Notice: No swords in assembly building

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http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.PrintView.-content-articles-RTD-2008-01-12-0113.html

Notice: No swords in assembly building
Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 - 12:09 AM
By CHRIS I. YOUNGTIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER

Charles Evans Hughes Sr. learned an important lesson yesterday: When trying to visit your legislator, don't bring a prop to prove your point, especially if it's a sword.
Virginia Capitol Police at the General Assembly Building stopped Hughes at the metal detector when he declared his sword, which was sheathed in a leather-wrapped walking cane. He had a permit to carry a concealed handgun, but police told him to leave the sword cane outside.

"They said it's considered a concealed weapon, and I told them this went along with my outfit," Hughes, wearing an 1880s-era sheriff uniform and accoutrements, said outside the building.

He said he came to talk to state officials about changing the concealed-weapons law. "I'm not out here to harm anybody or do anything. I'm just minding my own business," said Hughes, 69, of Richmond.

Capitol Police Lt. Randall Howard confirmed that Hughes would have been able to enter the building had he been carrying a pistol, assuming his concealed-handgun permit was valid.

"We respect the right of the public to come to the Capitol, and we encourage that, but it's our job to make sure to provide a safe and secure environment for visitors to the Capitol," Howard said. "They're common-sense procedures and pretty standard."
Visitors to the General Assembly Building must walk through a metal detector and have their belongings scanned by an X-ray machine.

"You're talking about two different things, a sword versus a pistol," Howard said. "Part of our job is to make sure illegal weapons aren't allowed in the building, and a large weapon such as a sword obviously would be a concern to us in terms of the safety and well-being of others in the building."

Hughes found someone at a nearby parking lot to watch his sword cane, and he went back to the building.
Contact Chris I. Young at (804) 649-6754 or cyoung@timesdispatch.com.

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69 year old man with a sword vs. 69 year old man with a high capacity handgun...

The law sure is balanced.

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steveforopen wrote:

69 year old man with a sword vs. 69 year old man with a high capacity handgun...

The law sure is balanced.

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I was thinking the same thing!

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You can't use logic when dealing with state legislators or employees of the state when it comes to weapons. Virginia Tech still doen't allow students to carry firearms even after a massacre on their "gun free campus", right? And doesn't the administration still oppose it.

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He's lucky he wasn't arrested. Carrying a concealed weapon is a crime unless you have a permit for it and Virginia only issues permits for guns, not other types of weapons.

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Is it the carry of swords that is prohibited in the General Assembly Building, or is itthe carry of a concealed weapon that is prohibited?

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junglebob wrote:

You can't use logic when dealing with state legislators or employees of the state when it comes to weapons.

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Strike the word "weapons" and replace with the word "anything."

Bureaucrats ae stupid. They know how to do nothing but follow orders and kill people.

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Thundar wrote:

Is it the carry of swords that is prohibited in the General Assembly Building, or is itthe carry of a concealed weapon that is prohibited?

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Good question.

Is there a defined list of prohibited items or does it just say "weapon".

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LEO 229 wrote:

Thundar wrote:

Is it the carry of swords that is prohibited in the General Assembly Building, or is itthe carry of a concealed weapon that is prohibited?

Click to expand...

Good question.

Is there a defined list of prohibited items or does it just say "weapon".

Click to expand...

Well, yes. There is a very handy little list:

§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor...

The basic concept from the format is that all concealed weapons are made illegal by the first paragraph of 18.2-308. Later paragraphs then addressexceptions.

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Citizen wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

Thundar wrote:

Is it the carry of swords that is prohibited in the General Assembly Building, or is itthe carry of a concealed weapon that is prohibited?

Click to expand...

Good question.

Is there a defined list of prohibited items or does it just say "weapon".

Click to expand...

Well, yes. There is a very handy little list:

§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor...

The basic concept from the format is that all concealed weapons are made illegal by the first paragraph of 18.2-308. Later paragraphs then addressexceptions.

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Permit me to clarify further...

Since I have been here a while and I have viewed the 18.2-308 code many times... I am aware of the various weapons listed in regards to the carry of concealed weapons.

I was actually directing my question to the general assembly building.

Is there a sign or list of prohibited items?? If there is a list... does it only refer to "weapons" being prohibited.

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LEO 229 wrote:

SNIP I was actually directing my question to the general assembly building.

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No offense, but think about that for a moment.

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On second thought, I think that you could argue that carrying a sword in a sword sheath isn't concealing as to the meaning of the statute since to conceal is to hide the character of the weapon from common observation. A sheath with a handle sticking out says to the world, "hey I have a sword" just like a holster with the handle sticking out says, "hey I have a gun."

Also, I don't see sword as one of the prohibited items unless it'sconsidered knife.

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I don't think we'll end this General Assembly rules discussionuntil somebody can get a copy of the (JRC?) Rule.

I hunted around on the General Assembly's website. No luck.

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The code lists a number of weapons which may not be carried concealed.

Then it permits issuance of a concealed firearms permit.

What allows carry of any of the other things concealed? If I load fencing gear into a bag, not securely wrapped, and I don't go immediately to/from an event?

I realize the example isn't really the greatest, but surely there must be some way to carry those other weapons concealed. The permit, in VA, is only for carrying a concealed handgun, right?

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Citizen wrote:

I don't think we'll end this General Assembly rules discussionuntil somebody can get a copy of the (JRC?) Rule.

I hunted around on the General Assembly's website. No luck.

Click to expand...

I also looked forthe rulesbut could not find them.

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Citizen wrote:

Well, yes. There is a very handy little list:

§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor...

The basic concept from the format is that all concealed weapons are made illegal by the first paragraph of 18.2-308. Later paragraphs then addressexceptions.

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Where is sword in this section?

IANAL, but section (v) "of like kind" does not, in my opinion,include pocket knives, buck knives or swords.

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Tess wrote:

What allows carry of any of the other things concealed? If I load fencing gear into a bag, not securely wrapped, and I don't go immediately to/from an event?

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Good point, Tess.Yours, too, Thundar.

Concealed swords aren't included. Neither are concealed foils or sabers--fencing weapons. The catchall phrase, (v), has the limiter "like kind" and there is nothing "like" mentioned in the list.

So, 18.2-308 wouldn't apply. About the only thing left would be aweapons prohibition in the General Assembly's rules. And maybe some sort of court opinion.

I hereby publicly eat just a little bit of crow for giving LEO229 a hard time above.

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Thundar wrote:

Citizen wrote:

I don't think we'll end this General Assembly rules discussionuntil somebody can get a copy of the (JRC?) Rule.

I hunted around on the General Assembly's website. No luck.

Click to expand...

I also looked forthe rulesbut could not find them.

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Ask and ye shall receive, at least the GA firearms restrictions.
http://www.virginia1774.org/JointRules.pdf

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longwatch wrote:

Thundar wrote:

Citizen wrote:

I don't think we'll end this General Assembly rules discussionuntil somebody can get a copy of the (JRC?) Rule.

I hunted around on the General Assembly's website. No luck.

Click to expand...

I also looked forthe rulesbut could not find them.

Click to expand...

Ask and ye shall receive, at least the GA firearms restrictions.
http://www.virginia1774.org/JointRules.pdf

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That covers firearms. I was almost ready tohowl another case of over-stepping LE, then realized there may be another general prohibition somewhere.

Nooo. An earlier general prohibition against weapons would have automatically included firearms. It certainly wouldn't have made an exception for guns while banning everything else.

I'm starting to think this fella was illegally disarmed.

Thanks, Longwatch. Gotta keep that www.virginia1774.org in mind.

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Citizen wrote:

longwatch wrote:

Thundar wrote:

Citizen wrote:

I don't think we'll end this General Assembly rules discussionuntil somebody can get a copy of the (JRC?) Rule.

I hunted around on the General Assembly's website. No luck.

Click to expand...

I also looked forthe rulesbut could not find them.

Click to expand...

Ask and ye shall receive, at least the GA firearms restrictions.
http://www.virginia1774.org/JointRules.pdf

Click to expand...

That covers firearms. I was almost ready tohowl another case of over-stepping LE, then realized there may be another general prohibition somewhere.

Nooo. An earlier general prohibition against weapons would have automatically included firearms. It certainly wouldn't have made an exception for guns while banning everything else.

I'm starting to think this fella was illegally disarmed.

Click to expand...

I'm still searching for where the rules actually written, maybe I'll find it tonight. If not I will be asking someone down at the GA for it.
As for illegally disarmed or turned away. Maybe,but they have banned unlicensed carry without a challenge or having to pass a law, whats to stop them from banning swords? Another issue that has been brought up is if a sword cane is covered under 18.2-308. It could be considered a dirk, which is a dagger but also a short naval sword.