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Thread: Active Military Carry rights?

  1. #1
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    Military enlisted and officers can get LEO breaks to purchase weapons.
    Active Mil Officers are able to carry open and or concealed anywhere ( their house, car etc) Like a LEO right?

    Or do MIL officers have to register with the state they're working in for a carry license?

    If so what happens when you live and work in Chicago as an officer. The state doesn't give out CCW's. But does let LEO carry, and I assume Mil.


    Being mil and carrying same as leo? or must military register adn get liscences?

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    Generally speaking, active duty military must follow the same laws as civilians when carrying off-duty. If carrying on-duty (in uniform, with government issued weapon and under orders), they are under various military regs, federal rules and state rules. Most states have exemptions/allowances for on-duty carry, similar to those for police, varies by state.

    If off-duty andyou do not live on post, you are pretty well prohibited from even transporting weapons onto base in your car (for example, when traveling to/from work),personal carry on base is essentially forbidden as well (this is due to military regs). They'll trust me with several hundred millions of dollars worth ofaircraft and hundreds of lives, but not with mygun. Sigh.

    Some retail stores offer military discounts, but it's not a given.

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    PavePusher explained it well. To put it simply, the only time militarystatuscan authorize someone tocarry a weapon is when they are on duty, and have standing orders specifically stating that the use and carriage of a specific weapon is required and authorized.

    In fact, some commands would like to think that they can restrict their troops from carrying legally even when not on duty. Even worse, the Sheriff of Onslow County, NC, where Marine Corps Base, Camp Lejeune is located, has tried to deny CCW permits to Marines unless they had a signed letter from their Commanding Officer giving them "permission". He's also been quoted saying that Marines just shouldn't be allowed to have guns out in town, period.

    I, being a former Marine, don't think the military should have any more rights or privileges than any other citizen. There's a reason you "serve" in the armed forces. You literally become a servant of the People, sacrificing some of your own rights and privileges to protect the Constitution. If a law were to be passed, giving active duty military more freedom than that of the People, it would be another large step towards a Military State. It's bad enough that law enforcement is given free reign to carry where and when they please.

    /rant


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    DreQo wrote:
    It's bad enough that law enforcement is given free reign to carry where and when they please.

    /rant
    Not to hijack the thread but, Why?

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    Why?
    I'm guessing he's not objecting to LE being able to carry everywhere per se, but rather at their being priveleged to carry places that ordinary law-abiding citizen's arent.

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    kparker wrote:
    Why?
    I'm guessing he's not objecting to LE being able to carry everywhere per se, but rather at their being priveleged to carry places that ordinary law-abiding citizen's arent.
    I'm Active Duty military, and I completely agree.

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    Military personnel only carry issued weapons when ordered to do so. Generally speaking, they are not issued weapons to carry off base, concealed or otherwise.

    There is sort of a myth that commissioned officers can carry off duty. That comes from regulations that were long ago changed where officers could, in effect, issue themselves orders. Also, it used to be that a lot of regulations just did not apply to officers, as they were thought to be gentlemen and their conduct was not required to be controlled. There were also a few states, (NY comes to mind), where commissioned officers were at one time exempt from the permit laws.

    People on active duty are essentially owned by the military. They do as they are told 24/7. Usually, commanders do not make the off duty rules real onerous because they know it will just cause unnecessary trouble. That does not mean they can't do so.

    I heardof at least one marine who got several days of brig time for falling asleep on the beach off duty and getting a very bad sunburn, and thus not being able to perform his duties for some time.



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    kparker wrote:
    Why?
    I'm guessing he's not objecting to LE being able to carry everywhere per se, but rather at their being priveleged to carry places that ordinary law-abiding citizen's arent.

    Thats part of it. Let me put it into perspective. If you or I were a cop, because of our understanding of the constitution, we'd probably not last very long because we'd refuse to enforce unconstitutional laws. The reason we feel so strongly about these laws, is because every day we have to deal with being told we can't carry in certain places, or not at all.

    Your average cop, on the other hand, never has to deal with those problems. They can carry wherever they'd like (for the most part), so they don't FEEL what its like to be restricted like we are. When they don't experience the hardship first hand, it's easier for them to accept things the way they are.

    How long do you think some of these gun laws would remain enforced if the government suddenly said "Law enforcement is no longer an exceptionregarding firearm carriage restrictions." A lot of cops would throw a fit, and quickly jump on the 2A band wagon. They would stop enforcing the laws because all of a sudden they feel what it's like, and they don't like it! I strongly believe that this is part of the reason the government does excuse law enforcement. It keeps the LEOs on their side, enforcing their unconstitutional laws.

    Does that make sense?


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    ilbob wrote:
    I heardof at least one Marine who got several days of brig time for falling asleep on the beach off duty and getting a very bad sunburn, and thus not being able to perform his duties for some time.
    Weeell I dunno about brig time BUT it is very possible to be NJPed (non-judicially punished) for it. There was actually a Marine in my former unit that faced a forfeiture of pay and barracks restriction because he broke his leg being stupid on a dirt bike over the weekend. What was the charge going to be? Destruction of Government Property. No joke.

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    DreQo wrote:
    ilbob wrote:
    I heardof at least one Marine who got several days of brig time for falling asleep on the beach off duty and getting a very bad sunburn, and thus not being able to perform his duties for some time.
    Weeell I dunno about brig time BUT it is very possible to be NJPed (non-judicially punished) for it. There was actually a Marine in my former unit that faced a forfeiture of pay and barracks restriction because he broke his leg being stupid on a dirt bike over the weekend. What was the charge going to be? Destruction of Government Property. No joke.
    Wouldn't be destruction of property (Art 108)...service personnel aren't property.

    Being stupid on a motorcycle would fall under Art. 111 Drunken or Reckless Driving & Art. 92 for failure to follow a lawful order with regards to not following established and briefed safety procedures.

    Getting a sunburn could probably fall under Art 115 Malingering. Harming yourself to avoid duty but they would have to prove it was intentional. They would probably use the Art 134 General Article (a.k.a The Catch All article).

    Back on topic, Active military has to follow the laws of the state they are in. Some states are military friendly such as VA which allows you to use your DD214 or Weapons Training form as proof of compentency for your CCW permit.

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    soloban wrote:
    DreQo wrote:
    ilbob wrote:
    I heardof at least one Marine who got several days of brig time for falling asleep on the beach off duty and getting a very bad sunburn, and thus not being able to perform his duties for some time.
    Weeell I dunno about brig time BUT it is very possible to be NJPed (non-judicially punished) for it. There was actually a Marine in my former unit that faced a forfeiture of pay and barracks restriction because he broke his leg being stupid on a dirt bike over the weekend. What was the charge going to be? Destruction of Government Property. No joke.
    Wouldn't be destruction of property (Art 108)...service personnel aren't property.

    Being stupid on a motorcycle would fall under Art. 111 Drunken or Reckless Driving & Art. 92 for failure to follow a lawful order with regards to not following established and briefed safety procedures.

    Getting a sunburn could probably fall under Art 115 Malingering. Harming yourself to avoid duty but they would have to prove it was intentional. They would probably use the Art 134 General Article (a.k.a The Catch All article).

    Back on topic, Active military has to follow the laws of the state they are in. Some states are military friendly such as VA which allows you to use your DD214 or Weapons Training form as proof of compentency for your CCW permit.
    I was under the solid impression that it was indeed a destruction of property charge. I guess I'll have to go ask the guy if he's still around.

    As far as the VA law that assumes that if you have a DD214, you're proficient enough to meet the same standards as the training that is required, thats the kind of crap that I'm talking about. Most military members will go through a 4-8 yr enlistment w/o ever TOUCHING a handgun. On top of that, their rifle training only happens once a year, and is far from practical. The training there is focused solely on how to put the holes in the paper so you can pass.

    Granted, I don't think the whole permit thing is right, anyway. But if they're going to make the People show proof of HANDGUN training, they should require no less from someone in the military. I've seen, first hand, Marines who could score 'Expert' on the rifle range, but literally couldn't hit the paper at 7 feet with a 9mm.

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    VA law does not concern itself with proficiency, only that one has had some type of safety with guns class/course/instruction. A hunter safety course qualifies for CHP purposes. No shooting is actually required, though most courses people take for a CHP do have shooting involved.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    I agree with not enough handgun training. Just like anything it all comes down to dollars and time. I probably shot less that 100 rounds on a military firing range when I was active duty. And on both occasions I was only a few rounds shy of expert on M-16 and M-9. However, I've shot many many more on my own and I'm confident that I can control where the rounds will go. I wouldn't carry otherwise.

    Its possible the Commander of the Marine in question told him that he could either take an Art. 15 or he was going to recommend charging him with "Destruction of Gov't Property". I'm sure that if the Marine had waived the Art. 15 and took his chances in court the JAG would have changed the charges to Reckless Driving. Either way I'm sure the Commander had him dead-to-rights

    Back when I was AD, one of the E-2's in our office got pulled over by a CHiP on the 101 doing 140MPH on his new bike. It took the CHiP two miles to catch up to him. He was cited for reckless driving. He owned up to the First Shirt and Commander and they wrote him up in a memo and told him no driving and restricted to base for 30 days. He basically got 15'ed but didn't get the paperwork in the record because he fessed up and didn't try to hide it.



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    Regular Member USMC91E6's Avatar
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    PavePusher wrote:
    If off-duty andyou do not live on post, you are pretty well prohibited from even transporting weapons onto base in your car.

    This is from Camp Lejeune Base Order 5500.1G. Transporting Pravately Owned Firearms Aboard Camp Lejeune.

    a. It is unlawful to transport a firearm in a vehicle unless the firearm is secured in a locked vehicle trunck. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the firearm will be secured inside a locked case or locked golve compartment while aboard Camp Lejeune.

    b. No loaded firearm will be transported. All ammunition will be seperated from the firearm.

    I hope this helps.



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    double tapped



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    Oops, I probably should have said that the regs can vary from base to base, it's up to commanders discretion. And very few commanders are willing to let their next promotion be dependant on their subordinates use of firearms for self defense. No-one ever lost brass for their troops being assaulted when off duty...

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    I dont know what the reg is on other bases but a good way to find out is to check out the base or post website.

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