Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: New bill introduced to force ammo to be encoded

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis, ,
    Posts
    133

    Post imported post

    Unless you want to see a repeat here in Indiana of this idiotic idea from California, I suggest you call your legislator today.

    http://www.in.gov/apps/lsa/session/b...amp;docno=1260


    House Bill 1260
    DIGEST OF INTRODUCED BILL

    Encoded ammunition. Requires ammunition manufacturers to encode all ammunition: (1) provided for retail sale in Indiana; and (2) used in handguns and assault weapons; by July 1, 2009. Prohibits a person from selling ammunition at retail after June 30, 2009, unless the ammunition has been encoded by a manufacturer. Requires the superintendent of the state police department to establish and maintain an encoded ammunition data base before July 1, 2009. Requires ammunition manufacturers and persons who sell ammunition at retail to provide certain information concerning encoded ammunition sales and persons who purchase encoded ammunition to the superintendent for inclusion in the data base. Imposes a fee of $0.05 per round on the sale of encoded ammunition that is sold at retail. Requires the fees to be deposited in the encoded ammunition data base fund to operate the data base. Requires a person who owns ammunition for a handgun or assault weapon that is not encoded ammunition to dispose of the ammunition before July 1, 2011. Makes an appropriation.


  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    dirty dyer, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    59

    Post imported post

    wtf, i'm writing a letter today.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    Skippy wrote:
    Unless you want to see a repeat here in Indiana of this idiotic idea from California, I suggest you call your legislator today.

    http://www.in.gov/apps/lsa/session/b...amp;docno=1260


    House Bill 1260
    DIGEST OF INTRODUCED BILL

    Encoded ammunition. Requires ammunition manufacturers to encode all ammunition: (1) provided for retail sale in Indiana; and (2) used in handguns and assault weapons; by July 1, 2009. Prohibits a person from selling ammunition at retail after June 30, 2009, unless the ammunition has been encoded by a manufacturer. Requires the superintendent of the state police department to establish and maintain an encoded ammunition data base before July 1, 2009. Requires ammunition manufacturers and persons who sell ammunition at retail to provide certain information concerning encoded ammunition sales and persons who purchase encoded ammunition to the superintendent for inclusion in the data base. Imposes a fee of $0.05 per round on the sale of encoded ammunition that is sold at retail. Requires the fees to be deposited in the encoded ammunition data base fund to operate the data base. Requires a person who owns ammunition for a handgun or assault weapon that is not encoded ammunition to dispose of the ammunition before July 1, 2011. Makes an appropriation.
    Not quite the same as the California Law. This is way more restrictive. The California Law is about making the firing pin a "microstamp" that imprints the guns serial number on the primer on all handguns manufactured in or imported into California after a certain date.

    This new law makes the cost of a box of 100 rounds of any ammuntion go up $5.00, and mandates that the government keep a database of who buys the ammunition, how much, what caliber, how often.

    Lets say you go out target shooting every weekend and use 500 rounds. Who's to say the Government isn't going to flag you as a possible threat because you buy 24,000 rounds of ammunition each year. "This wacko isobviously storing up ammunition to prepare for an armed assault against Uncle Sam, so let's round him up for questioning, label him a suspected terrorist and send him to Gitmo."

    Better go to the Bank and withdraw a whole bunch of cash and buy a whole lot of ammo now and bury it in your backyard, before they require your name, address, phone number, social security number, passport, bloodtype, religious affiliation, political party, and time of last bowel movement.

    But wait, you can't even do that because you have to "dispose" of any and all uncoded ammuntion before 2011.

    George Orwell wouldn't be surprised.



  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,247

    Post imported post

    I would say that this bill is too dumb to ever even make it to committee but I would probably be wrong. How will this affect reloaders? Is each bullet encoded or the casing or both?

  5. #5
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    Since it would require you to get rid of any non-encoded ammunition by 2011, that to me sounds like it would make reloads out of the question as the text of the bill states:

    A) the base of the bullet and the inside of the cartridge casing of each round in a box of ammunition are encoded with the same serial number;


    So basically this means that if you shoot someone, and the bullet doesn't deform completely by hitting bone, then they can forensically trace the bullet back to the individual to whom it was sold and arrest them for murder. Unless of course, you trade ammunition with other people, i.e. not a sale. In which case thier system is screwed.


    HOUSE BILL No. 1260

    A BILL FOR AN ACT to amend the Indiana Code concerning public safety and to make an appropriation.


    Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Indiana:
    SOURCE: IC 10-13-7; (08)IN1260.1.1. --> SECTION 1. IC10-13-7 IS ADDED TO THE INDIANA CODE AS A NEW CHAPTER TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2008]:
    Chapter 7. Indiana Encoded Ammunition Data Base
    Sec. 1. As used in this chapter, "encoded ammunition" means ammunition that is encoded by a manufacturer under section 6 of this chapter.
    Sec. 2. As used in this chapter, "handgun" has the meaning set forth in IC35-47-1-6.
    Sec. 3. As used in this chapter, "manufacturer" means a person who possesses a federal license to engage in the business of manufacturing ammunition for sale or distribution.
    Sec. 4. As used in this chapter, "regulated firearm" means:
    (1) a handgun; or
    (2) any of the following assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which person produced and manufactured the assault weapon:
    [line]
    (A) American Arms Spectre da Semiautomatic carbine.
    (B) AK-47 in all forms.
    (C) Algimec AGM-1 type semiautomatic.
    (D) AR 100 type semiautomatic.
    (E) AR 180 type semiautomatic.
    (F) Argentine L.S.R. semiautomatic.
    (G) Australian Automatic Arms SAR type semiautomatic.
    (H) Auto-Ordnance Thompson M1 and 1927 semiautomatics.
    (I) Barrett light .50 caliber semiautomatic.
    (J) Beretta AR70 type semiautomatic.
    (K) Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle.
    (L) Calico models M-100 and M-900.
    (M) CIS SR 88 type semiautomatic.
    (N) Claridge HI TEC C-9 carbines.
    (O) Colt AR-15, CAR-15, and all imitations except Colt AR-15 Sporter H-BAR rifle.
    (P) Daewoo MAX 1 and MAX 2, also known as AR 100, 110C, K-1, and K-2.
    (Q) Dragunov Chinese made semiautomatic.
    (R) Famas semiautomatic (.223 caliber).
    (S) Feather AT-9 semiautomatic.
    (T) FN LAR and FN FAL assault rifle.
    (U) FNC semiautomatic type carbine.
    (V) F.I.E./Franchi LAW 12 and SPAS 12 assault shotgun.
    (W) Steyr-AUG-SA semiautomatic.
    (X) Galil models AR and ARM semiautomatic.
    (Y) Heckler and Koch HK-91 A3, HK-93 A2, HK-94 A2 and A3.
    (Z) Holmes model 88 shotgun.
    (AA) Avtomat Kalashnikov semiautomatic rifle in any format.
    (BB) Manchester Arms "Commando" MK-45, MK-9.
    (CC) Mandell TAC-1 semiautomatic carbine.
    (DD) Mossberg model 500 Bullpup assault shotgun.
    (EE) Sterling Mark 6.
    (FF) P.A.W.S. carbine.
    (GG) Ruger mini-14 folding stock model (.223 caliber).
    (HH) SIG 550/551 assault rifle (.223 caliber).
    (II) SKS with detachable magazine.
    (JJ) AP-74 Commando type semiautomatic.
    (KK) Springfield Armory BM-59, SAR-48, G3, SAR-3,
    M-21 sniper rifle, M1A, excluding the M1 Garand.
    (LL) Street sweeper assault type shotgun.
    (MM) Striker 12 assault shotgun in all formats.
    (NN) Unique F11 semiautomatic type.
    (OO) Daewoo USAS 12 semiautomatic shotgun.
    (PP) UZI 9mm carbine or rifle.
    (QQ) Valmet M-76 and M-78 semiautomatic.
    (RR) Weaver Arms "Nighthawk" semiautomatic carbine.
    (SS) Wilkinson Arms 9mm semiautomatic "Terry".
    Sec. 5. After June 30, 2009, a person may not sell ammunition at retail for a regulated firearm unless the ammunition has been encoded by a manufacturer as described in section 6 of this chapter.
    Sec. 6. (a) By July 1, 2009, a manufacturer shall encode all ammunition for regulated firearms provided for retail sale in Indiana:
    (1) in the manner provided under rules adopted by the superintendent; and
    (2) so that:
    (A) the base of the bullet and the inside of the cartridge casing of each round in a box of ammunition are encoded with the same serial number;
    (B) each serial number is engraved in a manner that is highly likely to allow identification after ammunition discharge and bullet impact; and
    (C) the outside of each box of ammunition is labeled with the name of the manufacturer and the same serial number used on the bases of bullets and cartridge casings contained in the box.
    (b) Ammunition described in subsection (a) that is contained in one (1) ammunition box may not be labeled with the same serial number as ammunition contained in any other ammunition box produced by the same manufacturer.
    Sec. 7. (a) The superintendent shall:
    (1) establish an encoded ammunition data base before July 1, 2009; and
    (2) maintain the data base after it is established.
    (b) After June 30, 2009, a manufacturer that does business in Indiana shall provide the following information to the superintendent for inclusion in the encoded ammunition data base:
    (1) The manufacturer's name and address.
    (2) The serial numbers of encoded ammunition offered for
    sale by the manufacturer in Indiana.
    (3) Any other information that the superintendent considers necessary.
    (c) After June 30, 2009, a person who sells encoded ammunition at retail in Indiana shall provide the following information to the superintendent for inclusion in the encoded ammunition data base:
    (1) The date of each encoded ammunition purchase.
    (2) The name and date of birth of each person who purchases encoded ammunition.
    (3) The driver's license number of each person who purchases encoded ammunition or another identification number issued to the person by the state or federal government.
    (4) The serial numbers of all encoded ammunition purchased by each person.
    (5) Any other information that the superintendent considers necessary.
    (d) A person who sells encoded ammunition at retail in Indiana shall maintain copies of all records submitted to the superintendent under subsection (c) for at least three (3) years after the date of a sale.
    Sec. 8. (a) This section does not apply to a sale of encoded ammunition to a federal, state, or local law enforcement agency.
    (b) A fee of five cents ($0.05) per round is imposed on the sale of encoded ammunition that is sold at retail in Indiana.
    (c) The person who sells encoded ammunition at retail in Indiana to the ultimate consumer of the encoded ammunition shall collect the fee imposed by this section.
    (d) A person who collects a fee under subsection (c):
    (1) shall pay the fees:
    (A) to the department of state revenue; and
    (B) at the same time and in the same manner that the person pays the state gross retail tax collected by the person to the department of state revenue;
    (2) shall indicate on the return:
    (A) prescribed by the department of state revenue; and
    (B) used for the payment of state gross retail taxes;
    that the person is also paying fees collected under subsection (c); and
    (3) may deduct and retain one percent (1%) of the fees required to be paid to the department of state revenue under this subsection.
    (e) The department of state revenue shall deposit fees collected
    under subsection (c) in the encoded ammunition data base fund established by section 9 of this chapter.
    Sec. 9. (a) The encoded ammunition data base fund is established to operate the encoded ammunition data base established under section 7 of this chapter. The fund shall be administered by the superintendent.
    (b) The expenses of administering the fund shall be paid from money in the fund.
    (c) The treasurer of state shall invest the money in the fund not currently needed to meet the obligations of the fund in the same manner as other public money may be invested. Interest that accrues from these investments shall be deposited in the fund.
    (d) Money in the fund at the end of a state fiscal year does not revert to the state general fund.
    (e) All money accruing to the fund is appropriated continuously for the purposes specified in subsection (a).
    Sec. 10. Before July 1, 2011, a person who owns ammunition for a regulated firearm that is not encoded ammunition shall dispose of the ammunition.
    Sec. 11. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally violates this chapter commits a Class A misdemeanor.
    (b) A person who knowingly or intentionally destroys or otherwise renders unreadable information encoded on encoded ammunition commits a Class A misdemeanor.
    Sec. 12. The superintendent shall adopt rules under IC4-22-2 necessary to implement this chapter.



    SOURCE: ; (08)IN1260.1.2. --> SECTION 2. [EFFECTIVE UPON PASSAGE] (a) The superintendent of the state police department shall adopt rules under IC4-22-2 to implement IC10-13-7, as added by this act, before January 1, 2009.
    (b) This SECTION expires January 2, 2009.


    SOURCE: ; (08)IN1260.1.3. --> SECTION 3. An emergency is declared for this act.




  6. #6
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    Another thing I just thought of while reading the entire text.

    Since the encoding is on the inside of the casing, and on the base of the bullet (the flat bottom), then how would anyone know if you were in possession of unencoded ammuntion purchased previous to the law or from out of state?

    They would essentiall have to confiscate your ammuntion, remove the bullet, dump the powderand see if there were matching serial numbers inside the casing and on the bullet base.

    Would possession of ammunition stored in anything but the original box with serial number on it be enough "probable cause" for them to confiscate and destroy your ammunition just to be sure it was all in compliance with this law?

    Let the goosestepping begin.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    East of Aurora, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    672

    Post imported post

    I don't even know what to say about this. It's mindboggling. I see two easy ways for criminals to get around this while the rest of the law abbiding population takes another one in the ass.

    1) They'll just start stealing ammo. A serial# doesn't due muchgoodif there is no one to track it to. Now there's another black market tax payer money will go towards fighting.

    2) Crimals will start loading their own ammo.

    Number two brings up another good point. Will I Have to stop reloading? Also there would have to be some serious restrictions put on gun ranges. They would have to start collecting and disposing of brass.

    Just can't do it enough.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    I wonder what the valuation of my supply of ammo will be if a requirement such as this were to pass - or will there be a bunch of other legislation trying to control the use of 'unregistered' ammo. What maroons.

    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense. Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armes where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******, 'members' may also.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    Beau wrote:
    CLIP:Will I Have to stop reloading?
    The answer is a resounding YES.

    The law would require you to dispose of ALL unencoded ammunition by 2011. Encoded ammo would need to have a seriel number inside the brass, and a matching serial number on the bottom of the bullet (not the shell). Reloads would not have the required matching serial number on the bullet. So, if you haven't shot all your ammo supply, (or buried it sealed in PVC pipe in your backyard for future contingencies), by 2011, you would be breaking the law by possessing unencoded ammo.


  10. #10
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    I wonder what the valuation of my supply of ammo will be if a requirement such as this were to pass - or will there be a bunch of other legislation trying to control the use of 'unregistered' ammo. What maroons.

    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense. Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armes where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******, 'members' may also.
    No need to pass any other legislation to control the use of unregistered (unencoded) ammo. If youviolate this law in any way, such as by possession of unencoded ammo, you will have commited a Class A misdemeanor.


    Sec. 10. Before July 1, 2011, a person who owns ammunition for a regulated firearm that is not encoded ammunition shall dispose of the ammunition.
    Sec. 11. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally violates this chapter commits a Class A misdemeanor.



  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis, ,
    Posts
    133

    Post imported post

    Just read over on glocktalk.com that (and I'm quoting here):

    "Indiana State Rep. VanHaaften, who is the Chairman of the committee that HB 1206 is in (requiring ammunition manufacturers to encode primers on pistol and rifle ammo sold in Indiana) has responded by writing he will not give HB 1206 a hearing."

    I don't know enough about politics to know if this means it's dead or not, but it sure sounds like it.

    Thanks in no small part to those citizens who let their legislators know how asinine this bill was.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Columbus, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    This would make handloadinga criminal offense in Indiana,come on there is no way this can happen ,after we got the "CASTLE DOCTRINE" and Lifetime Permits-Who is the idiot author of this bill ?,is there any police departments or Sheiff's Department along with ISP that supports this insane proposal

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Columbus, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    Tony Soprano wrote:
    This would make handloadinga criminal offense in Indiana,come on there is no way this can happen ,after we got the "CASTLE DOCTRINE" and Lifetime Permits-Who is the idiot author of this bill ?,is there any police departments or Sheiff's Department along with ISP that supports this insane proposal
    Skippy answered my question before I had a chance to read his post

  14. #14
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    East of Aurora, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    672

    Post imported post

    The author of this bill is William Crawford.He is a rep for Dist. 98. Here is his page. From his page you can also view all bills he has authored or co-authoredfor 2007-08.

    http://www.in.gov/legislative/house_...ord_index.html
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  15. #15
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    , Indiana, USA
    Posts
    1,606

    Post imported post

    Indiana residents, write in.

    I think we need to make some type of form letter, and get as many signatures as possible, then take the aggregate and send it in.

    I am happy to provide the letter and write it up, if I have support. If you are interested please PM me.

    -Ryan


  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1

    Post imported post

    I just saw HB 1260! Has this been killed yet? Can anyone confirm? Does anyone have a petition or form letter drawn up?


  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Columbus, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    154

    Post imported post

    shooter651 wrote:
    I just saw HB 1260! Has this been killed yet? Can anyone confirm? Does anyone have a petition or form letter drawn up?
    I contacted my state rep last month, and this one died.

    And my nice representative voted against it, and will again if necessary

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    camby, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    19

    Post imported post

    Hi all I'll sign it write it up.......:celebrate

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Indiana, ,
    Posts
    96

    Post imported post

    I understand that this one is dead, why couldn't I read the date of the first post before reading the whole thing. But I was just thinking of that $.05. My 100 count 9mm would go up from ~20 to ~$25. Thats bad, but whats worse is that my brick of 550 .22 would jump fro ~13 to ~$40! The tax would be double the cost of the ammunition. If that ain't robbery, I don't know what is.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •