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Thread: Advice needed

  1. #1
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    Good morningeveryone!

    I am going to get a new handgun soon and i got sort of confused between 2 options. I was planning on getting a subcompact XD-9 for a while and it was pretty much a no-brainer, but last saturday i went to a gun store to look at it again and feel it in my hand and laid my eyes on Beretta M9. Really a slick gun with a cool image and according to many also very reliable. It's not really comparable items but for some reason my choice making process got stuck in between these 2. I alreadyown 2 compact pieces - Bersa Thunder 380 and a Taurus 85 (with 2" barell, 5 rounds of 3 spl.) - and generally i have a thing for compacts and subcompacts since i carry concealed most of the time but also feel like maybe its time for a full-size handgun. Another compromise i was thinking of is getting a full-size XD-9 but i don't really like the way it looks. I am 6'2" with relatively large hands and in most compacts i get only 4-finger grip and i really like that XD-9 sub comes with a second large capacity magazine which offers full grip. I don't expect you guys to solve this internal problem for me but i would certainly appreciate any feedback from those who used both guns or maybe had a similar dilemma. Any first-hand experience about egronomics, precision and reliability of both guns would be also highly appreciated!

    Thanks!

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    The XDs have a great record for reliability. Check out the torture test: http://springfield-armory.primediaou.../SPstory11.php

    For the XD9SC, Pierce makes a little pinkie extension that can be used with the compact magazine. This will give you a slightly bigger grip so maybe you can get a full grip even on the smaller mag.

    I can't comment on the others as I don't have prior experience with them.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    when you say "full size XD9" are you talking about the service (4") or tactical (5") barrel version? Same size grip, different length slide/barrel.

    The thing that jumps out at me with those choices is passive vs manual safeties. One thing I like about my 2 CC weapons is that neither have manual safties I have to remember to flip off in a panic situation. While that is simply a training/muscle memory issue, it is an issue I have chosen not to have to deal with. Just throwing it out there since you asked for opinions.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Thanks for your replies guys. As for absence of manual safeties it's a complicated issue since it also make the gun more dangerous in case of reckless handling (which i am very careful about but still makes me nervous since the last thing i want is to hurt someone whom i didn't intend to hurt. In case of no manual safeties i might choose to follow my conservative nature and carry with the empty chamber which at this point makes it less ready to fire in SD situation than a cock-and-locked handgun with manual safeties present. On the other hand, i've been carrying primarily my revolver fully loadedwhich technically equals a semi-auto with no manual safeties and one in the pipe. Still, my revolver has my heavier trigger pull than the XD and it also has open hammer which i always hold with my thumb when holstering the weapon (in case if any clothing somehow gets trapped in the trigger guard and forcing gun into the holster would pull the trigger. At the same time XD has grip safety but it needs a very light pressure to be disabled. I also heard that there was a considerable number of cases(when many PD's across the country started switching to Glock's from guns with manual safeties) whencops were accidentlyshooting their own feet while holstering the weapon. Most of these cases were due to a bad habit of having a finger partlyon thetrigger while holstering, but still... Other than that it really looks like XD is a superb weapon.

    P.S. When i said full size i meant service model, tactical one is just way too long in my opinion.

    Any other ideas?

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Chaingun81 wrote:
    Thanks for your replies guys. As for absence of manual safeties it's a complicated issue since it also make the gun more dangerous in case of reckless handling (which i am very careful about but still makes me nervous since the last thing i want is to hurt someone whom i didn't intend to hurt. In case of no manual safeties i might choose to follow my conservative nature and carry with the empty chamber which at this point makes it less ready to fire in SD situation than a cock-and-locked handgun with manual safeties present. On the other hand, i've been carrying primarily my revolver fully loadedwhich technically equals a semi-auto with no manual safeties and one in the pipe. Still, my revolver has my heavier trigger pull than the XD and it also has open hammer which i always hold with my thumb when holstering the weapon (in case if any clothing somehow gets trapped in the trigger guard and forcing gun into the holster would pull the trigger. At the same time XD has grip safety but it needs a very light pressure to be disabled. I also heard that there was a considerable number of cases (when many PD's across the country started switching to Glock's from guns with manual safeties) whencops were accidentlyshooting their own feet while holstering the weapon. Most of these cases were due to a bad habit of having a finger partlyon thetrigger while holstering, but still... Other than that it really looks like XD is a superb weapon.

    P.S. When i said full size i meant service model, tactical one is just way too long in my opinion.

    Any other ideas?
    The Glocks do not have a backstrap safety on them making them much more susceptible to an AD/ND from getting the trigger hung up on something. That last 2 ADs I read about with Glocks involved drawstrings pulling the trigger accidently when the owner was doing everthing else correctly. Doesn't make the Glock a bad weapon, it is just the nature of the weapon.

    Some XD owners subscribe to holstering the XD by holding the pistol normally with trigger finger along the slide and then putting your thumb on the back of the slide as you start to insert it in the holster. That ensures that your palm area under your thumb is not pushing the backstrap safety sufficiently to allow the pistol to discharge even if you were to catch the trigger in say a drawstring, and it also will not let the slide come out of battery more than about 1/8" even if the slide hangs up on the holster. I use this technique when holstering IWB sometimes if my waistband is a little tight.

    And while it is true that little force is required to disengage the backstrap safety, it must be fully depressed. If you want to check that, next time you go to a gun shop try this: The slide on the XD cannot be racked unless the backstrap safety is engaged. Try holding the pistol with your hand a bit twisted around the grip so that said safety is not fully depressed and attempt to rack the slide. It isn't going to happen. That also means that the sear lock is still engaged so the pistol couldn't discharge even if you pulled the trigger. Pull the trigger with a partially engaged backstrap safety and nada. You really have to be holding an XD pretty much in a proper grip to disengage all passive safeties and fire the weapon. And if you look at the torture test linked by eyesopened above, as well as Treasury Dept tests you will see that it is damn near impossible to accidently discharge an XD through rough handling. I am also rather conservative and after doing much studying on safety features, durability and other issues, I finally purchased the XD because of my conservative nature. It is very safe if dropped or banged, nearly impossible to AD, and when I need it, it is condition 1 and my natural draw and stance disables all safeties and allows it ready to be used right now.

    I'm not trying to sell you on the XD. I have no horse in that race. I just went into more detail above as you seem to be having the same concerns that I had when I chose my XD45. We sound like we are about the same size and I do find the XD9 compact/tactical to be a little short in the grip for me, but I have shot one with Pierce extensions and that is quite the comfortable set up for larger hands for a day at the range.

    As for other ideas, where to start? You already have 2 very different weapons you are considering so I wouldn't know where to begin. FWIW, when I went to buy an XD9 tactical to add a 9mm to the collection, I ended up at the last minute getting an excellent condition West German made Sig P228 with West German mags instead. Love that pistol too. Actually like it better than the XD9 in many ways. It also doesn't have any manual safeties and gets carried in condition 2. Still will probably get an XD9 tactical someday although if price wasn't an issue I would probably have to go for a Sig P226 first. Apparently you want to stick with 9mm. If you give some more info on what you want in a pistol I know the forum members will give you a book's worth of ideas on what to consider.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    The slide on the XD cannot be racked unless the backstrap safety is engaged. Try holding the pistol with your hand a bit twisted around the grip so that said safety is not fully depressed and attempt to rack the slide. It isn't going to happen.
    Did not know that! Thanks for sharing. Not that I don't believe you, but I'll have to try this when I get home. Trust but verify

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    eyesopened wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    The slide on the XD cannot be racked unless the backstrap safety is engaged. Try holding the pistol with your hand a bit twisted around the grip so that said safety is not fully depressed and attempt to rack the slide. It isn't going to happen.
    Did not know that! Thanks for sharing. Not that I don't believe you, but I'll have to try this when I get home. Trust but verify
    Always verify (with an unloaded firearm), especially with a deadly weapon!

    If the striker is in the forward, decocked position, you will get about 1/8" rearward movement from the slide. If the striker is cocked, round chambered or not, the slide will move back about 1/2", enough to look in the chamber and say, verify that you reloaded with JHP after using FMJs at the range, but not enough to eject the cartridge. Of course with the loaded chamber indicator on the slide, that probably doesn't come up a lot.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    125+ years of revolvers without external safeties and suddenly double action is awful.

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    eyesopened wrote:
    For the XD9SC, Pierce makes a little pinkie extension that can be used with the compact magazine. This will give you a slightly bigger grip so maybe you can get a full grip even on the smaller mag.
    Aren't the SCs soldwith a small mag and a full-sized mag with a plastic sleeve, giving you the normal-sized grip? IIRC, though, the SC is only 3/4" shorter than the Compact in length; the big difference is in height. If you're going to use the full-size mag to get a more comfortable grip, you might as well go with the Compact.
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Eeyore wrote:
    eyesopened wrote:
    For the XD9SC, Pierce makes a little pinkie extension that can be used with the compact magazine. This will give you a slightly bigger grip so maybe you can get a full grip even on the smaller mag.
    Aren't the SCs soldwith a small mag and a full-sized mag with a plastic sleeve, giving you the normal-sized grip? IIRC, though, the SC is only 3/4" shorter than the Compact in length; the big difference is in height. If you're going to use the full-size mag to get a more comfortable grip, you might as well go with the Compact.
    Yes, they do come with both mags as you describe. The compact is only in .45 and is also about 3/4" shorter than a standard grip .45. The sub compact is only 9/357/40/GAP and is as you said about 3/4" shorter than a standard grip 9/357/40/GAP. The .45 full grip is slightly longer (I'm guessing about a 1/2") than the others (although as we found out in another thread, the other exterior dimensions are almost exact excepting slide/barrel). A subcompact with a full size sleeved mag in it is longer than a compact w/short mag, but not as long as a compact with full size sleeved mag.

    I can only get 2 fingers on the grip of the sub and my pinky is under the mag. A pierce extension for me on the short mag doesn't work and actually makes it worse. On the long mag, the pierce is perfection for me. When I finally acquire an XD 9mm tactical, I will put pierce extension on all the mags as it give me the perfect feel. More comfy than my P228 (but don't tell her that). I only mention this because it is going to vary person to person depending on hand size. I have fired several hundred rounds through 9mm and .40cal XD subcompacts with both mag sizes, with and without pierce extensions. In contrast, I can just squeeze all 3 fingers onto my compact with the short mag, and very comfortably fit them onto the long mag w/sleeve.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Unfortunately BRA doesn't have XD's for rent.

    You might want to consider this one.

    http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=113

    5" bbl and two grip sizes to choose from
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    Gilberts has an XD for rent. Don't know the caliber http://www.gilbertrange.com/

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    I handled the XD40SC at the gun shop yesterday, used $475.00, I really liked the feel except on the short mag. I could not put my whole hand on the grip. When I put the extended mag in it felt great. I am seriously considering the XD9SC if I can get my wife on board.

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    I got a xd-40 service and I love it. I love my Sig 225 during the summer as it it a bit smaller. I always carry my XD at cond. 1 with no fear of AD/ND in my Serpa. It just feels so right. READY TO ROCK AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT. Push the botton on the Serpa, out she comes, finger indexed with one in the chamber. Does it get any easier?

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