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Thread: OC at UVSC

  1. #1
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    I got my concealed carry permit a few months ago and it wasnt until yesterday that I discovered this website and found out that OC was legal (for some reason my CCP instructor didnt let me in on that information). I showed up at a class that I had today with my XD on my hip and a few people in my class asked if it was legal and I told them yes and then referenced opencarry.org and to my surprise there were three other carriers in my class that decided to start carrying openly now. I got allot of weird looks from other students in the halls and I was just wondering if anyone has had problems with the campus police for OC?

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    I attend UVSC. But I can't seem to find any policy on weapons for the school at all. So I guess that I must assume that as long as we are following the state laws we must be okay in ocing there. I haven't yet due to not finding the policy.

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    Well I sent a letter to the policy people at UVSC and here is what I got back.

    Mr. Case:

    You will find the information about weapons on campus in the college's Policies and Procedures Manual which is available on the web at http://www.uvsc.edu/policies/

    The policy number is #541 Student Rights and Responsibilities. The specifics information about weapons on campus is located under the "General Responsibilities" section of this policy.

    In essence it states that bringing a weapon to campus is a form of misconduct under the students rights and responsibilities code. Use or storage of a weapon on campus may occur only with prior written approval of the Chief of Campus Police.

    I hope the above information is useful to you. If I can provide any additional information to you regarding this topic or other issues with institutional policies, please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Best regards,
    Nancy L. Bartlett
    Director, Institutional Compliance Assistance and Policy Facilitation Office of Institutional Development and Planning - MS272 Utah Valley State College 800 West University Parkway Orem, Utah 84058
    801-863-8156
    bartlena@uvsc.edu



    The part of the policy that was refered to in the letter states this:

    Use or possession of any weapon, explosive device, or fireworks on a
    person or storage of such on College property without prior written
    approval from the Chief of Campus Police.


    Is this even legal?It seems that we are in the same place like the U. Does anyone know if they can keep us from having firearms? What law does such?


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    rocknsnow wrote:

    Is this even legal?It seems that we are in the same place like the U. Does anyone know if they can keep us from having firearms? What law does such?

    Why wouldn't it be legal. While on their propery they cantake administrative action against you for not following their policy. If you refuse to comply with the policy and refuse to leave you can be charged with trespassing.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  5. #5
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Remember, without a concealed firearm permit, any type of firearm carry at school is unlawful.

    76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
    (1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
    (2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
    (b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
    (3) This section does not apply if: (a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
    (b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
    (c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
    (d) the possession is:
    (i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;
    (ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or
    (iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).
    (4) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.
    76-3-203.2. Definitions -- Use of dangerous weapon in offenses committed on or about school premises -- Enhanced penalties.
    (1) (a) As used in this section and Section 76-10-505.5, "on or about school premises" means any of the following:
    (i) in a public or private elementary, secondary, or on the grounds of any of those schools;
    (ii) in a public or private vocational school or postsecondary institution or on the grounds of any of those schools or institutions;
    (iii) in those portions of any building, park, stadium, or other structure or grounds which are, at the time of the act, being used for an activity sponsored by or through a school or institution under Subsections (1)(a)(i) and (ii);
    (iv) in or on the grounds of a preschool or child-care facility; and
    (v) within 1,000 feet of any structure, facility, or grounds included in Subsections (1)(a)(i), (ii), (iii), and (iv).

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    So we can carry there if we have a permit?

    Now my next question. Can you oc there if you have a permit? I don't quite understand all the laws when it pertains to the schools.

  7. #7
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    There is no law in Utah that requires you to conceal your firearm. No matter where you are. As long as it is legal to carry there, you may do so openly, or concealed if you have a permit.

    In Utah, a concealed firearm permit exempts you from three things...

    * Carrying concealed.
    * Carrying loaded.
    * Carrying in or about school property.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Thanks for the simple terms. I got it now.

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    UVSC is not a private school, they are funded by the state of Utah. While carrying there with a permit may be legal, it remains questionable if they can punish you for a student policy that is not law. Just try asking the campus Chief of Police if you can carry. Who knows, maybe he is a supporter!
    "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
    Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    The Chief of Police at UVSC is John Brewer. I would ask for permission to carry a firearm with a concealed firearm permit. I would not bring up your method of carry. He can be contacted at (801) 863-5555, or by email. brewerjc@uvsc.edu

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Good call on contacting the police chief. I will do so.

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    SGT Jensen wrote: [quote]The Chief of Police at UVSC is John Brewer. I would ask for permission to carry a firearm with a concealed firearm permit. I would not bring up your method of carry. He can be contacted at

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    Sorry i am new at the whole open carry and concealed, however; Here is what is kinda going on at the time with the schools as i attend the University of Utah.http://www.dailyutahchronicle.com/ho...9-8087b6f74a65Maybe we need to organize a meet on campus.

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    A little info to remember. Sorry no time for citations today.

    1-UVSC is government property and as such is bound by State pre-emption as upheld in the recent UoU v Shurtleff, State Supreme Court decision. They may NOT legally prohibit guns nor threaten ANY discipline over the lawful possession of firearms.



    2-UVSC (and every other college) IS considered a "school zone" under Utah State law, so possession of a gun is ILLEGAL UNLESS you have a valid permit to carry.



    3-Nothing in State law requires a permit holder to actually conceal his weapon, BUT the UoU is trying to make a stink on that issue and claim otherwise. I firmly believe they are incorrect. But be prepared to catch flack over OC.



    4-Under current circumstances, I would no more ask for permission to carry at a government run, taxpayer funded college than I would ask for permission to read a newspaper while on campus. If I were in the mood to tweak someone, I might send a letter (cc the AG's office) informing them that their policy is in direct and clear violation of State law and prevailing court precedence and that if they attempt to interfere with my legal rights in this regard my attorney will seek all legal redress.



    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Ok so here is what I did and what happened to me. I started carrying open and I had no problems for over a week but then one of my friends who decided to OC with me called me and told me he was being held by campus police. they let him off with a warning not to OC again. The next day my friend and I went to speak with an officer at the campus police headquarters. After I showed him sections of Utah Title law and the Utah supreme court decision with the UofU he told me that we do have the right to carry but not openly and he than told me that if I were seen OCing again that I would be givin a class b missdamenor and issued a tresspass order from UVSC. I went home and did more research on Utah law and decided to set up an appointment with the chief of police here at UVSC John Brewer. When my friend and I showed up to the appointment the campus police would not let us into their offices and 5 of them including John Brewer took us out into the hallway and cornered us telling us that we were in violation of the law and if we didnt stop questioning the campus police they would cite us with disrupting the peace and have us kicked out of UVSC. they then said to contact our lawyers and they demanded us to tell them the names of others that OC here on campus. I refused to tell them and then they thretened me with more things and than just said dont bother us again and went back into their offices. I then went to the administration building and they baisically said that the only thing I could do is contact the assistant atourney general David Jones and talk to him about it. So tomorrow I plan on not only contacting him but first contacting some media outlets and letting them know about what is happening. and that the officers wouldnt even look to the law in dealing with this. If anyone has any other ideas for me Please let me know because I will not be pushed around and denyed my rights any longer.

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Scooter, If you are a Friend of the Program, you will know what I am talking about.
    If not, here it is anyways. :P
    Tomorrow on the Radio From Hell show on X96, they will have Attorney General Mark Shurtleff on their "ask a ..." feature.
    Basically he will be on the radio answering questions for X96 listeners.
    Since he is the top LEO in the state, this might be a good time to call and ask him this question.
    I believe it will be sometime between 8 and 10 AM.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    scooter4 wrote:
    Ok so here is what I did and what happened to me.

    snip

    When my friend and I showed up to the appointment the campus police would not let us into their offices and 5 of them including John Brewer took us out into the hallway and cornered us telling us that we were in violation of the law and if we didnt stop questioning the campus police they would cite us with disrupting the peace and have us kicked out of UVSC. they then said to contact our lawyers .
    Funny that they claim you are violating some gun law, but the only charge they can come up with is tresspassing. I should think they'd be anxious to charge you with a gun violation...IF such a violation actually existed.

    Don't waste your time with the assistant AG. Go right to the top and contact Mark Shurtleff at 801-538-1191. His secretary is Helen. She is quite nice. Don't expect any help from the media. But maybe any press is good press on this one.

    Now, I am not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, and I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn anytime recently. I can tell you that retaining an attorney, even for a misdeanor charge is pricey. Figure $1500.

    For various personal reasons I'm not likely to engage in conduct that is likely to get me hit with such a charge. And I'd think a better option, is to get a laywer to draft a letter to the department demanding the cease and desist with all such harrassment and threats or a civil suit will be forthcoming. This is probably a better option than waiting to get arrested on some bogus charge.


    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  19. #19
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    I wasnt OCing at the time and they said that if I was they would cite me for that and then kick me off the property, but since I wasnt OCing at the time the only charge they were thretening me with was disturbing the peace and they said they would cite me for that and kick me off the property. I really dont know why they were so crazy about things. I was calm the whole time and kept on thanking them for their time and just kept on saying that I just want to understand the law better.

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    You guys will win eventually - just stay calm and be resolute!

  21. #21
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    scooter4 wrote:
    I wasnt OCing at the time and they said that if I was they would cite me for that and then kick me off the property, but since I wasnt OCing at the time the only charge they were thretening me with was disturbing the peace and they said they would cite me for that and kick me off the property. I really dont know why they were so crazy about things. I was calm the whole time and kept on thanking them for their time and just kept on saying that I just want to understand the law better.
    Can you record them in Utah? If so, get one of the pin recorders ASAP. Good Job...Keep it up.

  22. #22
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    Shawn wrote:
    scooter4 wrote:
    I wasnt OCing at the time and they said that if I was they would cite me for that and then kick me off the property, but since I wasnt OCing at the time the only charge they were thretening me with was disturbing the peace and they said they would cite me for that and kick me off the property. I really dont know why they were so crazy about things. I was calm the whole time and kept on thanking them for their time and just kept on saying that I just want to understand the law better.
    Can you record them in Utah? If so, get one of the pin recorders ASAP. Good Job...Keep it up.
    I dont know. Does anyone know about if that if legal? If so I will start doing it.

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    I carry a recorder and keep it running all day when I am away from home (runs for about 9-12hours on a set of batteries in voice activation mode). Idownloadit every night before bed and keep the recordings for 90 days (if something happens that I think is worth saving I keep it longer). Thishas gotten me out of hot water at work a few times andhas kept me having to pay a traffic ticket so it has well been worth the price.

  24. #24
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    What type of recorder do you use? I have thought about doing it. I have used the one on my cell phone before, but it is hard to use.

  25. #25
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    rocknsnow wrote:
    What type of recorder do you use? I have thought about doing it. I have used the one on my cell phone before, but it is hard to use.
    OLYMPUS DS-50.It is suposed to last 32 hours of use, but I am lucky to get 1/2 that. But you can record for like 270 hours if you need to (so if you are away from home for a few days you will be fine if you have enough AAA batteries)It runs like $200-$275 so it is not cheap, but I was tired of buying junky ones.

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