REAL ID in Virginia

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Tomahawk wrote:

SNIP This is very, very bad.

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Agreed. I encourage readers to look into Real ID, do a little research.

I just heard Chertoff today on the radio saying people will put up with some inconvenience (and invasion of privacy?) to feel more secure.

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This just in from the ACLU of Virginia:

"In Virginia, Del. Chris Peace this session introduced a bill (HJ 42) that urges Congress to repeal the Act or delay implementation until the federal government provides funding and the Act is amended to ensure privacy rights are protected.

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LEO 229 wrote:

The news reported that you do not HAVE to get the ID and the states do not need to comply either.

the read ID cards will employ better security to prevent counterfeiting.

Citizens or states that do not have real ID compliant ID cards will not get to fly or enter certain government buildings.

This ID is OPTIONAL!

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Or to buy guns from dealers - that proposal has already been floated.

Virginia should refuse to participate in REAL ID.

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Mike wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

The news reported that you do not HAVE to get the ID and the states do not need to comply either.

the read ID cards will employ better security to prevent counterfeiting.

Citizens or states that do not have real ID compliant ID cards will not get to fly or enter certain government buildings.

This ID is OPTIONAL!

Click to expand...

Or to buy guns from dealers - that proposal has already been floated.

Virginia should refuse to participate in REAL ID.

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Here is a reference to the flying threat. Many think it is a bluff. Can you image airports in at least 17 states shutting down?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080112/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/secure_driver_s_licenses

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The Real ID could very possibly be a form of back door Gun Control. Right now the Federal government does not have mandated access to all state records. Under Real ID there will be access. Where will that stop? Will real ID lead to a sort of federal gun registration? Yes in states where there is registration now, of course it will grant Federal access. In states without registration they will know when you purchase a firearm and what type - handgun or shotgun, but not necessarily what firearm (until they mandate electronic 4473s). Think this won't happen? The Feds will deny gun purchases when real ID is not used!!

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Mike wrote:

This just in from the ACLU of Virginia:

"In Virginia, Del. Chris Peace this session introduced a bill (HJ 42) that urges Congress to repeal the Act or delay implementation until the federal government provides funding and the Act is amended to ensure privacy rights are protected.

Elizabeth T. Wong
Public Education Coordinator"
​

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I think VCDL should support this bill AND support any bill that excludes Virginia from Real ID AND any bill that eliminates recognition of any Federal ID in the Commonwealth of Virginia for any lawful purpose if the Federal Government refuses to grant full faith and credit to Virginia ID for not being Real ID compliant.

Could you imagine: I am sorry Colonel, but your US Army ID card is not valid for entry onto this Virginia National Guard facility

or

or, We are sorry Mr. ATF agent but your Federal Law Enforcement Badge is not recognized in this courthouse, you must leave your handgun in your vehicle.

Lots more areas where the proper response to their one sided reciprocity would hurt the Feds (and DC) real bad.

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Thundar wrote:

Mike wrote:

This just in from the ACLU of Virginia:

"In Virginia, Del. Chris Peace this session introduced a bill (HJ 42) that urges Congress to repeal the Act or delay implementation until the federal government provides funding and the Act is amended to ensure privacy rights are protected.

Elizabeth T. Wong
Public Education Coordinator"
​

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I think VCDL should support this bill AND support any bill that excludes Virginia from Real ID AND any bill that eliminates recognition of any Federal ID in the Commonwealth of Virginia for any lawful purpose if the Federal Government refuses to grant full faith and credit to Virginia ID for not being Real ID compliant.

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I agree that VCDL should support this bill.

However, the bill is better than nothing but still toothless. 5 states have actually outlawed Real ID implementation in their states altogether, which is a much better move.

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ama-gi wrote:

Thundar wrote:

Mike wrote:

This just in from the ACLU of Virginia:

"In Virginia, Del. Chris Peace this session introduced a bill (HJ 42) that urges Congress to repeal the Act or delay implementation until the federal government provides funding and the Act is amended to ensure privacy rights are protected.

Elizabeth T. Wong
Public Education Coordinator"
​

Click to expand...

I think VCDL should support this bill AND support any bill that excludes Virginia from Real ID AND any bill that eliminates recognition of any Federal ID in the Commonwealth of Virginia for any lawful purpose if the Federal Government refuses to grant full faith and credit to Virginia ID for not being Real ID compliant.

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I agree that VCDL should support this bill.

However, the bill is better than nothing but still toothless. 5 states have actually outlawed Real ID implementation in their states altogether, which is a much better move.

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+1 If Virginia were to ditch Real ID, it would be the end of Real ID. How could DC operate effectively with all Virginians working in the district not having Real ID. What a headache!:celebrate

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_id A review. VA is not listed as pro or anti.

Will we hear from the anti-civil liberties unionists as we do from the reasonable-regulation apologists?

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If you want to see a good breakdown of what's happened state by state with Real ID, RealNightmare.com is the best site. It's put out by the ACLU, which I usually disagree with, but think they're doing god's work in this case.

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http://www.realnightmare.org/ Open DNS is wonderful.

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Thundar wrote:

+1 If Virginia were to ditch Real ID, it would be the end of Real ID. How could DC operate effectively with all Virginians working in the district not having Real ID. What a headache!:celebrate

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That's a good point. Considering the Pentagon is in Virginia, not DC, too.

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Tomahawk wrote:

Thundar wrote:

+1 If Virginia were to ditch Real ID, it would be the end of Real ID. How could DC operate effectively with all Virginians working in the district not having Real ID. What a headache!:celebrate

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That's a good point. Considering the Pentagon is in Virginia, not DC, too.

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I have always shown my credentials when flying or enteringfederalproperty- I haven't used my Driver's license in several years.

The Real ID law will be easier for Federal DC worker because we have Federal government issued IDs. Which should be accepted. Unless the next President finds away around HSPD-12, Federal government agencies are supposed to be working on a standardized ID for physical and logical access. All of which should be accepted for flying and access to federal buildings.

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Mike wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

The news reported that you do not HAVE to get the ID and the states do not need to comply either.

the read ID cards will employ better security to prevent counterfeiting.

Citizens or states that do not have real ID compliant ID cards will not get to fly or enter certain government buildings.

This ID is OPTIONAL!

Click to expand...

Or to buy guns from dealers - that proposal has already been floated.

Virginia should refuse to participate in REAL ID.

Click to expand...

It does make sense to use it for firearm purchases too. :lol:

But again...airline flights are optional just like the ID card

You do not like the ID... You can just drive to California...

Do you have a passport???? This is pretty much the same damn thing!

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It does make sense to use it for firearm purchases too. :lol: But again... airline flights are optional just like the ID card You do not like the ID... You can just drive to California... Do you have a passport???? This is pretty much the same damn thing!

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I can'y imagine why anyone would want to go to California!

I'll just keeping shucking and ducking around the system until I meet my maker. I do feel very sad for those of you, and my children, that will be around a little longer, and have to deal with this bullshit!

Now according to Dennis Hopper and suprisingly enough, a favorite response during the 60's ......when asked who you were by the police:

Robert Roberts Esquire....Pig:celebrate

I'll bet that'll get you Danbussed quick!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Or is that Danbusted?:banghead:

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LEO 229,
I do not have any objections to states making tamper proof drivers licenses. To claim that this is what Real ID is, is a straw man argument. Of course this is logical.:lol:

What most who read and examine this legislation object to is:

1. The mandatory data collection, archiving and sharing that is required.:banghead:

2. The Federal mandate that significantly infringes upon the sovereignty of the states.:banghead:

3. The loss ofconstitutionally mandated full faith and reciprocity that is trumped by this federal law:banghead:

4. The mandatory conforming to Federal Standards by states to be able to issuea state document.:banghead:

5. The loss of state diversity. If you don't like it move to...... Doesn't really matter any moreif all states are the same, merely political subdivisions of the Federal Govt.:banghead:

Now on to the bit about firearms purchases requiring Real ID. Were you serious or just playing with us?

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Thundar wrote:

LEO 229,
I do not have any objections to states making tamper proof drivers licenses. To claim that this is what Real ID is, is a straw man argument. Of course this is logical.:lol:

What most who read and examine this legislation object to is:

1. The mandatory data collection, archiving and sharing that is required.

2. The Federal mandate that significantly infringes upon the sovereignty of the states.

3. The loss ofconstitutionally mandated full faith and reciprocity that is trumped by this federal law

4. The mandatory conforming to Federal Standards by states to be able to issuea state document.

5. The loss of state diversity. If you don't like it move to...... Doesn't really matter any moreif all states are the same, merely political subdivisions of the Federal Govt.

Now on to the bit about firearms purchases requiring Real ID. Were you serious or just playing with us?

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Each state has three options...

1. Refuse to adopt the secure ID altogether
2. Implement the necessary security featuresto prevent counterfeiting as part of the State driver's license or State ID card
3. Adopt a NEW separate State ID that has all the necessary security features to prevent counterfeiting.

I can tell you now that there are some excellent FAKE VA Licenses out there. The only was you can tell they are fake is to run the number and if it does not return. The best ones will have the other guys info and your photo. Then it is impossible to tell.

The new security features will make it much harder to counterfeit the ID. This is what is really needed.

1) The states already share your information on State identification on licensing. I am not sure why the sharing of anything else is such a big deal. To get the secure ID you would need to prove your are here legally. What else are they going to collect that is so sensitive?

2) The Feds control the skies.... if you want to fly in the federally controlled airways... you will need an ID that is approved by them. As I said before... flying is optional and so is obtaining the ID.

3) huh?

4) It is optional.... not a mandate. If the state refuses.. their citizens will not be able to use that State ID to fly.

5) If you do not likethe optional ID.. no need to move.. Just do not apply for it.

Mike brought up the bit about using the ID for firearms purchases... But it is not a bad idea.

But you can still buy privately and from the black market so there is your way around that little problem.

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peter nap wrote:

Danbusted?:banghead:

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Yet another word for our growing lexicon!

Are we keeping track?

Home Invasion Raids

Unicorn

I think I'm missing one...

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LEO 229 wrote:

Mike wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

The news reported that you do not HAVE to get the ID and the states do not need to comply either.

the read ID cards will employ better security to prevent counterfeiting.

Citizens or states that do not have real ID compliant ID cards will not get to fly or enter certain government buildings.

This ID is OPTIONAL!

Click to expand...

Or to buy guns from dealers - that proposal has already been floated.

Virginia should refuse to participate in REAL ID.

Click to expand...

It does make sense to use it for firearm purchases too. :lol:

But again...airline flights are optional just like the ID card

You do not like the ID... You can just drive to California...

Do you have a passport???? This is pretty much the same damn thing!

Click to expand...

You will need a passport to fly anywhere if you do not have a "Real ID"

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LEO 229 wrote:

You do not like the ID... You can just drive to California...

Click to expand...

California hasn't opted out ofthe Real ID:quirky

The states that have opted out are Maine, Idaho, South Carolina, Washington and New Hampshire. Interestingly, the most anti-gun states (Illinois mainly) have been the ones to move forward the quickest with implementing Real ID. Seems all control freak statists think alike.