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Thread: Newbie with question

  1. #1
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    This is my first posting,I was at a Golden Corral eating and the managerasked me if I was a law enforcement officer and what field was I in,I told himI wasn't that I'mjust a citizen exercising my 2nd amendment right and the Indiana rights to carry,he then told me to get rid of my piece or leave,I told him I was licensed,he replied the establishment was private and that state law did not apply on private property thatonly his laws and rulesdid onthis property!I pulled my shirt out of my pants over my piece to hide it. I asked a deputy with the Bartholomew County Sheriff's department that I served in the military with the situation and he said it should of been posted on the door(It wasn't) and that on private property they can make you leave if they are uncomfortable with seeing a handgun in the open,he said he wasn't a big fan of regular citizens that open carry,because of situations like this. I talked to another police officer that told me only the owner of the property can request you hide it or have it posted it outside, the manager or any other employee could not make me do anything.What are anyone's thoughts on this?



  2. #2
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Well from what I've read and heard management does have the right to ask you to leave or cover your piece. Failure to do so can result in trespassing charges.

    What I'm wondering is this. If a person is asked to leave because they are carrying but an LEO is allowed in while carrying would that be a form of discrimination that a person could take action against? If the LEO were off duty.



    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
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    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    Essentially, Private Property rights trump those of the Second Amendment, so long as they dont violate "protected rights" such as sex, race, religion, etc. And the manager is like the owners representative to the establishment so he speaks for the owner. So unless you have a gun surgically attached to your hip you have to leave whenever they tell you to. I dont care if im 90% of the way through my mealk, if they tell me to leave, ill leave and youd better believe i wont be paying for the meal. They would be breaking the verbal contract that is; I will pay you to let me eat your food in your restaurant, if they dont want you to eat there then im not going to pay for it.

    The only real option you have is if it is a chain restaurant that is not privately owned (such as some McDonalds) you can find out the corporate policy and the manager MUST follow that. If it is privately owned then talk to the owner, if he doesn't have a problem with you carrying there then have him tell his managers to quit harassing you, We've been through all of this stuff in VA, Its not too difficult but it is a pain.

    And i do believe that an off-duty cop COULD be told to leave, but you know that the public perception is that cops should be the only ones carrying, whether on duty or not, so they more than likely wont care if its an off-duty cop carrying.

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    Even if there's no law in the state allowing businesses to post no-guns signs that carry weight of law, and even if there is no gun, a failure to heed a request to leave private property constitutes trespassing. The property owner has every right to tell you to leave for any reason.

    Texas state law, at least, is very protective of officers. It is expressly defined in the applicable penal code sections that a peace officer while in performance of his/her official duties cannot commit an offense of trespassing or illegal carry of a weapon even if their actions, taken by a non-law officer, would constitute such action.

    It's very simple; my rights as a property owner trump yours as a citizen when you are on my property, and in turn are trumped by the state's powers to enforce the law.

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    Yep, doesn't matter if it is posted or not, if the manager says leave, you have to go or you can be arrested. You pretty much have to assume that the manager speaks for the owner and do as he asks. You can always get his name and number and find out later if the owner and/or coporate office agrees.

    Was he ok with you just concealing it instead of putting it in your vehicle or leaving? I ask because you had already been asked to "get rid of it or leave".

    Too bad you couldn't just leave and not pay like somone suggested, Golden Corral (at least the one here) is a buffet place and you have to pay as you come in.


    Welcome to the forum!!

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    He was fine talking to me at the food area until he found out I wasn't a law enforcement officer ,I just yanked my shirt out of my pants and he stared me down the rest of the time I was there,I don't carry open anymore,I normally don't,I just bought a S&W 38 special with 6 inch barrel and the holster was big ,attached to my belt.If I would of lied and said yes I am an officer everything would probably been fine!

    If there is a next time ,I'll just reply"I cannot talk about what I do or who I am" and walk away Thanks for all responses

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    haha i love that "i cannot talk about what i do or who i am" haha i think i am going to use that one!

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    disconnect wrote:
    haha i love that "i cannot talk about what i do or who i am" haha i think i am going to use that one!
    My favorite one is "Stand back, ma'am! I'm a scientist!" Second favorite, of course, is "Don't worry ma'am. I'm from the Internet. Everything's going to be alright."

  9. #9
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    Beau wrote:
    Well from what I've read and heard management does have the right to ask you to leave or cover your piece. Failure to do so can result in trespassing charges.

    What I'm wondering is this. If a person is asked to leave because they are carrying but an LEO is allowed in while carrying would that be a form of discrimination that a person could take action against? If the LEO were off duty.


    Absolutley not.

    Signs do not have to be posted anywhere. It was privately owned property, they can ask you to leave (owner) or someone acting under their authority.

    They could ask an LEO to leave if they wanted to (off-duty), however if they asked and he produced a badge, saying he was off-duty, they would prolly still let him carry, but this is certainly NOT discrimination.

    They will take into account the officers job, training, and so forth in most cases to believe he is responsible enough to carry a firearm, regardless of any training you have.

    OP'er, your friend was wrong.

    I would have gotten up and left in the middle of my meal if it had happened to me, but beyond that there is little you can do.

    Unfortunately your only recourse is contacting management, and if it is a franchised store, you already may be out of options.


  10. #10
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    Same here.

    openryan wrote:

    I would have gotten up and left in the middle of my meal if it had happened to me, but beyond that there is little you can do.

    Unfortunately your only recourse is contacting management, and if it is a franchised store, you already may be out of options.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    openryan wrote:
    Beau wrote:
    What I'm wondering is this. If a person is asked to leave because they are carrying but an LEO is allowed in while carrying would that be a form of discrimination that a person could take action against? If the LEO were off duty.
    They will take into account the officers job, training, and so forth in most cases to believe he is responsible enough to carry a firearm, regardless of any training you have.
    Little do they know some LEO's shouldn't be carrying due to lack of training.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  12. #12
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    Beau wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    Beau wrote:
    What I'm wondering is this. If a person is asked to leave because they are carrying but an LEO is allowed in while carrying would that be a form of discrimination that a person could take action against? If the LEO were off duty.
    They will take into account the officers job, training, and so forth in most cases to believe he is responsible enough to carry a firearm, regardless of any training you have.
    Little do they know some LEO's shouldn't be carrying due to lack of training.
    Unfortunately, you are correct.

    But on the same token, most people/sheeple think of LEO's of having superior firearms training.

    All I wanted to state is the train of thought of those individuals, and not knowing the law, and the background of the non LE carrier.

    Your point is well taken.

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