Best Answers for Open Carry LEO Encounters

EagleFiveZero · Jan 20, 2008

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Many of us who post here realize that we are Goodwill Ambassadors for Open Carry, whether we like it or not.People not familiar with our culture will either become sympathetic to our cause (or not), depending on the impression we make on the general public. Howwe dress, what our demeanor reflects, how we act, etc. will have a big impact on those impressions with the General Public.

Logically, at some point, wewill likelyencounter law enforcement, and we shouldbe preparedto engage them verbally in a positive way. Most lawenforcment officers will be on 'high alert' when approaching someone who's openly carrying afirearm. I certainly don't blame them. It's not every day that they see someone engaging in Open Carry in most places.

So - whether the encounterwe have with them is positive or results in our arrest will depend largely on us - and how we handle the situation. This thread is to solicit your own verbage as to what you will say or have said (if you've already encountered them).

As a separate matter, if you are the subject of a 'Man With a G-G-G-Gun!!' 911 call, you will need to be prepared for that too. First, so that you don't get shot. Secondly, so it doesn't result in your arrest.

What are your suggestions for Verbal Response from our end?

kmcdowel · Jan 20, 2008

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Response to LEO encounter: I think this greatly depends on the demeanor of the police. If they are civil and asking simple questions, be polite, and answer the questions. We have nothing to hide. If they are being rash, then they probably won't be too into asking questions. They may draw and handcuff you, call for backup then ask their superior what the law is; then apologize and be on their way.

Man with a G-G-Gun call: I would move vveeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy slow and comply with any request, no matter how unlawful. Any violations of your rights can be dealt withlater.

I think we can learn from the two recorded incidents: Norfolkand New Hampshire. The Norfolk was a 'man with a gun (MWG)' call, and New Hampshire was an encounter. The MWG call: Not much the OCer could do here except comply. The LEO encounter: I feel it could have been handled in a more polite manner, but some disagree.

Many of us who post here realize that we are Goodwill Ambassadors for Open Carry, whether we like it or not.People not familiar with our culture will either become sympathetic to our cause (or not), depending on the impression we make on the general public. Howwe dress, what our demeanor reflects, how we act, etc. will have a big impact on those impressions with the General Public.

+1 Well said. In my short time on OCDO I have found that the members of our culture are generally the type that will makea good impression on those we encounter. Through knowledge and kindness we can educate LEO's, CCers (who don't OC), and sheeple who don't carry at all about our...cause?..purpose?...about our choice to protect ourselves and those around us.

irfner · Jan 20, 2008

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Even though many of my posts on OCDO seem to take an anti LEO position I am sympathetic to the job they have to do. I believe in most cases they are trying to protect the public interest and are willing to follow the law. Racing to the scene of a MYG report can get the adrenaline up. I will extend them as much courtesy as they extend me usually more. If asked I will attempt to diffuse the situation by providing identification. However I will never consent to being searched, detained or intimidated. Being a 'good' ambassador is great only so long as my rights are not trampled on.

Citizen · Jan 20, 2008

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EagleFiveZero wrote:

SNIP What are your suggestions for Verbal Response from our end?

Heavens! This has been an on-going subject with sub-threads and sub-topic arguments going for pages sometimes. I recall pages being spentdiscussing the fine points of Virginia law so it could be factored into handling a policeencounter.

Are you looking to start a discussion? Or looking for suggestions for yourself?

Citizen's Short Answers

Carry a voice-recorder.

Politely take advantage of the protections afforded by the 4th and 5th Amendment. Refuse consent to searches or seizures. Decline to talk. Decline to show ID if not required by law to show it. Ask if you are free to go/being detained.

Cooperate physically; do not resist.

Do not post on the internet about an inappropriate police encounter until after you have received any Freedom of Information Act request response materials and sent your complaint.

The police officer who approaches you, excluding an emergency on your part, is not your friend. The possible scenarios and theroute they may takeare too numerous to discuss here.

Seehttp://www.flexyourrights.org

deepdiver · Jan 22, 2008

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This is actually a difficult issue for me. My personal experiences showed me from my late teens on that some police have absolutely no problem bald face lying to parents, superiors or judges. Most police officers though tend to be good, decent people. I find it abhorrent to think of police officers as my enemy, although it has been over 2 decades since I have believed the youthful canard that they are my friend either.

Generally speaking I am respectful, calm and factual in dealing with LE. I only give as much information as required and offer nothing more, although I am happy to chat and laugh with them about other things as I would most anyone. I am a local businessman, nearly 40, clean cut (usually), well spoken and generally give the appearance of being just a regular middle class family man. I have watched officers look at me, look down at my holster, look back at my face by which time I am usually smiling and saying hello, which I tend to do with most people, followed by - nothing. The gun was a non-issue I think because I give nothing in my dress, demeanor, grooming or behavior to ever make it an issue. Still, someday, I may very well run into one of those jerk cops and I frankly, don't know what I will do besides hit the speed dial on my cell phone to my attorney.

SouthernBoy · Jan 22, 2008

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deepdiver wrote:

This is actually a difficult issue for me. My personal experiences showed me from my late teens on that some police have absolutely no problem bald face lying to parents, superiors or judges. Most police officers though tend to be good, decent people. I find it abhorrent to think of police officers as my enemy, although it has been over 2 decades since I have believed the youthful canard that they are my friend either.

Generally speaking I am respectful, calm and factual in dealing with LE. I only give as much information as required and offer nothing more, although I am happy to chat and laugh with them about other things as I would most anyone. I am a local businessman, nearly 40, clean cut (usually), well spoken and generally give the appearance of being just a regular middle class family man. I have watched officers look at me, look down at my holster, look back at my face by which time I am usually smiling and saying hello, which I tend to do with most people, followed by - nothing. The gun was a non-issue I think because I give nothing in my dress, demeanor, grooming or behavior to ever make it an issue. Still, someday, I may very well run into one of those jerk cops and I frankly, don't know what I will do besides hit the speed dial on my cell phone to my attorney.

And this part I bolded is just too sad. Because it will cost money to do this which you should have have to pay when you are not breaking any laws. Why should we suffer costs for things not of our doing?

Citizen · Jan 22, 2008

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SouthernBoy wrote:

deepdiver wrote:

SNIP Still, someday, I may very well run into one of those jerk cops and I frankly, don't know what I will do besides hit the speed dial on my cell phone to my attorney.

Click to expand...

SNIP And this part I bolded is just too sad. Because it will cost money to do this which you should have have to pay when you are not breaking any laws. Why should we suffer costs for things not of our doing?

Obnoxious as it is, at least we have that option.

EagleFiveZero · Jan 25, 2008

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Kinda Frustrated.

When I started this thread, I asked for posters to make suggestions on verbal interactions on our part if we encounter LEOs while conducting Open Carry. Not one poster responded. Somehow we got side-tracked into "other stuff" rather than sharing ideas on what we might say to Law Enforcement when approached.

This wasn't intended to get us into some kind of 'Cop Bashing' side-track. It was intended to get some positive ideas.

Oh well. Sorry I brought it up.

Citizen · Jan 25, 2008

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Sorry. Didn't realize you were looking for quotes.

Citizen's Statements (short version)

"Am I being detained? No? Have a nice day, Officer."

"Why have I been stopped, Officer?" "Why am I being detained?"

"I have nothing to discuss with you, Officer."

"Am I free to go?" (Repeat as necessary)

"If you reach a point where you are writing a summons or making an arrest, I'll be happy to identify myself to you, Officer." (Maybe not your state.)

"Consent refused." (or) "Refusal"

"I do not consent to any searches or seizures, Officer." (I imagine you have to be careful at DUI checkpoints or stopswith this one. I'm thinking refusing any search couldbe taken by theofficer to include that you are refusing achemical test and perhaps there goes your license to drive. Anybody have solid info on this?)

Offcr: "If you have nothing to hide, why are you refusing?" Citizen: "A citizen never has to justify his rights to government; that's why they're called rights,Officer."

"May I have a business card, Officer?"

Tactics: Ignore questionsand ask your own. Bepolite. No physical resistance. No threats of complaint or suit, etc.

grog18b · Jan 30, 2008

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#1. Be polite.

#2. Answer identity questions.

#3. Be polite.

We can spot jerks a mile away. Giving an attitude will often initiate the same response in anyone, and being rude to a police officer may result in further questioning. Just because a police officer approaches you, does not mean you have a right to be rude. Our job is to protect the public, of which you are a part. We are also a part of that public, and we must protect ourselves. We are also open carrying firearms, exercising that very same right YOU are. Most of us are pro-gun, and belong to associations like the NRA and so on. I'm not recommending allowing a right to be trampled. What I am recommending is being polite, as opposed to rude. Rudeness breeds rudeness. Why be rude? To elicit some sort of response from the officer? Just because you are approached and questioned does not permit you to be a jerk. As long as you are polite, professional, and not breaking the law, you are in the right, so, once again... Why be rude? Is it today's society?

Cops are people too. How would you react to someone that approached you like this: :cuss

r even :celebrate?? Just a thought, but how about acting like a normal human being, just one that exercizes a right? Simple thought... You will get treated normally how you treat others. If someone is a jerk to me... Oh well. They'll get a similar treatment. If someone is friendly, and polite... Same-same.

Sheldon · Jan 31, 2008

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grog18b wrote:

#1. Be polite.

#2. Answer identity questions.

#3. Be polite.

We can spot jerks a mile away. Giving an attitude will often initiate the same response in anyone, and being rude to a police officer may result in further questioning. Just because a police officer approaches you, does not mean you have a right to be rude. Our job is to protect the public, of which you are a part. We are also a part of that public, and we must protect ourselves. We are also open carrying firearms, exercising that very same right YOU are. Most of us are pro-gun, and belong to associations like the NRA and so on. I'm not recommending allowing a right to be trampled. What I am recommending is being polite, as opposed to rude. Rudeness breeds rudeness. Why be rude? To elicit some sort of response from the officer? Just because you are approached and questioned does not permit you to be a jerk. As long as you are polite, professional, and not breaking the law, you are in the right, so, once again... Why be rude? Is it today's society?

Cops are people too. How would you react to someone that approached you like this: :cussr even :celebrate?? Just a thought, but how about acting like a normal human being, just one that exercizes a right? Simple thought... You will get treated normally how you treat others. If someone is a jerk to me... Oh well. They'll get a similar treatment. If someone is friendly, and polite... Same-same.

A huge +1 and do not forget to smile and greet them with a "Good (insert proper time of day phrase here) How may I be of assistance?"

Best Answers for Open Carry LEO Encounters

EagleFiveZero

Regular Member

kmcdowel

Regular Member

irfner

Campaign Veteran

Citizen

Founder's Club Member

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran

SouthernBoy

Regular Member

Citizen

Founder's Club Member

EagleFiveZero

Regular Member

Citizen

Founder's Club Member

grog18b

Regular Member

Sheldon

Regular Member