• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Rifle Carry

D

Dave Workman

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
1,874
Location
, ,
imported post

the initial detention was illegal because the Terry stop was not based on RAS that a crime was afoot.
Click to expand...
"based on RAS that a crime was afoot???"

RAS....:question::question::question::question::question::question:

Is that some typo or are you just trying to sound cool? :D
 
H

heresolong

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
1,318
Location
Blaine, WA, ,
imported post

Dave Workman wrote:
the initial detention was illegal because the Terry stop was not based on RAS that a crime was afoot.
Click to expand...
"based on RAS that a crime was afoot???"

RAS....:question::question::question::question::question::question:

Is that some typo or are you just trying to sound cool? :D
Click to expand...
Reasonable Articulable Suspicion
 
Mainsail

Mainsail

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,533
Location
Silverdale, Washington, USA
imported post

Dave Workman wrote:
the initial detention was illegal because the Terry stop was not based on RAS that a crime was afoot.
Click to expand...
"based on RAS that a crime was afoot???"

RAS....:question::question::question::question::question::question:

Is that some typo or are you just trying to sound cool? :D
Click to expand...

The latter. :p

If I were the first to use the acronym I would have defined it, but I read it in someone's earlier post.
 
D

Dave Workman

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
1,874
Location
, ,
imported post

heresolong wrote:
Dave Workman wrote:
the initial detention was illegal because the Terry stop was not based on RAS that a crime was afoot.
Click to expand...
"based on RAS that a crime was afoot???"

RAS....:question::question::question::question::question::question:

Is that some typo or are you just trying to sound cool? :D
Click to expand...
Reasonable Articulable Suspicion
Click to expand...
Oh, man, don't use words that people can't pronounce, much less define. :lol::lol:
 
Johnny Law

Johnny Law

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
462
Location
Puget Sound, ,
imported post

I think one must consider the time of day, place, types of businesses nearby, etc. I have been on several "man with rifle" calls, and many times they are simply heading to or from a pawn shop, and have no vehicle. I certainly consider this ahead of time, as to whether or not they are in the vicinity of one.

I havebothtaken them down at gunpoint, and simply walked up and contacted, but that decision is the Officer'sto make based on the factors that are presented. There have been gunfights that broke out from contacts like these, but usually they are benign.

One man exited a pawn shop with a shotgun he had just purchased, and walked about2 blocks down the road. He then sat down behind a closed business and ate the shotgun. This man would probably have been contacted by Police, but he travelled such a short distance with the gun that I think no one saw him, or had time to take notice and call.

Obviously he was suicidal, which makes him very dangerous to Police (suicide by cop). Had he been contacted, you can clearly see the potential danger in the situation. I personally like tofollow a subject from behind at a safe distance while remaining in the car. While observing the person I will then decide how the contact is going to be conducted.
 
Gray Peterson

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
imported post

Everyone,

Workman does have a point. We do have bad case law in this state over slung rifle carry here with the Spencer ruling.

Also, open rifle carry has engendered a lot of controversy, even in states where it's completely legal without fail (recent events in Virginia).

We have a Legislature currently in session, and bills being put in the hopper as we speak. At the moment, there are no bills currently effecting open carry. That could change at any moment depending on how we behave ourselves, and I'm willing to bet that a "case and carry" bill will not have a CPL exemption this time around.
 
S

sv_libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
3,201
Location
Olympia, WA, ,
imported post

joeroket wrote:
heresolong wrote:
Johnny Law wrote:
There have been gunfights that broke out from contacts like these, but usually they are benign.
Click to expand...
What is a benign gunfight? :)
Click to expand...
Isn't it where they run around and yell "BANG! BANG!".
Click to expand...
Do I have to have a permit for my thumb and forefinger if I point them at someone and go "bang"?:p
 
P

Phssthpok

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
1,026
Location
, ,
imported post

I'm a little late to this party, but here's what strikes me about this 'controversy':

It all boils down to the difference between 'causing' alarm, and 'warranting' alarm. In attempting to differentiate between the two, I'm moved to concider the extreme. Some months back there was a girl that was featured on some daytime talk show (Oprah? Dr. Phil?) that was deathly afraid of Pickles.

You read that right....PICKLES. Cucumbers preserved with vinegar and dillweed. This girl would get downright convulsive with fear and panic if approaced with a pickle.

Now, looking past the obvious (a pickle does not generally posess a potential leathality) if I were to walk past this girl with a pickle in hand, she'd FREAK. I would have CAUSED her alarm. Is it warranted? I think not.

But according to what I'm reading from Dave Workman, it would be concidered WARRANTING alarm by the simple fact that she WAS alarmed, regardless of the fact that the alarm was purely a result of her own deep seeded fear of a preserved cucumber.

I apply the same litmus to a firearms situation. If the complainant is calling in to say they are alarmed simply because they have a deep seeded fear of firearms carried by someone without a badge (I call 'em Hoplo-phobic Bliss-ninny's), then despite the fact that alarm was CAUSED, it was not WARRANTED, regardless of whether it be a long gun or sidearm. If there was more to it than simply walking down the street (ninja-dress, carried in hand, skulking around, looking around to see if they are being observed, loading the gun/working the action as if preparing to fire, etc.) then I'd tend to agree that it WARRANTS alarm and is actionable.

Think of it this way:

If a situation WARRANTS alarm, then generally there WILL BE alarm. However, just because someone BECOMES alarmed, does not mean that it is WARRANTED. Think of the pickles.
 
B

B.R.A.S.S.

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
11
Location
, Washington, USA
imported post

I have walked down the street carring a rifle on several occasions, usually when going to or from the gun shop. The only time (several years ago) I have had an encouner with a police officer I was about a block and a half from Butch's gun shop. A cop drove by real slow. His window was down . I was carring a marlin 30.30 with no sling. as he came abreast I simple Yelled - spoke in a loud voice- " going to Butch's, it's empty" he nodded and drove off.:)
 
H

heresolong

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
1,318
Location
Blaine, WA, ,
imported post

The officer claimed that Spencer was carrying the rifle in "a hostile, assaultive type manner with the weapon ready". Yet the other witnesses stated that he had it slung over his shoulder. How is slung over your shoulder hostile, assaultive, or ready? These officers need some time in the infantry before they are allowed to comment on weapons.
 
D

Dave Workman

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
1,874
Location
, ,
imported post

The Spencer arrest occurred at about 10 p.m. and none of us were really there to see everything that happened. We only know what the court said in its ruling and that is really all that counts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top