Open or Closed bottom Holster?

Sheldon · Jan 19, 2008

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When you OC there are advantages to each, Me I use a closed bottom holster when out in the desert, keeps me from accidentally jamming something in the barrel when I am crawling around picking up mineral samples. Open bottom rest of the time (to prevent any lint from getting packed in there).

Here in Mi they use to classify any handgun inclosed bottom holster as Concealed, but it has been a few years since they actually hit anyone on that one.

So which do you prefer and reasons for or against?

Superlite27 · Jan 20, 2008

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6 one way, 1/2 dozen the other.

I prefer an open bottom holster. I can see the muzzle and confirm there are no obstructions. It also allows any possible obstructions to fall out the bottom if anything gets in it while my pistol is out of its holster.

Although, the benefit of a closed bottom holster would be better protection of the muzzle from anything that might enter it from the bottom.

I'm not familiar with any kind of crap that would fall up, though.

vmathis12019 · Jan 20, 2008

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Open bottom. It's just what I have.

unrequited · Jan 21, 2008

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Open so nothing gets caught in there to scratch up the gun.

Curiously, let's say you had an open bottom and kneeled down in the forest and a stick jams right into the barrel. Could this force be enough to strike the cartridge from the front end into firing? (even without the pin being exposed)

deepdiver · Jan 21, 2008

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I guess it is theoretically possible for something to jam into an open bottom holster in the woods, but I would think it unlikely. All of my holsters are open bottom.

Fallschirjmäger · Jan 22, 2008

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Closed bottom = concealed, Open-bottom = open carry? What if I drill a .0064 hole in the bottom of a holster what would that be considered? Or..hmmmmm..... what if someone takes an open bottom holster and makes the opening just a smidge smaller, would that change things from open carry to concealed.

I'd love to see a citation for Michigan's law on the matter.

Venator · Jan 22, 2008

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Sheldon wrote:

Here in Mi they use to classify any handgun inclosed bottom holster as Concealed, but it has been a few years since they actually hit anyone on that one.

Sheldon, this is not true. Cite the reference to open vs closed holster. This was addressed on the Michigan page. The AG opinion on brandishing never mentions open vs closed holsters. All that is needed for open carry is a holster in plain site.

irfner · Jan 22, 2008

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I have both and like them both. It depends onthe environment I plan on OCing infor which is better. When sitting an open bottom can allow the muzzle to come in contact with debris pushed up from below. While it is not likely there are situations where it could become an issue. For example when sitting on a hillside in the snow. Or what kind of brushI amwalking through? Dropping debris into the holster from above is also unlikely as long as the gun is in the holster but it could happen. Especially if you are out in the rain or doing something where the holster could be filled with liquid. You know like wrestling pigs in a pin.Things like that. Working in a machine shopcould subject your carry ensemble to debris small enough to get past the gun and lodge in the holster. Fortunately most of the time it just doesn't matter. The best protection for the gun might be a flap holster of some sort but then there is the access issue. So use what you got and be careful when needed.

But that brings up a good question. Is a full flap holster open carry or concealed?

Sheldon · Jan 23, 2008

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Venator wrote:

Sheldon wrote:

Here in Mi they use to classify any handgun inclosed bottom holster as Concealed, but it has been a few years since they actually hit anyone on that one.

Click to expand...

Sheldon, this is not true. Cite the reference to open vs closed holster. This was addressed on the Michigan page. The AG opinion on brandishing never mentions open vs closed holsters. All that is needed for open carry is a holster in plain site.

Go for aride in the way back machine, being an old guy I am referencing back in the 60's and early 70's likely before most of you had your first BB gun.

Although we are a big hunting state the place was very hostile to gun owners. N one of those previous AG opinions was one that went contrary to state law whichclassified all black powder muzzle loading guns as not needing a green card, that changed in the mid 70's and we just recently fixed that one.

Speaking of Green cards which we are still stuck with.OC got you some severe questioning and maybe a ride down town, the only way you could get a permit to CC was if you knew and were real good friends with every one on the gun board, andit was still rare for someone to get a general permit. CC N OC Shall issue, things have definitely gotten better thanks to the grass roots movements.

N as to a stick entering the barrel, I would be more paranoid about it getting stuck in there and not noticing it until it is too late, out in the desert I have had stuff get stuck in real weird areas which usually enlist a "What The!!" when found.

Venator · Jan 24, 2008

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Sheldon wrote:

Venator wrote:

Sheldon wrote:

Here in Mi they use to classify any handgun inclosed bottom holster as Concealed, but it has been a few years since they actually hit anyone on that one.

Click to expand...

Sheldon, this is not true. Cite the reference to open vs closed holster. This was addressed on the Michigan page. The AG opinion on brandishing never mentions open vs closed holsters. All that is needed for open carry is a holster in plain site.

Click to expand...

Go for aride in the way back machine, being an old guy I am referencing back in the 60's and early 70's likely before most of you had your first BB gun.

Although we are a big hunting state the place was very hostile to gun owners. N one of those previous AG opinions was one that went contrary to state law whichclassified all black powder muzzle loading guns as not needing a green card, that changed in the mid 70's and we just recently fixed that one.

Speaking of Green cards which we are still stuck with.OC got you some severe questioning and maybe a ride down town, the only way you could get a permit to CC was if you knew and were real good friends with every one on the gun board, andit was still rare for someone to get a general permit. CC N OC Shall issue, things have definitely gotten better thanks to the grass roots movements.

N as to a stick entering the barrel, I would be more paranoid about it getting stuck in there and not noticing it until it is too late, out in the desert I have had stuff get stuck in real weird areas which usually enlist a "What The!!" when found.

Again you have not given a citation of a closed holster being considered a concealed weapon. Open carry in Michigan is not common because until recently a person could only have an unloaded and secured handgun transported in a vehicle under some very restricted reasons. You could not just drive around with your secured and unloaded handgun and then get out of your vehicle and strap on your handgun and walk around town. And as you say things are different today and a person that does not have a CPL can now transport a secured and unloaded handgun almost anywhere in Michigan. This has allowed people the option to open carry,an option that hasnot been allowed in decades.

Doug Huffman · Jan 24, 2008

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Venator wrote:

Sheldon wrote:

Sheldon, this is not true. Cite the reference to open vs closed holster. This was addressed on the Michigan page. The AG opinion on brandishing never mentions open vs closed holsters. All that is needed for open carry is a holster in plain site.

Click to expand...

Go for aride in the way back machine, being an old guy I am referencing back in the 60's and early 70's likely before most of you had your first BB gun.

Click to expand...

Again you have not given a citation of a closed holster being considered a concealed weapon

FWIW I'm older than you
and probably more experienced too
but what does that have to do...

Two observations for the lying pariah; still failing to back up his 'blanks' with ammunition, and the contrapositive of an argument from authority ("being an old guy") is a personal attack ad hominem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

An appeal to authority or argument by authority is a type of argument in logic, consisting on basing the truth value of an assertion on the authority, knowledge or position of the person asserting it. [...] The corresponding reverse case would be an ad hominem attack: to imply that the claim is false because the asserter lacks authority or is otherwise objectionable.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$

Fallschirjmäger · Jan 24, 2008

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In the '70's I was carrying an M16 and putting my knees in the breeze on Uncle Sammie's dime, so my memory goes pretty far back.

As Doug Huffman has already mentioned, ALL you hav done is relate something from your distant memory. Either post a citation from state law, or withdraw your statement as being factual.

vmathis12019 · Jan 24, 2008

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Fallschirmjäger wrote:

As Doug Huffman has already mentioned, ALL you hav done is relate something from your distant memory. Either post a citation from state law, or withdraw your statement as being factual.

+1 from vmathis. Cite a state law, or admit your statements are heresay.

Marco · Jan 24, 2008

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You should have provided a link to your source.

OCDO works better with them.

:idea:Without a cite theinfo is useless:exclaim:and only amounts to one persons rantings.

DrewGunner · Jan 24, 2008

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Superlite27 wrote:

I prefer an open bottom holster. I can see the muzzle and confirm there are no obstructions. It also allows any possible obstructions to fall out the bottom if anything gets in it while my pistol is out of its holster.

Although, the benefit of a closed bottom holster would be better protection of the muzzle from anything that might enter it from the bottom.

+1

I've got an open bottom serpa. Which allows me to carry my 3'' XD or my 5'' XD.

DreQo · Jan 24, 2008

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I think I would prefer open bottom holsters, just to keep anything from collecting in there. Some people mentioned that an open-bottom holster leaves the muzzle vulnerable to sticks and such while you're out in the woods. This is true, but with a closed bottom holster, a twig or something could easily fall into the holster while the gun is in your hands, and if you happen to reholster w/o checking, you could smash your gun down on whatever is in the holster.

irfner wrote:

But that brings up a good question. Is a full flap holster open carry or concealed?

When referencing whether or not a gun is concealed, most Stateslaws state,in some form,that if the gun is"clearly visible and/or easily recognizable" then it is not concealed. This leads me to believe that holsters like the ones pictured belowdo not conceal the weapon, since they are still very easily recognizable as a weapon.

IANAL and I don't have a cite for this. This is just my logical analysis of the situation. I think from a practical point of view, they're not concealed at all. At the same time, I could see how a stupid law or stupid interpretation of a law could call it technically concealed. I doubt it wouldhold up in court even then, though.

Sheldon · Jan 24, 2008

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Fallschirmjäger wrote:

In the '70's I was carrying an M16 and putting my knees in the breeze on Uncle Sammie's dime, so my memory goes pretty far back.

As Doug Huffman has already mentioned, ALL you hav done is relate something from your distant memory. Either post a citation from state law, or withdraw your statement as being factual.

Unfortunately memory is sometimes all you have for reference. This event happeded to the best of my recolectionin the fall of 1971-2 during rabbit season, before the internet, when most records were kept on micro film or in a big cabinet, and was never to the best of my knowledge ever convereted to a file that I know how to find and post a link to.

But the Battle Creek City police did arrest a guy for entering a business with a closed bottom holster citeing the reason to be CC WO a permit, the story wasin a local rag called the Enquire N News.

Back then it was not too unsual for someone that had been hunting to go into a place like a restarant during hunting season with all your guns in tow, (they still do this in the upper part of the state) the guy only had a .22 revolver and had claimed to have been out hunting previously.

Heck things were so loose back then I built a gun (flint lock pistol) in HS shop class, N got a good grade on it too. Still have it in the gun safe but I cannot give you a link to that either.

The DNR had not gotten as Natzi as they are now, and it was small game season. This story started quite a discussion at the "Marine Gun Shop" were I hung out. No I do not remember reading how the trial came out. Even back then carrying a gun into a store may have been front page news but the part wheretheywere deemed inocentwas usually burried someplace way back in the paper.

I will tell you what if you cansteerme to a link where I can search forthis story, that was written up before they started putting the stuff on a big HD tied to a viewable network like they do today I will spend some time looking for it, but even our local Library does not have the old new stories avilable online if you wantthem you still have to go through a miciro, and ask the attendent to make you a hard copy once found.

So untill then I guess just like your claim of "carrying an M16 and putting my knees in the breeze on Uncle Sammie's dime," without you posting a valid link you never did it... after all it is just your memory you are quoting.

Venator · Jan 25, 2008

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Sheldon wrote:

Fallschirmjäger wrote:

In the '70's I was carrying an M16 and putting my knees in the breeze on Uncle Sammie's dime, so my memory goes pretty far back.

As Doug Huffman has already mentioned, ALL you hav done is relate something from your distant memory. Either post a citation from state law, or withdraw your statement as being factual.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately memory is sometimes all you have for reference. This event happeded to the best of my recolectionin the fall of 1971-2 during rabbit season, before the internet, when most records were kept on micro film or in a big cabinet, and was never to the best of my knowledge ever convereted to a file that I know how to find and post a link to.

But the Battle Creek City police did arrest a guy for entering a business with a closed bottom holster citeing the reason to be CC WO a permit, the story wasin a local rag called the Enquire N News.

Back then it was not too unsual for someone that had been hunting to go into a place like a restarant during hunting season with all your guns in tow, (they still do this in the upper part of the state) the guy only had a .22 revolver and had claimed to have been out hunting previously.

Heck things were so loose back then I built a gun (flint lock pistol) in HS shop class, N got a good grade on it too. Still have it in the gun safe but I cannot give you a link to that either.

The DNR had not gotten as Natzi as they are now, and it was small game season. This story started quite a discussion at the "Marine Gun Shop" were I hung out. No I do not remember reading how the trial came out. Even back then carrying a gun into a store may have been front page news but the part wheretheywere deemed inocentwas usually burried someplace way back in the paper.

I will tell you what if you cansteerme to a link where I can search forthis story, that was written up before they started putting the stuff on a big HD tied to a viewable network like they do today I will spend some time looking for it, but even our local Library does not have the old new stories avilable online if you wantthem you still have to go through a miciro, and ask the attendent to make you a hard copy once found.

So untill then I guess just like your claim of "carrying an M16 and putting my knees in the breeze on Uncle Sammie's dime," without you posting a valid link you never did it... after all it is just your memory you are quoting.

Sheldon you still don't understand. If you had mentioned this story from the beginning and said as far as I remember this or that happened, that would have been fine. But you stated it as a fact that closed holsters were considered illegal in Michigan. You are free to relate stories but be sure to modify it by saying as far as I can remember it may or may not have been against the law to do this or that. You really shouldn't say something is a fact when it's your opinion of something that may have happened.

Bad arrests are made everyday, anyone can be arrested for anything, that doesn't mean the action that you were arrested for was illegal.

You are free to state anything you want, but if you want to state something as a legal fact it helps your credibility if you includea citation or two.

Sheldon · Jan 26, 2008

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Venator wrote:

Sheldon you still don't understand. If you had mentioned this story from the beginning and said as far as I remember this or that happened, that would have been fine. But you stated it as a fact that closed holsters were considered illegal in Michigan. You are free to relate stories but be sure to modify it by saying as far as I can remember it may or may not have been against the law to do this or that. You really shouldn't say something is a fact when it's your opinion of something that may have happened.

Bad arrests are made everyday, anyone can be arrested for anything, that doesn't mean the action that you were arrested for was illegal.

You are free to state anything you want, but if you want to state something as a legal fact it helps your credibility if you includea citation or two.

I stand corrected my verbiage skills are not what they use to be, but I knew what I meant, aren't any of you mind reader's,; )For me a while back means a few years and the rest it can be a few months, it is all a matter of perspective. I really need to get in the habit of hitting the "Preview" tab before the "Send"

nh92d · Jan 27, 2008

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i voted open bottom because that's what i own.

to be honest,open bottom holsters have been only ones i've looked at when shopping for one..never really thought of it till now :quirky

i do own one of those(tan) but mines worn alotmore then those and not to mention my beretta doesn't fit.it was given to me while back and it's got 1918 date stampedon back..

Open or Closed bottom Holster?

Which do you prefer Open or Closed bottom Holster?

Open bottom Holster.

Closed bottom Holster.

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