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Thread: Question re: carrying where alcohol is served

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    I know the law says no carry in restaurants/clubs that serve alcohol, but I am curious as to carrying in an area like Beale Street in Memphis. Yeah, its nothing but bars, but if I was not imbibing would it be legal to carry on Beale Street? The reason I ask is that alcohol is served not just in the bars/clubs, but also on the street, similar to Bourbon Street in New Orleans.

    Can any of you law-savvy folks educate me? Thanks...




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    Regular Member Fallguy's Avatar
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    IANAL but I would think you would be ok as long as you weren't drinking and if you weren't inoutdoor"designated area" of club or bar.


    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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    All of Beale St. is considered a bar and carrying would be a violation. I haven't left anything in downtown Memphis I need to go back for.

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    GunnerMike wrote:
    All of Beale St. is considered a bar and carrying would be a violation. I haven't left anything in downtown Memphis I need to go back for.
    Can you please cite a source for this information?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    In that you can walk on Beale with alcohol in hand, all of Beale St. is a bar. No, I don't have the Memphis Ordinance at hand but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express in Springfield, MA. You can open carry in TN and if you do so on Beale they have a room in Motel Poplar awaiting you. The address is 201 Poplar and they'll leave the light on for you.

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    I can walk in my house and my yard with a beer, they are not bars. I can buy a beer and walk around with it any many ball stadiums, those are not bars. The reason you can't walk down most city streets with alcohol if because of city ordnances, so it could be just as likely that Memphis has an ordnance that allows open containers on Beale St. Of course that goes back to the OP's orginal question as to whether that prevents the carrying of a firearm. I was not trying to be confritational only asking for the source of your information.

    Reading the law a little closer...it would appear that if you are on the street you would be legal.

    T.C.A. 39-17-1305 Possession of firearm where alcoholic beverages are served. —

    (a) It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for on premises consumption. (emphasis added)

    ...and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express
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    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    pwned. Good job Fallguy.

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    After some discussion on another forum there "may" be another law that can apply. On the other forum the mentioned that the street was blocked off during certain events. If that is the case it could be considered "recreational property" owned by the city and T.C.A. 39-17-1311 may apply.

    They say they have seen people turned away with weapons during those events when the street is blocked off.

    So it would seem on a "normal" day it would be ok, but if it is blocked off for an event, probably not ok.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Fallguy wrote:
    I can walk in my house and my yard with a beer, they are not bars. I can buy a beer and walk around with it any many ball stadiums, those are not bars. The reason you can't walk down most city streets with alcohol if because of city ordnances, so it could be just as likely that Memphis has an ordnance that allows open containers on Beale St. Of course that goes back to the OP's orginal question as to whether that prevents the carrying of a firearm. I was not trying to be confritational only asking for the source of your information.

    Reading the law a little closer...it would appear that if you are on the street you would be legal.

    T.C.A. 39-17-1305 Possession of firearm where alcoholic beverages are served. —

    (a) It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for on premises consumption. (emphasis added)

    ...and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express
    We discussed this same subject over in the va forum. We concluded that the sidewalk is considered part of the bar or restaurant if you can purchase alcohol in a specific area. Most places will rope if off. If people purchase indoors and then are allowed to walk outside then I think that would be different.

    Here is the discussion

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...ight=c%27ville

    DC

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    Ok, the law clearly states "within the confines of a building" so T.C.A. 39-17-1305 would not apply. T.C.A. 39-17-1311 also does not apply because the area must be posted, whether or not it is deemed "for recreational purposes." Also as TN has COMPLETE state preemption there is no lawful ordinance. I am not saying there isn't one, but it would not be lawful.

    Now, anyone open carrying in this situation is in my opinion a fool, a fool within his rights, but a fool nonetheless. That being said, the organizers of an event can ask you not to bring your firearm. Would be similar to being asked to leave a grocery store for carrying.

    All in my opinion of course.

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    Kingfish I agree your interpritation is just as valid as anyone else's on this. Honestly in my "opinion" 39-17-1311 doesn't appy to handguns period, but rather to a list of weapons refrenced in 39-17-1302(a) of which a handgun is not listed. However there are some AG opinions that disagree with me.

    As far as the posting part of 39-17-1311, it does allow the goverening body of the property to exempt itself from having to post if they choose to. 39-17-1311(c)(3)
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Everyone please contact your local state officials (Senate and House of Reps) and urge them to support this bill. The House bill number is 702. I've already contact my state reps and all have said they are in support of this bill. Most other states have provisions or carrying in areas that serve alcohol and I'm glad Tennessee is finally revising this law as well.

    http://www.legislature.state.tn.us/senate/members/smembers.htm#Find

    http://www.legislature.state.tn.us/b...ILL/SB0023.pdf


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    mdmoseley wrote:
    Everyone please contact your local state officials (Senate and House of Reps) and urge them to support this bill. The House bill number is 702.
    Good luck guys. Though I don't think king Neife is gonna let it happen.

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    I agree that it is going to be tough....but there is one thing that may help. There is a bill in the legislature now to let the speaker of each house to appoint "special" sergeant-at-arms. They would be able to have weapons in the chambers of the capital and have some police powers. The reasoning behind this is because of all the gun violence around the country the sponsor said. But remember, when they arein the capital they are already protected by state troopers, metal dectors and capital police.....and still feel the need to have armed guards in the meeting chambers. Seems like the least the could do is let us defend ourselves at Logan's....


    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Thanks for the opinions and info so far guys (and gals?)...

    Just to clarify -

    Beale St IS blocked off, no vehicle traffic allowed on most evenings (except N-S through streets at lights). The E-W (main) entrances are guarded by on-duty LEOs who card everyone trying to enter after 2000 (I think, may be 2100).

    It is NOT posted no weapons. You can buy alcohol on the street, not cordoned off as part of a bar. You ARE allowed to take drinks from a bar into the street as long as its in a plastic cup andyou do not leave Beale St (approx 3 blocks long).

    Beale St is allowed to sell alcohol AFTER all other establishments are forced to cease by local law (2300 for liquor stores, 0200 for convience stores(beer) or bars not on Beale St (beer or liquor), 0430 for establishments on Beale St sellingany kind ofalcohol).

    I haven't been in a long time, but Beale St is the ONLY place in Memphisyou can buy beer or liquor before noon on a Sunday (or it used to be).

    The crime rate on Beale is no problem but the crime rate for the surrounding areas is insane - we have a saying that IF you get to Beale St you will be fine.

    A lot of friends from out of town (of course) want to go there and I am simply not comfortable in that area without being armed ( I rarely drink, and never when carrying of course). The laws governing Beale St are exempted from almost all other local ordinances and thus my confusion about how the CC/OC laws apply to legally armed citizens.

    Anyone else have any advice/info/laws/opinions?

    I guess I really need to visit the CLEO for clarification...

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    From all that I have read, the LEOs would prevent you from entering if they knowyou are armed or ask you to leave if they find out you are armed after you have made it past them.

    Whether this is legal or not is another question.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    So unfortunately true Fallguy...hence my question. Is the LAW in my favor or not?

    Anyone?

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    LOL...well what I meant is, even if it is legal for you to carry there (I'd say there is more of a chance it is legal than not), the LEOs are not going to let you anyway. Of course with enough money and time you could fight it. After you are arrested and go to court that is....
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    The bill has passed the senate. Email your house reps so we can get it passed there also.

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    I just emailed my Rep. JIMMY ELDRIDGE. Thanks for the heads up.

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    i emailed my senator and this is what he emailed me back

    Dear Tony,

    Thank you for taking the time to write. Not only did I support Senate
    Bill 23, I signed on to co-sponsor the bill.

    Please continue to voice your opinions. I can only truly represent the
    people of Senate District 12 if I know what is on your minds, and I
    always take your correspondence seriously.

    Thank you again for contacting me.


    Sincerely,

    Senator Tommy Kilby
    Senate District 12
    Chairman, Senate Enviornment Committee
    10-A Legislative Plaza
    Nashville, TN 37243
    615-741-1449 (o)


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