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Thread: Free Bus Ride to Richmond from Virginia Tech

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    I'd like to hitch a ride if for no other reason to talk with those on the bus. Does anyone know who is organizing this and where I can find the place and time of departure?


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    I know the Million Mom March has a bus, but my head would probably explode after 4 hours with them...

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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    Even if you could stomach the 4 hour ride there - I doubt they would let you back on for the bus ride home.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    vt357 wrote:
    Even if you could stomach the 4 hour ride there - I doubt they would let you back on for the bus ride home.
    THAT was a concern I had :^). I talked to a lady at the Virginia Center for Public Safety about the bus ride today. We had a very nice long conversation. I told her I couldn't say I would support their position if I were to catch a ride with them but I did tell her that I wanted to talk with them to understand their viewpoints and the reasons behind them. I didn't come right out and say I was pro gun but that I really only wanted to know what was right - WHICH IS TRUE ACTUALLY.

    They do watch this board and others too I'd say. she knew that some were trying to hitch a free ride :^). My point with her was basically "Why can't we all get along" :^). The idea being this or that about guns is either right or wrong and if we both want a civil society then we should be able to get together and talk rationally about what is right and wrong and come to an agreement. I really do believe that the majority of pro and con fit this description - once you take away the fears and anxieties both have.

    I may track them down once I'm in Richmond. The main thing I said to her is how much the two sides do agree, it's just some prickly issues that divide.

    I'm sorry ma'am I forget your name, perhaps we'll meet in Richmond, if not please do send that material we talked about.

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    Good luck Nep. We tried being rational and talking to them. They are all batty and the kool-aid clouds their judgement. They want nothing short of a society where your guns are stored locked up at the range and you check them out for target practice and then return them to the range safe when you go home. Next step is getting rid of guns alltogether.

    They don't believe anyone should have a gun in the home for any reason. That's what the police are for. Just ask them, they'll tell you the same thing!

  6. #6
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    Good luck Nep. We tried being rational and talking to them. They are all batty and the kool-aid clouds their judgement. They want nothing short of a society where your guns are stored locked up at the range and you check them out for target practice and then return them to the range safe when you go home. Next step is getting rid of guns alltogether.

    They don't believe anyone should have a gun in the home for any reason. That's what the police are for. Just ask them, they'll tell you the same thing!
    I've protested and talked to the opposite side of various issues before. I find in groups where they are outnumbered or evenly opposed often people will be less "civil" and willing to speak rationally. That's why I saw the bus as a great opportunity in that they would be the majority (only me!) and if I acted passive, asking questions in order to get them to think of the other side of the argument, instead of challenging them with statements, I thought it might go well.

    You really have to get people off the defensive before they will be willing to possibly entertain the idea that although their desires for safety are good their methods are bad. I mean is there "anyone" on this forum that wants a bad guy to have a gun?! Of course not, but outlawing private sales, which is in effect a national gun registry, is not the way to do it.

    I told the lady from Virginia Center for Public Safety that that is what compulsive background checks mean. I then told her about my father's story of how during WWII the Nazis would enter a French town and the first thing they would do is go to the town hall and get the gun registry. They would then know who had a gun and exactly what guns they had. I then said they would show up at your door and you DAMN well better have those guns. Because if you didn't they were going to take you someplace "unpleasant" in order to find out where they went.

    I told her the pros reasonings ultimately were a little esoteric in that not many people think that way. But the threat is still real and that is why the Founding Fathers wrote the 2cd Amendment. (Unfotunately I didn't quite say it as well as I am here).

    So if you're reading this ma'am please accept my appologizes. I would still really love to discuss your views in a non-threatning way, just like we did Friday evening.

    John (she knows my name, even knows where I live now......)

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    ...did you take the bus?
    -Unrequited

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    unrequited wrote:
    ...did you take the bus?
    They wouldn't let me :^). Said there would be victims and parent's of victims there so I wouldn't fit in. Even though we had a nice conversation over the phone and of course I would never want to offend anyone that didn't need it, which they don't. My main interest was to understand why they came to such a conclusion as they have.

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    unrequited wrote:
    ...did you take the bus?
    They wouldn't let me :^). Said there would be victims and parent's of victims there so I wouldn't fit in. Even though we had a nice conversation over the phone and of course I would never want to offend anyone that didn't need it, which they don't. My main interest was to understand why they came to such a conclusion as they have.
    Yes, dissent does seem to really offend them, doesn't it?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    John,

    If the world were populated by people who felt as you do, it would be a better place. Unfortunately, it isn't and never will be!

    It was a good gesture though.

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    They wouldn't let me :^). Said there would be victims and parent's of victims there so I wouldn't fit in. Even though we had a nice conversation over the phone and of course I would never want to offend anyone that didn't need it, which they don't. My main interest was to understand why they came to such a conclusion as they have.
    That would just be onerous if you took the bus.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    wchiang wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    They wouldn't let me :^). Said there would be victims and parent's of victims there so I wouldn't fit in. Even though we had a nice conversation over the phone and of course I would never want to offend anyone that didn't need it, which they don't. My main interest was to understand why they came to such a conclusion as they have.
    That would just be onerous if you took the bus.
    Perhaps but I make it like a game where you ask questions for them to answer so they do most of the talking and explaining. It takes skill and "patience", I usually find that it takes upwards of three hours or more to get someone to use their own reasoning to arrive at your conclusion (assuming yours is rational and right).

    It is most gratifying to see the expression on their face when they finally realize the truth of your position when they were doing most all the talking. It really is like an electric shock to them. I've had people jump up from their seat and say "I've got to go!" and run off. In all the times I've done this it is almost always right around three hours from the start of the conversation to the epiphany.



  13. #13
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Neplusultra wrote:
    wchiang wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    They wouldn't let me :^). Said there would be victims and parent's of victims there so I wouldn't fit in. Even though we had a nice conversation over the phone and of course I would never want to offend anyone that didn't need it, which they don't. My main interest was to understand why they came to such a conclusion as they have.
    That would just be onerous if you took the bus.
    Perhaps but I make it like a game where you ask questions for them to answer so they do most of the talking and explaining. It takes skill and "patience", I usually find that it takes upwards of three hours or more to get someone to use their own reasoning to arrive at your conclusion (assuming yours is rational and right).

    It is most gratifying to see the expression on their face when they finally realize the truth of your position when they were doing most all the talking. It really is like an electric shock to them. I've had people jump up from their seat and say "I've got to go!" and run off. In all the times I've done this it is almost always right around three hours from the start of the conversation to the epiphany.

    If you want I will post some of the rules for this kind of questioning/education. I'd have to think about it, it's been "years" since I've done it. But basically it follows the Socratic ideal of debate. As explained to me by some guy at the Richmond Advocacy Day thingy. I hadn't realized how much Socrates and I had in common until then.

    If you're that guy at the advocacy day thing, let me know. I'd like to hear more about how I and the famous guy might agree on the rules of civil debate.

    John

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