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Thread: REAL ID in Virginia

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    This has happened in more than one state. Will Virginia assert her sovereignty, or capitulate to Federal mandates?

    If congress really thinks Federally approvedI.D. is necessary, then the Federal Government canissue the I.D. (Like that would ever happen.)
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    I don't know a whole lot about the Real ID act, but according to Time Magazine, Virginia's drivers licenses meet many of the requirements already.

    Most states currently check Social Security numbers and about half check immigration status. Some, like New York, Virginia, North Carolina and California, already have implemented many of the security measures envisioned in REAL ID.
    http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...702559,00.html

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    Hmm... I wonder if that happens if I will be required to show my "papers" when I travel from VA through WV, MD to PA to enter each state. I also wonder if that "federally mandated license" will indicate to any and all that I have a CHP, so if I were to be pulled over in the peoples' replublik of MD, the officer would be notified that I have a VA CHP and would request to search my vehicle to ensure that if I do have a firearm, that it's properly secured per MD laws for the whole 20 miles I drive through the state.

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    72Malibu wrote:
    Hmm... I wonder if that happens if I will be required to show my "papers" when I travel from VA through WV, MD to PA to enter each state. I also wonder if that "federally mandated license" will indicate to any and all that I have a CHP, so if I were to be pulled over in the peoples' replublik of MD, the officer would be notified that I have a VA CHP and would request to search my vehicle to ensure that if I do have a firearm, that it's properly secured per MD laws for the whole 20 miles I drive through the state.
    So if you are illegally transporting a weapon in Maryland.. you do not want to be caught?

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    I guess it did sound like I was saying that didn't it? Ha-ha! I avoid driving through MD unless I have to,and when I doI abide by their laws. I just wish criminals had the same way of thinking. Guess I just don't like the idea of being harassed when I'm not doing anything wrong.

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    72Malibu wrote:
    I guess it did sound like I was saying that didn't it? Ha-ha! I avoid driving through MD unless I have to,and when I doI abide by their laws. I just wish criminals had the same way of thinking. Guess I just don't like the idea of being harassed when I'm not doing anything wrong.
    Ya.. that is how it sounded.. I was pretty sure you did not mean it that way. :P

    Nobody wants to be harassed.. not even criminals.



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    LEO 229 wrote:
    72Malibu wrote:
    Hmm... I wonder if that happens if I will be required to show my "papers" when I travel from VA through WV, MD to PA to enter each state. I also wonder if that "federally mandated license" will indicate to any and all that I have a CHP, so if I were to be pulled over in the peoples' replublik of MD, the officer would be notified that I have a VA CHP and would request to search my vehicle to ensure that if I do have a firearm, that it's properly secured per MD laws for the whole 20 miles I drive through the state.
    So if you are illegally transporting a weapon in Maryland.. you do not want to be caught?
    72 -- you opened the door for that one.

    :P

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    Thundar wrote:
    This has happened in more than one state. Will Virginia assert her sovereignty, or capitulate to Federal mandates?

    If congress really thinks Federally approvedI.D. is necessary, then the Federal Government canissue the I.D. (Like that would ever happen.)
    I just read bush pushed the compliant deadline out.



    >>The Bush administration will announce today that states will have more than five additional years to comply with its controversial nationwide Real ID program, the second such delay in a year, people briefed on the plan said yesterday. <<

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011003971.html

    DC





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    Sen. Hanger has proposed a partial non-compliance with REAL ID at http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?081+sum+SB492; unfortunately, he appears to want to move forward witha mini-me home-ade version of REAL ID inside VA.

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    72Malibu wrote:
    Hmm... I wonder if that happens if I will be required to show my "papers" when I travel from VA through WV, MD to PA to enter each state. I also wonder if that "federally mandated license" will indicate to any and all that I have a CHP, so if I were to be pulled over in the peoples' replublik of MD, the officer would be notified that I have a VA CHP and would request to search my vehicle to ensure that if I do have a firearm, that it's properly secured per MD laws for the whole 20 miles I drive through the state.
    When they run your VA DL, it shows them that you have a CHP.

    I had an officer ask me if the reason I would not let them search my car was "because you have your weapon in there. Because your carry permit in VA is no good here" afterhe returned from his car with my information. Itold them I'm not dumb enough to bring my gun to the PRoMD.

    This happened on a road block where the officer stuck his head into my car and asked me "What the hell you doin' up here boy?"



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    possumboy wrote:
    This happened on a road block where the officer stuck his head into my car and asked me "What the hell you doin' up here boy?"
    The 'sniff test' fails on Constitutional grounds.

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    Hey, I hadn't had my coffee yet. :P

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    possumboy wrote:
    When they run your VA DL, it shows them that you have a CHP.

    I had an officer ask me if the reason I would not let them search my car was "because you have your weapon in there. Because your carry permit in VA is no good here" afterhe returned from his car with my information. Itold them I'm not dumb enough to bring my gun to the PRoMD.

    This happened on a road block where the officer stuck his head into my car and asked me "What the hell you doin' up here boy?"


    Wow.

    You get used to living in VA, and it's a shock when you travel out of state and find out that things are quite different across that imaginary line on the map.

    As for REAL ID in Va., I hope we can mount some good push-back.


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    possumboy wrote:
    This happened on a road block where the officer stuck his head into my car and asked me "What the hell you doin' up here boy?"

    Driving through your piece of s**t state so I can get to the decent one on the other side:celebrate
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Our wonderful federal government has already compromised my personal data twice since 2004. We are not just talking about name, but name, SSN, address, Family members names and addresses, my medical history and more.

    Real ID requires a very complex network of data sharing amongst 50 states, 4 territories and the federal government. Government does not do a good job of keeping your information private when they are required to. Do you think this will improve when they are obligated to share this information??
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    Our wonderful federal government has already compromised my personal data twice since 2004. We are not just talking about name, but name, SSN, address, Family members names and addresses, my medical history and more.

    Real ID requires a very complex network of data sharing amongst 50 states, 4 territories and the federal government. Government does not do a good job of keeping your information private when they are required to. Do you think this will improve when they are obligated to share this information??
    Oh come on guys. If you think your info is private just because you have a {insert your state here} DL you're living a pipe dream. I can guarantee you that your info is available to any state that calls and asks for it, regardless of any REAL ID provisions. The only thing REAL ID will do is mandate that people not be issued a DL without proof that they are supposed to have a DL. Given that half or more of the hijackers in 9/11 got on the planes with real drivers licenses from the state, this makes buckets of sense.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    I hope every state creates very tamper proof and reliable ID. I have three problems with Real ID:

    1. It tramples on the sovereignty of the states. They should not be told how to create their documents. If the Federal Government requires a level of security, and can only obtain it with its own ID criteria, then let the cowardly congress of the United States propose a Federal ID card.

    2. The Federal Mandate eliminates state initiatives. States are now free to seek innovative solutions to this problem. The federal system assumes that big brother will have the best solutions. I know better. We will be safer if we let the states figure this out. The best ideas will float to the top.

    3. Real ID is not just about the license, but about the mandatory sharing of personal information amongst 50 states, 4 territories and the Federal Govt. TheGovernment can't keep private info private now when it is required. Do you think this will improve when the sharing of information amongst these government organizations is mandatory? No, there will be massive diligences of private information.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Washington has a similar discussion on Real ID

    Here:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...jump_to=118962
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    The news reported that you do not HAVE to get the ID and the states do not need to comply either.

    the read ID cards will employ better security to prevent counterfeiting.

    Citizens or states that do not have real ID compliant ID cards will not get to fly or enter certain government buildings.

    This ID is OPTIONAL!



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    LEO 229 wrote:
    The news reported that you do not HAVE to get the ID and the states do not need to comply either.

    the read ID cards will employ better security to prevent counterfeiting.

    Citizens or states that do not have real ID compliant ID cards will not get to fly or enter certain government buildings.

    This ID is OPTIONAL!

    Doesn't sound optional to me. Sounds like not playing ball results in becoming a second-class citizen. Thus, they apply the pressure of harassment and denial of civil rights to force you to comply.

    This is very, very bad.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    SNIP This is very, very bad.
    Agreed. I encourage readers to look into Real ID, do a little research.

    I just heard Chertoff today on the radio saying people will put up with some inconvenience (and invasion of privacy?) to feel more secure.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    This just in from the ACLU of Virginia:

    "In Virginia, Del. Chris Peace this session introduced a bill (HJ 42) that urges Congress to repeal the Act or delay implementation until the federal government provides funding and the Act is amended to ensure privacy rights are protected.


    Elizabeth T. Wong
    Public Education Coordinator"

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    The news reported that you do not HAVE to get the ID and the states do not need to comply either.

    the read ID cards will employ better security to prevent counterfeiting.

    Citizens or states that do not have real ID compliant ID cards will not get to fly or enter certain government buildings.

    This ID is OPTIONAL!

    Or to buy guns from dealers - that proposal has already been floated.

    Virginia should refuse to participate in REAL ID.

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    The news reported that you do not HAVE to get the ID and the states do not need to comply either.

    the read ID cards will employ better security to prevent counterfeiting.

    Citizens or states that do not have real ID compliant ID cards will not get to fly or enter certain government buildings.

    This ID is OPTIONAL!

    Or to buy guns from dealers - that proposal has already been floated.

    Virginia should refuse to participate in REAL ID.

    Here is a reference to the flying threat. Many think it is a bluff. Can you image airports in at least 17 states shutting down?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080112/...ver_s_licenses


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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    The Real ID could very possibly be a form of back door Gun Control. Right now the Federal government does not have mandated access to all state records. Under Real ID there will be access. Where will that stop? Will real ID lead to a sort of federal gun registration? Yes in states where there is registration now, of course it will grant Federal access. In states without registration they will know when you purchase a firearm and what type - handgun or shotgun, but not necessarily what firearm (until they mandate electronic 4473s). Think this won't happen? The Feds will deny gun purchases when real ID is not used!!


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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