedy was over in minutes?

    Thirdly, if someone wants to shoot up a school would they take the time to get a CC permit, or OC in class? NO! they would just go do it, be realistic.

    Four, if your a "Cho" and you decided this world is too much and you want to take as many people as you can with you are you going to pick a place where you know there might be resistance or a place where YOU KNOW laws prevent people to defend themselfs? HELLO!?!?!?

    And finally, fifth, opposers say they "don't feel comforatable" sitting and learning in class while knowing people around them are armed CC or OC. My final response is when I turn on the TV and read news reports that it seems like its an average of about once a week there is a school shooting, or someone caught before it happens, robberies on campus, serious assaults on campus, my response to you students who say you dont feel comforatable at school knowing there are people carrying weapons I say to you kind sir is "I don't feel comforatable learning in a class knowing there are so many helpless and defenseless people in one place. As a matter of fact, I often find myself distracted in class thinking 'what if it happend here and now' or 'what would I do if it was to go down' (I constantly try to prepare myself for these situtations however unlikely they are to happen specifically to me) but I then realize the answer, I could do nothing."

    Make a desperate lunge at the attacker with my 3-4 inch blade knife? How does that saying go? "don't bring a knife to a gun fight?" I dont know about any other students opinions on here, but I sure as hell would feel a LOT safer knowing there are armed people around me who could have possibly held V Tech to less than a handfull instead of 30+.

    Everyday I go to class I feel uncomforatable constantly looking over my shoulder, call me paranoid, but here in America it seems I have every right to be. But when I walk from my car to class, sit at my desk and listen to the teacher lecture I should not have to feel like I am playing russian roulette with my life.

    What do you guys think is the most important place to carry where your forbidden by law?

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    cmg266 wrote:
    What do you guys think is the most important place to carry where your forbidden by law?
    The most important place to carry is wherever you are.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    cmg266 wrote:
    And finally, fifth, opposers say they "don't feel comforatable" sitting and learning in class while knowing people around them are armed CC or OC.
    My response to them would be to grow up! I vividly remember the first time I picked up a gun the owner of which had purchased for the specific purpose of shooting a BG, ie self-defense. It was like an electric shock went through me. I had to set it back down it was so uncomfortable holding it. The difference between myself and your "opposer" is that I recognized this as being emotionaly immature. The rare but when necessary need to kill someone is REALITY. Grow up and get used to it.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    cmg266 wrote:
    MY personal opinion is I would like to carry at my campus university.
    I forgot to ask where you go to school?

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    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    Carry <EVERYWHERE>, don't ask, don't TELL <ANYONE, EVER>, and COVER Well.

    The only place you can't is where they have Metal detectors and search everyone, every time they enter.

    Yup... I practice what I preach...


    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    What do you guys think is the most important place to carry where your forbidden by law?
    I would never adovate breaking the law.
    It paints us as law breakers and gives others the impression we are above the law.

    Some laws are just plan stupid and illegal, in my opinion.


    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Agent19 wrote:
    What do you guys think is the most important place to carry where your forbidden by law?
    I would never adovate breaking the law.
    It paints us as law breakers and gives others the impression we are above the law.

    Some laws are just plan stupid and illegal, in my opinion.
    Agreed...

    There are many laws that are unnecessary, are too prohibitive, or just do not make any sense. But you cannot call yourself a law abiding citizen with a firearm if you break them.

    We do not get to pick and choose the laws we want to follow. Like it or not... you are a criminal if you have been knowingly breaking them.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Agreed...

    There are many laws that are unnecessary, are too prohibitive, or just do not make any sense. But you cannot call yourself a law abiding citizen with a firearm if you break them.

    We do not get to pick and choose the laws we want to follow. Like it or not... you are a criminal if you have been knowingly breaking them.
    If firearms are not outlawed on college property, but the college will expel you if found out you are doing so, it isn't illegal, it is just gambling your college education.

    Trying to carry into a court house, not quite the best idea

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    hsmith wrote:
    If firearms are not outlawed on college property, but the college will expel you if found out you are doing so, it isn't illegal, it is just gambling your college education.
    Which if it's not illegal sounds like it's against preemption to ban it if you're talking about a state college. I'm not sure of the principles involved for staff/students/employees that allows them to ban weapons for these people and not unaffiliated state residents. Although supposedly even though I can walk around campus the state AG's opinion is that they can ban me from walking inside a building. Makes no sense.



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    Freeflight wrote:
    Carry <EVERYWHERE>, don't ask, don't TELL <ANYONE, EVER>, and COVER Well.

    The only place you can't is where they have Metal detectors and search everyone, every time they enter.

    Yup... I practice what I preach...


    Guys, I don't think of myself as a "Criminal" because I ignore Illegal laws.. Heck, I don't even SPEED, never drink/drive, never do drugs, fully stop at stopsigns etc.....

    I really Believe that the 2nd is all the law there is .Period.

    ButI will say this... Don't do as I advise... I fully know and have weighed the consequences of my choices and have made my decision.. You may not be ready,

    (IE if they Catch you witha gun in classthey most likely will expel you..(Jerks)) and you will make National News as the SHEEP BAAAAAHH BAAAHHHH away about you all over the country...

    Anyway...

    Carry Often...



    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

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    hsmith wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Agreed...

    There are many laws that are unnecessary, are too prohibitive, or just do not make any sense. But you cannot call yourself a law abiding citizen with a firearm if you break them.

    We do not get to pick and choose the laws we want to follow. Like it or not... you are a criminal if you have been knowingly breaking them.
    If firearms are not outlawed on college property, but the college will expel you if found out you are doing so, it isn't illegal, it is just gambling your college education.

    Trying to carry into a court house, not quite the best idea
    Ah, Valid point!

    In any case... you know the rules.. it is your gamble.

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    Carry Often...
    Agree!

    I have just recently started OC'ing in public. While I am not at the level of OC'ing where I carry everywhere I go, I am slowly expanding that as I feel more comfortable. It can be quite overwhelming at first, but I agree that it is an "immature" response that has to be overcome. Practice will eat that away. But I appreciate those who carry the flag for the rest of us by constantly pushing the boundaries.

    As with all rights granted by the consitution, someone has to test the boundaries. At the very least it reminds people of the rights they have been granted and exposes laws that have been enacted to restrict such freedoms. Apathy is the worst enemy to our rights.

    I for one would like to see OC'ing allowed on campuses. Criminals will thrive where they know their victims cannot defend themselves. LEO typically, is not a protection service, it is a deterant and investigation service. I say this because LEO cannot be everywhere and few criminals will commit crimes in from of a LEO. It is up to the individual to protect theirself (and others if possible) when a crime occurs.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Agent19 wrote:
    What do you guys think is the most important place to carry where your forbidden by law?
    I would never adovate breaking the law.
    It paints us as law breakers and gives others the impression we are above the law.

    Some laws are just plan stupid and illegal, in my opinion.
    Agreed...

    There are many laws that are unnecessary, are too prohibitive, or just do not make any sense. But you cannot call yourself a law abiding citizen with a firearm if you break them.

    We do not get to pick and choose the laws we want to follow. Like it or not... you are a criminal if you have been knowingly breaking them.
    Very True

    DC

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    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    DeadCenter wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Agent19 wrote:
    What do you guys think is the most important place to carry where your forbidden by law?
    I would never adovate breaking the law.
    It paints us as law breakers and gives others the impression we are above the law.

    Some laws are just plan stupid and illegal, in my opinion.
    Agreed...

    There are many laws that are unnecessary, are too prohibitive, or just do not make any sense. But you cannot call yourself a law abiding citizen with a firearm if you break them.

    We do not get to pick and choose the laws we want to follow. Like it or not... you are a criminal if you have been knowingly breaking them.
    Very True

    DC

    I disagree with you... I hate to get real graphic here... but

    Do any of you enjoy Oral Sex? (Please don't Answer...!!!:what::shock:...perverts...:P)

    I make this point because IT IS ILLEGAL in Virginia!!! So based on your thinking... if you enjoy oral sex with your Wife in the privacy of your home, its against the law therefore...you cannot call yourself a law abiding citizen if you break them.

    http://www.journalism.sfsu.edu/flux/gSpot/sexLaw.html

    ...And it (oral sex)is not a guaranteed right like keeping and bearing arms is...


    We do not get to pick and choose the laws we want to follow. Like it or not... you are a criminal if you have been knowingly breaking them (Back atcha Leo )
    Have a nice day fellow criminals...

    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

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    cmg266 wrote:
    but I sure as hell would feel a LOT safer knowing there are armed people around me who could have possibly held V Tech to less than a handfull instead of 30+.
    Makes me glad I go to Blue Ridge. CC is available there!
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Agent19 wrote:
    What do you guys think is the most important place to carry where your forbidden by law?
    I would never adovate breaking the law.
    It paints us as law breakers and gives others the impression we are above the law.

    Some laws are just plan stupid and illegal, in my opinion.
    Agreed...

    There are many laws that are unnecessary, are too prohibitive, or just do not make any sense. But you cannot call yourself a law abiding citizen with a firearm if you break them.

    We do not get to pick and choose the laws we want to follow. Like it or not... you are a criminal if you have been knowingly breaking them.

    I don't know if the original question implied carrying illegally. Maybe the purpose of the question was to determine where he should focus his energy on for getting the law changed. After all, it might be better to push for carry in specific areas one at a time.

    On that note, some would agree that it is indeed an intelligent, logical opinion that since the 2A guarantees our right to bear arms, any laws restricting that right are in fact unconstitutional. So, by carrying illegally, you're protecting yourself while accepting the fact that you may be the one to have to argue the legality of the law itself if you "get caught".

    A crime is an action that violates someone else's rights. It hurts someone else, whether it be physically, financially, or emotionally. A criminal is someone who chooses to hurt someone else, knowing full well the effect of their actions. What crime is being committed when someone carries, for their own protection, in an area that is technically off-limits under arguably unconstitutional laws?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that you can't argue the legality or constitutionality (is that a word? lol)of a current law unless you, yourself, have been charged with the crime associated with that law. So where does that leave us?

    (Note: Like others have said, I am not advocating breaking the law. I do think this is a topic worth discussing, however. Ihave, too, had to make the decision in the past, whether it was more important to protect myself, or not risk being charged with a crime. It's sad we have to make this decision in the first place.)


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    DreQo wrote:
    ....
    On that note, some would agree that it is indeed an intelligent, logical opinion that since the 2A guarantees our right to bear arms, any laws restricting that right are in fact unconstitutional. So, by carrying illegally, you're protecting yourself while accepting the fact that you may be the one to have to argue the legality of the law itself if you "get caught".

    A crime is an action that violates someone else's rights. It hurts someone else, whether it be physically, financially, or emotionally. A criminal is someone who chooses to hurt someone else, knowing full well the effect of their actions. What crime is being committed when someone carries, for their own protection, in an area that is technically off-limits under arguably unconstitutional laws?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that you can't argue the legality or constitutionality (is that a word? lol)of a current law unless you, yourself, have been charged with the crime associated with that law. So where does that leave us?

    (Note: Like others have said, I am not advocating breaking the law. I do think this is a topic worth discussing, however. Ihave, too, had to make the decision in the past, whether it was more important to protect myself, or not risk being charged with a crime. It's sad we have to make this decision in the first place.)
    I would agree that you would need have true intent to commit a crime. Some people do not know they are breaking the law and made an honest mistake.

    But then you have to consider.... how can this be exploited?

    Any criminal could simply say "So Sorry.. I did not know" and then go someplace else and do the same crime and hope that LEO did not show up again.

    As far asthe "right to bear arms..." this is in regards to the government and not the citizen infringing on those rights. The government cannot force the citizens to like firearms.

    It may not "hurt" anyone if yougo out armed with a firearmbut I am sure the MMM collective would be emotionally scared for life. They fear guns for their own reasons and they have the right to prohibit guns from being on property they own.

    I do not agree with the state prohibiting guns in areas where the citizens are allowed to come and go unrestricted.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Really wish some of you guys/gals would read and respond accordingly.
    I never called anyone a criminal and never said you shouldn't do anything.


    I stated "I don't advocate anyone breaking the law."

    As for what the OP meant.
    Quoted from "OP"
    What do you guys think is the most important place to carry where your forbidden by law?


    I believe the Supreme Court has cited those anti sodomy laws as unconstitutional.
    You can research for yourself.


    EDIT:
    Now we are way off topicand I'm done.
    Personally, I think this thread should have beendeleted after it was posted.


    Everyone have a nice day and no hard feelings.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    Agent19 wrote:
    Really wish some of you guys/gals would read and respond accordingly.
    I never called any one a criminal and never said you shouldn't do anything.


    I stated "I don't advocate anyone breaking the law."

    As for what the OP meant.
    Quoted from "OP"
    What do you guys think is the most important place to carry where your forbidden by law?


    I believe the Supreme Court has cited those anti sodomy laws as unconstitutional.
    Agent19, I read what you said and understood. Imeant to beresponding to LEO 229...


    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

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    yes, I don't want to carry illegally. I'm not sure, but I think its a felony charge to carry a firearm on campus. I go to northern VA CC, annandale. I just think its BS i have to feel like I am rolling the dice with my life just by going to class. And there isn't a damn thing I can legally do about it.

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    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    cmg266 wrote:
    yes, I don't want to carry illegally. I'm not sure, but I think its a felony charge to carry a firearm on campus. I go to northern VA CC, annandale. I just think its BS i have to feel like I am rolling the dice with my life just by going to class. And there isn't a damn thing I can legally do about it.
    Could you carry some MACE and KNIFE? of course theres the joke I heard about why does Bear poo smell like pepper? Because he used the pepper spray as seasoning as he ate the tourist.

    No bears on campus I know... but you see my point...
    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Freeflight wrote:
    why does Bear poo smell like pepper?

    Because he used the pepper spray as seasoning as he ate the tourist.
    Now that is funny
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Its NOT a felony charge to carry on a COLLEGE/UNIVERSITY campus in the Commonwealth of Virginia. If you are a student/faculty/staff of the public college/university and have a CCW and are caught, you may be subject to expulsion. As far as private universities go, you could be subject to both expulsion and a trespassing charge provided you don't leave the private property when directed by LE or someone with authority of the university/college (university official, etc). LE must be contacted by the university and a request must be made to remove the offender. As a general rule, per the AG ruling, public universities cannot outright ban carrying of weapons on campus by CCW holders who are NOT students. Another thing that seems to confuse people...you aren't subject to any VAC regarding colleges/universities unless you are a part of the university community which means student/faculty/staff. The AG ruling attempts to spell out that point because it seems lots of people can't understand the difference between statutory code and administrative code. Administrative code cannot supersede statutory code because Statutory code defines the limits of an administrative code's authority. Administrative codes are internal rules for particular agencies. Statutory code is law. That being said, unless you are a member of the particular agency in which the VAC section was written out for (employee, student, staff, faculty, etc) , it does NOT apply to you so don't sweat it. Hope this helps a little. Legalese can be very confusing for folks who are not members of the Bar.
    The felony charge (class 6) is reserved for carrying of firearms on elementary and secondary school property unless you fall into one of the stated exemptions and exceptions defined in 18.2-308.1.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    LRS76251 wrote:
    Its NOT a felony charge to carry on a COLLEGE/UNIVERSITY campus in the Commonwealth of Virginia.
    Except VCU...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Not even VCU unless you are a member of the VCU community. Please refer to rules for administrative code. This is a huge misconception and is clarified in the AG ruling. Since VCU is a public university, you are only subject to disciplinary action if you are a student/faculty/staff (university community). Its not a criminal offense and not even trespassing regardless of how much the school would like you to believe it is a trespassing violation. Another example of agencies not understanding the differences between their own rules and what the statutory limitations are for those rules. School rules and Administrative Code do NOT supercede Statutory law (VA Code 1950). As stated before, the Administrative Code is a list of agency regulations that are a guideline and are only applicable to those people for which the agency has control over (employees, students, etc). If you don't work for the agency the VAC section is spelled out for or governed by the specific regulations (health professionals, insurance agents, etc, etc) or aren't a student at a particular school the code is written for, then it does NOT apply to you.
    Preemption (15.2-915) law applies here for the general public.

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