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Thread: Nevada's restriction on reciprocity

  1. #1
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    Currently fifteen states recognize Nevada permits, most doing so long before Nevada implemented reciprocity. Now that Nevada has a provision for reciprocity, Nevada officials have been very strict in their recognition of other states. Of the fifteen states that have freely allowed Nevada residents to travel protected within their borders, only six have been afforded reciprocity for their courtesy.

    Nevada currently recognizes only nine states, three of which still do not allow Nevada residents the same in return. Many residents of these disallowed states take this as a slap in the face from Nevada officials.

    I am from Texas, who has honored Nevada permits since March of 2005, due to a unilateral proclamation by Governor Perry. With the establishment of Nevada reciprocity and the fact that Texas provisions are substantially similar to Nevada's, most felt sure that Texas would be on the list of recognized states. To the surprise of many, it was not.

    At the most recent meeting at our local gun club, a proposal was made for the club to draft a letter to the Texas Attorney General and to Governor Perry urging that if Nevada does not add Texas to their reciprocity list by July 01, 2008 (Nevada's next date of mandatory review) that Gov. Perry rescind the 2005 proclamation affording recognition of Nevada permits until a reciprocity agreement can be secured with Nevada. Members were also urged to send personal letters requesting the same. While the proposal failed to pass, it failed by only a few votes and many of the members have likely sent personal letters calling for such action.

    While I am not a supporter of giving up won ground in any manor and did not support this proposal, I can understand the frustration these members feel. I too feel slapped in the face by Nevada officials and I suspect this is the feeling of people all across the our state, as well as,the other disallowed states that have supported Nevada for so long in their quest for reciprocity.

    It appears that the Nevada officials responsible for reviewing and preparing the list in the NDPS are being very critical and not applying the standards of review in the spirit of the law as intended. The pertinent Nevada statute states:

    NRS 202.3689 Department to prepare list of states that meet certain requirements concerning permits; Department to provide copy of list to law enforcement agencies in this State; Department to make list available to public.

    1. On or before July 1 of each year, the Department shall:

    (a) Examine the requirements for the issuance of a permit to carry a concealed firearm in each state and determine whether the requirements of each state are substantially similar to or more stringent than the requirements set forth in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive.

    (b) Determine whether each state has an electronic database which identifies each individual who possesses a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm issued by that state and which a law enforcement officer in this State may access at all times through a national law enforcement telecommunications system.

    Many states, including Texas,meet these requirements and should be afforded reciprocity under this statute. It is up to the people of Nevada to apply pressure by writing letters toNevada officials in the NDPSand to their legislators demanding that therequirements for reciprocity be applied as intended by legislators, in that, states that have provisionssubstantially similar toNevada provisions be recognized.

    Proper application of this statute by Nevada DPS officials will not only insure more reciprocity for Nevada residents (and may even prevent the loss of some you already enjoy), it will allow visitors to Nevada (who Nevada depends on highly for state revenue) an increased level of protection while there.

    Take care all and be safe,

    Doc



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    Okay - but Nevada has to start somewhere. Not long ago, NV didn't recognize anyone else's permit. Now there's progress. Time will bring more I'm sure.

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    EagleFiveZero wrote:
    Okay - but Nevada has to start somewhere. Not long ago, NV didn't recognize anyone else's permit. Now there's progress. Time will bring more I'm sure.
    You are right. I did not mean that the people of NV were the problem, nor is it the legislators, it is the officials in the NDPS that are not following therules. My point was to urge the people to push for application of the law as it was intended. They are the only ones who can. Outsiders have no say and can bring about no change in Nevada politics.

    I applaud the people of Nevada for their consistent push to secure reciprocity. Now there is one more hurdle that requires their attention. The officials at the NDPS that are trying to apply their own agenda in the application of the law.

    Take care all and be safe,

    Doc

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    first of all, are you 100% sure that Texas has a statewide electronic database of CCW holders that can be accessed by any law enforcement agency 24/7? if not, then there is no chance that TX will be honored until they do. the NVSCA wrote this requirement into the bill, and since they too have a say in which permits get honored it's a huge deal to them.

    secondly, even if they do have the database (which they very well may) NV has only had reciprocity for 3 months. give us some time.

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    njeske wrote:
    first of all, are you 100% sure that Texas has a statewide electronic database of CCW holders that can be accessed by any law enforcement agency 24/7? if not, then there is no chance that TX will be honored until they do. the NVSCA wrote this requirement into the bill, and since they too have a say in which permits get honored it's a huge deal to them.

    secondly, even if they do have the database (which they very well may) NV has only had reciprocity for 3 months. give us some time.
    To your first question, Absolutely! It has been in place since the inception of the CHL program. Not only can they be accessed directly, it is attached to the DL system and any officer running your DL is informed that the individual is a CHL holder in case they did not present the CHL with the ID.
    As for the second part of your statement, actually, the law has been active seven months and the NDPS has had that long to work on the project. While the law did not become legally effective until October 01, 2007, Nevada SB 237 passed on May 23rd and was signed on June 14th making it effective on that datewith a projected active date of October1st. This process is meant to allow thoseagencies for which a bill affects totake the proper action to prepare. Texas has been working with NDPS for some time to and has yet to secure reciprocity because of some minor differences in the statutes.

    Again, I am not for removing Texas recognition of Nevada permits as I see that as a step backwards in the fight to improve our state's gun laws. I never agree with giving up ground, no matter how minimal the impact on us directly. This was my argument then and now. I also applaud the people of Nevada for their continued effort, which was effective in securing reciprocity in the first place. I also applaud your legislator for writing a very fair and understandable reciprocity statute and passing it by unanimous vote and your governor for signing that bill into law a mere 3 weeks later.

    All I am pointing out is the fact that the NDPS is not applying the requirements of the new law to the standards that the people and the legislature intended and in so are ruffling a few feather on those who helped support Nevada permit holder by offering unilateral recognition while the people of Nevada worked to secure a reciprocity amendment. All I ask is that the people who worked so hard to secure this law not allow the NDPS to circumvent it by applying standards more strict than intended or called for by the statute.

    No offense was intended toward the people of Nevada, as I see their efforts as admirable throughout. The contempt felt by many is directed solely atthe officials within the Nevada DPS responsible for applying the provisions of the statute who are seemingly not doing so fairly. As I states numerous times,I do not support the call to rescind the unilateral recognition Texas affords Nevada residents, but I do understandwhy many feel that way. Since Isee this for what it is, a problem with one department withing the state, I do not see imposing a sanctionagainst the people, which is why I chose to ask for their help in resolving the problem.

    Awareness and perhaps a little help is all I am asking for here.

    Take care all and be safe,

    Doc

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    My suggestion would have been to, after the initial proposal failed, suggest that your club write your attorney general and request his office to try to resolve the difference with NV. Letters could be sent to both the NVDPS and the NV AG office from your AGs office or whoeverhas authority on this issue. Let meput this question out there. Who would NVDPS listen to regarding this issue? The citizens of NV who may or may not understand the ins and outs of reciprocity agreements ortheTexas AGs office requesting a discussion of this?

    If you need a clue to the answer just look atsome of these threads and see how acity counsel and attorney view the people of NV. They however will listen to the AGs office.I feel in a sense that it is not the responsibility of NV citizens to bring this up. I can't really lobby for a Texans rights. I would have simply suggested a more positive approach to your AG to push him to lobby for your rights in other states. Go back to your club get a letter drafted to your authority for reciprocity then start to circulate it around through other clubs then forward it off to the authority in Texas requesting he work on it. This should produce results.

    Even with our strict standards I have to pull out my Utah permit to go to NM and WY. This is the reverse side of it where NV won't recognise NM and WY because of the other states standards and therefore without review or thought they withhold the approval for us to carry in NM and WY based upon no standards but reciprocity.

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    gunrunner1911 wrote:
    My suggestion would have been to, after the initial proposal failed, suggest that your club write your attorney general and request his office to try to resolve the difference with NV. Letters could be sent to both the NVDPS and the NV AG office from your AGs office or whoeverhas authority on this issue. Let meput this question out there. Who would NVDPS listen to regarding this issue? The citizens of NV who may or may not understand the ins and outs of reciprocity agreements ortheTexas AGs office requesting a discussion of this?

    If you need a clue to the answer just look atsome of these threads and see how acity counsel and attorney view the people of NV. They however will listen to the AGs office.I feel in a sense that it is not the responsibility of NV citizens to bring this up. I can't really lobby for a Texans rights. I would have simply suggested a more positive approach to your AG to push him to lobby for your rights in other states. Go back to your club get a letter drafted to your authority for reciprocity then start to circulate it around through other clubs then forward it off to the authority in Texas requesting he work on it. This should produce results.

    Even with our strict standards I have to pull out my Utah permit to go to NM and WY. This is the reverse side of it where NV won't recognise NM and WY because of the other states standards and therefore without review or thought they withhold the approval for us to carry in NM and WY based upon no standards but reciprocity.

    I have communicated with the Texas AG and do so on a regular basis. The Texas AG has been in contact with the Nevada officials on numerous occasions and continues to do so in an attempt to resolve the issue. This is the point and if you do not believe that Nevada officials will listen to the people, just ask how you got reciprocity in the first place. While the NDPS officials my not be elected and my not place as much stock in the opinion of the people, they can count and they do know that enough complaints can get them ousted and they know that legislators are elected and can affect their jobs. This is why I pointed out contacting both the NDPS and state legislators.

    As for contacting our representatives, we do that regularly. For example, when Kansas published their list of recognized states, which included Texas, we immediately sent formal letters to both the Texas AG and the Governor requesting the immediate recognition of Kansas permits by proclamation versus waiting for the review process, which could take up to a year, and within a few weeks it was done. Likewise, we continue to encourage our AG to work on securing such agreement with other states, although it is something he does continuously and hascertain staff assigned to.

    As I pointed out, it takes action on both sides and we are committed to staying on top of it on this end, just as many Nevada residents are on that end. I am simply asking that Nevada residents realize the fight is not over and that an obstacle has formed that needs addressing on their end as well.

    It takes a sharing of information and a joint effort to keep these things going smoothly, so don't be offended when someone points out a potential problem within your system, help resolve the problem. At least look into the matter and take action where needed, that is all one can ask, but assuming the problem must be elsewhere without so much as checking into it is counterproductive. I have read and compared the NevadaandTexas CCW statutes; I have read the Nevada reciprocity statute, and; I have contacted the officials in my state to ensure that all is being done on this end. I have even written to the Nevada DPS requesting a clarification from them as to why they feel Texas does not qualify (without a response so far), so I and many others in Texas are doingour part.

    The fact is, the only people a state will listen to is their own people and rightly so. That is why I am taking this oportunity tosimply ask that Nevada residents help by doing the same. Many are not aware of the problem and I am sure that once they are they will do what they can to help resolve the issue.

    Take care all and be safe,

    Doc


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    I certainly wish Nevada honored Virginia's CHP, as I'm going to be out therefor about 6 months! As is, it's just easier and make more sense to get a Utah Non-Resident (whick Nevada recognizes), than it is to get a Nevada permit.

    Since Nevada is OC friendly, I'll be doing a lotof that out there and like here in VA, I only have the CHP just in case I accidentally conceal.

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    BobCav wrote:
    I certainly wish Nevada honored Virginia's CHP, as I'm going to be out therefor about 6 months! As is, it's just easier and make more sense to get a Utah Non-Resident (whick Nevada recognizes), than it is to get a Nevada permit.

    Since Nevada is OC friendly, I'll be doing a lotof that out there and like here in VA, I only have the CHP just in case I accidentally conceal.
    I agree Bob. I too have a Utah permit, as well as a couple of others, and have open carried in Nevada ona fewoccasion (never in Vegas). That is certainly one concessionNevada has to offerthose without an honored permit. Open carryis certainlya hot topic for the next legislative session here in Texas, but I doubt it will make much headway the firsttime around. The problem for most is lack of access to Utah instructors. Other than the Dallas, San Antonio and Houston areas, it is not readily available. I go to Vegas enough to make it worththe time and trouble to go get one, but for most people it is not worth the trouble for a once a year trip to Vegas. I have no doubt it will all get worked out eventually.

    Take care all and be safe,

    Doc

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    DocNTexas wrote:
    ...Nevada implemented reciprocity. Now that Nevada has a provision for reciprocity...
    I realize this may be considered a "technicality" BUT Nevada does NOT have reciprocity. The new (Oct 1, 2007) NRS allows for RECOGNITION of other state's permits IF certain criteria are met. The NRS does NOT provide for reciprocity.
    Having said that, I DO agree with your other comments. Nevada officials appear to be overly cautious and critical of other state's CCW criteria. We may not be able to make any "corrections" until the 75th (2009) legislative session. I would hope Texas might afford us a bit more time.

  11. #11
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    varminter22 wrote:
    DocNTexas wrote:
    ...Nevada implemented reciprocity. Now that Nevada has a provision for reciprocity...
    I realize this may be considered a "technicality" BUT Nevada does NOT have reciprocity. The new (Oct 1, 2007) NRS allows for RECOGNITION of other state's permits IF certain criteria are met. The NRS does NOT provide for reciprocity.
    Having said that, I DO agree with your other comments. Nevada officials appear to be overly cautious and critical of other state's CCW criteria. We may not be able to make any "corrections" until the 75th (2009) legislative session. I would hope Texas might afford us a bit more time.
    Yes,you is correct. I merely use the term "reciprocity" because that is the term commonly used andunderstood by most people. Technically, Nevada does not have a "reciprocity" statute, it is actually, as you pointed out, a provision allowing forrecognition of permits issued by other states, whether they recognize Nevada permits or not. This is why Nevada currently recognizes permits from two states that do not, and have never, recognized Nevada permits (Arkansas & Nebraska).

    Personally, I do not see Governor Perry taking such action anytime soon. Gov. Perry has always been a big supporter of CCW and has issued unilateral proclamationsof recognition for numerous state, both as a show of good faith to promote reciprocity for Texas and to provide protection for those who visit our state. While many people feel restless over the issue, I feel the Governor and AG will simply continue to try and work out the problem with the NDPS, but a little push from the inside sure would help.

    Take care all and be safe,

    Doc

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