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OC'ing at a postal location in a minute mart

nathan

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I OC'd into a gas station the other day and it happened to also be a post office/postal location. The post office is probably leasing the space from a private company so it wouldn't be considered a federal building.. or would it?

The day I bought gas I didn't go into the postal area, but today I need to go mail a package. Should I ge OK OC'ing?
 

nathan

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sv_libertarian wrote:
I would guess as long as you didn't enter the post office proper you would be okay.
They aren't really separated, just different parts of the same counter. And today I need to use the postal service. Can I expect to see a No Guns sign if it is considered federal property?
 

joeroket

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The no guns on federal property, I don't believe, cover postal property. There is a seperate federal code that prohibits firearms on postal property. It is covered under Title 39 Section 232.1. I would assume that if it is leased by the postal service then it would be considered postal propert because they are in direct control of the property.
 

nathan

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I looked very carefully and didn't see 232.1 posted anywhere so either they're slacking or post office/minit marts aren't postal property.

§232.1Conduct on postal property. (a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property.
 

nathan

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nathan wrote:
I looked very carefully and didn't see 232.1 posted anywhere so either they're slacking or post office/minit marts aren't postal property.

I left my gun in the car just in case if anyone was wondering.
 

Dave_pro2a

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PO carry is legal imho, but doing open carry in the PO is volunteering to be a test case. Best have deep pockets.



Post office is not Federal.
 

joeroket

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Dave_pro2a wrote:
PO carry is legal imho, but doing open carry in the PO is volunteering to be a test case. Best have deep pockets.



Post office is not Federal.
So the code I referenced above is invalid, is that what you are saying Dave?
 

Doug Huffman

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USC Title 18

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous
weapons in Federal facilities
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever
knowingly possesses or causes to be present
a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal
facility (other than a Federal court facility),
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under
this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or
both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or
other dangerous weapon be used in the commission
of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes
to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon
in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall
be fined under this title or imprisoned not more
than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course
of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the
course of an attack on a Federal facility involving
the use of a firearm or other dangerous
weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an
act, shall be punished as provided in sections
1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties
by an officer, agent, or employee of the United
States, a State, or a political subdivision
thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in
or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation,
or prosecution of any violation of
law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous
weapon by a Federal official or a member
of the Armed Forces if such possession is
authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other
dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident
to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever
knowingly possesses or causes to be present
a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts
to do so, shall be fined under this title,
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct
which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection
(d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of
a court of the United States to punish for contempt
or to promulgate rules or orders regulating,
restricting, or prohibiting the possession
of weapons within any building housing such
court or any of its proceedings, or upon any
grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ‘‘Federal facility’’ means a
building or part thereof owned or leased by the
Federal Government, where Federal employees
are regularly present for the purpose of performing
their official duties.
(2) The term ‘‘dangerous weapon’’ means a
weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance,
animate or inanimate, that is used for,
or is readily capable of, causing death or serious
bodily injury, except that such term does
not include a pocket knife with a blade of less
than 21⁄2 inches in length.
(3) The term ‘‘Federal court facility’’ means
the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness
rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference
rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices
of the court clerks, the United States attorney,
and the United States marshal, probation
and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of
any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a)
and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each
public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice
of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously
at each public entrance to each Federal
court facility, and no person shall be convicted
of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with re§
931 TITLE 18—CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE Page 232
spect to a Federal facility if such notice is not
so posted at such facility, unless such person
had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the
case may be.
(Added Pub. L. 100–690, title VI, § 6215(a), Nov. 18,
1988, 102 Stat. 4361; amended Pub. L. 101–647, title
XXII, § 2205(a), Nov. 29, 1990, 104 Stat. 4857; Pub.
L. 103–322, title VI, § 60014, Sept. 13, 1994, 108
Stat. 1973; Pub. L. 104–294, title VI, § 603(t), (u),
Oct. 11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3506; Pub. L. 107–56, title
VIII, § 811(b), Oct. 26, 2001, 115 Stat. 381.)
AMENDMENTS
2001—Subsec. (c). Pub. L. 107–56 struck out ‘‘or attempts
to kill’’ after ‘‘A person who kills’’, inserted ‘‘or
attempts or conspires to do such an act,’’ before ‘‘shall
be punished’’, and substituted ‘‘1113, and 1117’’ for ‘‘and
1113’’.
1996—Subsec. (e)(2). Pub. L. 104–294, § 603(t), substituted
‘‘subsection (d)’’ for ‘‘subsection (c)’’.
Subsec. (g). Pub. L. 104–294, § 603(u)(1), redesignated
subsec. (g), related to posting notice in Federal facilities,
as (h).
Subsec. (h). Pub. L. 104–294, § 603(u)(2), substituted
‘‘(e)’’ for ‘‘(d)’’ wherever appearing.
Pub. L. 104–294, § 603(u)(1), redesignated subsec. (g), related
to posting notice in Federal facilities, as (h).
1994—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 103–322, § 60014(2), substituted
‘‘(d)’’ for ‘‘(c)’’.
Subsecs. (c) to (g). Pub. L. 103–322, § 60014(1), (3), added
subsec. (c) and redesignated former subsecs. (c) to (f) as
(d) to (g), respectively.
1990—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 101–647, § 2205(a)(1), inserted
‘‘(other than a Federal court facility)’’ after ‘‘Federal
facility’’.
Subsecs. (d), (e). Pub. L. 101–647, § 2205(a)(2), (3), added
subsec. (d) and redesignated former subsec. (d) as (e).
Former subsec. (e) redesignated (f).
Subsec. (f). Pub. L. 101–647, § 2205(a)(2), redesignated
subsec. (e) as (f). Former subsec. (f) redesignated (g).
Subsec. (f)(3). Pub. L. 101–647, § 2205(a)(4), added par.
(3).
Subsec. (g). Pub. L. 101–647, § 2205(a)(5), inserted ‘‘and
notice of subsection (d) shall be posted conspicuously
at each public entrance to each Federal court facility,’’
after ‘‘each Federal facility,’’, ‘‘or (d)’’ before ‘‘with respect
to’’, and ‘‘or (d), as the case may be’’ before the
period.
Pub. L. 101–647, § 2205(a)(2), redesignated subsec. (f) as
(g).
EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1990 AMENDMENT
Section 2205(b) of Pub. L. 101–647 provided that: ‘‘The
amendments made by subsection (a) [amending this
section] shall apply to conduct engaged in after the
date of the enactment of this Act [Nov. 29, 1990].’’
 

joeroket

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Like I said before Postal Property is covered under Title 39 section 232.1.

TITLE 39--POSTAL SERVICE

CHAPTER I--UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE

PART 232--CONDUCT ON POSTAL PROPERTY--Table of Contents

Sec. 232.1 Conduct on postal property.


(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may
carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either
openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for
official purposes.
 

ijusam

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Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
322
Location
Kent county, Delaware, USA
imported post

joeroket wrote:
Like I said before Postal Property is covered under Title 39 section 232.1.

TITLE 39--POSTAL SERVICE

CHAPTER I--UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE

PART 232--CONDUCT ON POSTAL PROPERTY--Table of Contents

Sec. 232.1 Conduct on postal property.


(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may
carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either
openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for
official purposes.

What exactly is "official purposes"?

(2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and
regulations in this section while on property under the charge and
control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or
imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both.
 

amlevin

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Messages
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Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
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If the clerks were efficient and polite, chances are it is not a real Post Office, just a contract location. If they were rude, closed the window in front of you to take a brake, and looked at you like you had dog doo-doo in your hair, you were in the real thing.

I wouldn't worry unless you see a sign. No sign, no prohibition. FWIW, all the real Post Offices around here have the big "Ghostbuster" sign in the door or up front where you can see it.
 

nathan

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Messages
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Location
Vancouver, Washington, USA
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There was only one clerk and she was very nice.


USC Title 18 §930 seems to say that it isn't illegal to carry a firearm in a federal building (except a court house). Why is it 'common knowledge' that federal buildings are off limits to legal firearms?
 

just_a_car

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Messages
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Location
Auburn, Washington, USA
imported post

amlevin wrote:
If the clerks were efficient and polite, chances are it is not a real Post Office, just a contract location. If they were rude, closed the window in front of you to take a brake, and looked at you like you had dog doo-doo in your hair, you were in the real thing.

I wouldn't worry unless you see a sign. No sign, no prohibition. FWIW, all the real Post Offices around here have the big "Ghostbuster" sign in the door or up front where you can see it.

Not true on the latter...

Edmonds Post Office doesn't have any signage; I looked very hard at all the entrances prior to entry. Only after I was in line for 10 minutes did I see the small sign on the back wall that said firearms weren't allowed.
 

kparker

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Messages
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Tacoma, Washington, USA
imported post

amlevin,

Sorry your local post offices are filled with hostile employees; our down here in Tacoma seem quite friendly and ready to help.
 

Doug Huffman

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Messages
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Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
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joeroket wrote:
The no guns on federal property, I don't believe, cover postal property. There is a seperate federal code that prohibits firearms on postal property. It is covered under Title 39 Section 232.1. I would assume that if it is leased by the postal service then it would be considered postal propert because they are in direct control of the property.
This version of USC Title 39, http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title39/title39.html, doesn't seem to have a 'Section 232,' rather the highest Section number is 208 addressing "Reservation of powers." And it seems that Title 39 may address internal policy and procedures rather than external restrictions.

ETA: Ah ha! The difference is between The United States Code (USC) and the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). Your mention is of http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/...access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/julqtr/39cfr232.1.htm

That seems an odd repository, akamaitech, considering its history as a spam-haus. I had to disable security features to even see it's output.


Believe nothing that you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing world view.
 
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