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Thread: VT Victims Rally in Richmond

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    By KRISTEN GELINEAU, Associated Press Writer Mon Jan 21, 10:15 PM ET
    RICHMOND, Va. - Survivors and families of the victims of the Virginia Tech shootings faced off Monday against gun-rights advocates over a bill that would prevent criminals and the mentally ill from buying firearms at gun shows.
    About 100 supporters of the measure lay on the Capitol lawn to honor the victims of gun violence, as about 200 opponents stood nearby, holding signs that read, "Here Lie Disarmed Victims."
    At one point, Jeff Knox, director of operations of the Manassas-based Firearms Coalition, approached survivor Colin Goddard and said students could have stopped student Seung-Hui Cho's rampage if they had been allowed to carry guns on campus.
    "I would have stopped him," Knox said. "Because when I went to school, I carried a gun. It was legal; I did it."
    Goddard, a Virginia Tech senior who was shot four times in the April 16 massacre, was taken aback, then said: "I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation.
    "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things," he said, adding that he put his "full trust" in the police to protect society.
    Earlier Monday at a Senate committee hearing on the bill, supporters, many wearing ribbons in Tech's colors of maroon and orange, outnumbered opponents by about 3 to 1. The opponents sported buttons reading "Guns Save Lives."
    The legislation would require unlicensed sellers at gun shows to run criminal background checks on buyers. Such checks now are required only of federally licensed gun dealers.
    Cho, who killed 32 people at Tech before committing suicide, passed a background check and bought one gun from a store and a second online despite having been deemed mentally defective by a Virginia court.
    Gov. Timothy M. Kaine has since signed an executive order requiring that anyone ordered by a court to get mental health treatment be added to a state police database of people barred from buying guns.
    Gun-rights advocates said the bill would burden law-abiding citizens and gun show promoters. They also noted that Cho did not buy his weapon at a gun show, but supporters said that doesn't matter.
    The idea, they said, is to reduce the possibility of similar tragedies in the future.
    "You can no longer say you have not been forewarned," said Joseph Samaha, whose daughter Reema was among those killed. "By voting 'no' you are doomed to relive history."
    A committee vote on the measure will be Wednesday, the panel chairman said.
    ___
    Associated Press writer Larry O'Dell contributed to this report.

    Goddard, a Virginia Tech senior who was shot four times in the April 16 massacre, was taken aback, then said: "I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation.
    "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things," he said, adding that he put his "full trust" in the police to protect society.
    Goddard must have a death wish or something.





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    Goddard, a Virginia Tech senior who was shot four times in the April 16 massacre, was taken aback, then said: "I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation.
    "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things," he said, adding that he put his "full trust" in the police to protect society.



    What fools these mortals be.

    I have to wonder at both the VT acceptance screening process and the actual education they provide. Apparently they are both short in the critical/logical thinking department.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    PavePusher wrote:
    I have to wonder at both the VT acceptance screening process and the actual education they provide. Apparently they are both short in the critical/logical thinking department.
    I don't think VT has a critical/logical thinking department - as a school or for its students.

    One of the college-age women holding a sign said "I'm only doing what someone asked me to do." and when I asked if college was teaching her to think for herself she simply turned to another and said "She's very ANGRY, isn't she?"

    At that point, determining discretion to be the better part of valor, and knowing matching wits against an unarmed opponent is hazardous to both, I moved away.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    blk wrote:
    Goddard, a Virginia Tech senior who was shot four times in the April 16 massacre, was taken aback, then said: "I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation.
    "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things," he said, adding that he put his "full trust" in the police to protect society.
    Blood has officially shot out of my eyes after seeing this.

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    Goddard, a Virginia Tech senior who was shot four times in the April 16 massacre, was taken aback, then said: "I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation. In a perfect world, I wouldn't have to worry but I've learned early on in life that we do not live in a perfect world.
    "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things," he said, adding that he put his "full trust" in the police to protect society.

    I'm the first line of defense, not the Police...

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    How many extremely well armed police officers died on April 16th?

    How many unarmed students died?

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    Wow...that is simply amazing. I can't even begin to understand how someone could think like that. :S

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    We're not afraid of this happening again, we know this is going to happen again, we just don't know when, where, or how many victimswill be included, and history shows that it can and does happen anywhere, despite all the laws that have been or will be made.



    If anyone ever doubted that the saying "Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control.", they would have seen it in action all around the GAB and capitol square yesterday. While eating lunch in the GAB cafeteria My partner went to get some napkins and on his way back witnessed four of the "close the loophole ladies" eating at the same table as some of the "Guns save lives" folks, and just as he passed by another "loophole lady" came to the table and "ordered" the other " four "loophole ladies" to move because "We're not going to sit with anyone who likes guns!". Mind you, sitting space in the cafeteria was at a premium and anyone fortunate enough to grab a space would be loathe to give it up, still this woman made the decision for the others, and like sheep, they complied, they gave up their seats. What else are they willing togive up, simply by beingordered to appease someone else's agenda? Do they even comprehend the scope of what she was saying? Anyone who likes guns includes a lot of different people, even some that they are so willing to "place their full confidence in", and we know how well that turned out for 32 folks in Blacksburg this past Spring.



    Still later, when the "Lie-in" (appropriately named) began, one of the "Loophole Ladies" came over to where many of us were standing behind the "Victims" laying on the ground holding signs that said things like "Freedom is not a loophole", "here lies an unarmed victim", and started trying to force us back from the fringe saying that they had a permit to be there and we didn't. we told her we didn't need a permit to standthere, and it was at that veryinstant that a Capital Police Officer interrupted her and said, Ma'amwe've already talkedbefore and I told you that if there was a problem, we would handle it, to which sheshuffled off into "the Other Side".



    Still later, after the "Lie-In" was over, there was much good natured, respectful, and reasonable discussion between some of the young folks that had participated in the actual "laying down" and the "Guns Save Lives" crowd. One young lady in particular who had participated in the "Lie-In" impressed me very much. She wanted to understand the entire issue from both sides, and while we were talking, one of the other "Loophole Ladies" came over and tried to keep her from talking to us and tried to move her away. To this young lady's credit, she did not simply comply, she showed that she had a backbone, and a mind capable ofmaking her own decisions!!! She encourages me that it is possible for respectful discussion, with at least some of them.



    Another young man who participated in the "Lie-In" kept repeating "Well, you don't fight fire with fire." It's a nice cliche, anda frequent metaphor they like to use, and maybe that's his real personal opinion, but it's philosophically and in actuality untrue! One of the "tools" firefighters use to try and control forest fire and brush fire is to strategically set "back fires" as witnessed in the terrible fires in California this past summer. If we can fight fire with fire (and we can!), and if it is the most immediate and effective and proper tool we have at our disposal, why not fight fire with fire? The young man then said "Well, I just don't think that there should be any guns at schools.", which reminds me of the Anti-Gun guy that said something to the effect, You don't like it that you can't have a gun at school, leave! We know the problem is that someone like Cho, or Klebold,CAN have a gun at any school, and they're not worried in the least about graduation, expulsion, or even prosecution, just how how many victims they CAN claim before they check themselves out.



    I was really glad to meet and talk with some of you guys here on the OCDO like Tess!!! Good fellowship, great conversation, good breakfast too, although I didn't eat anything. THAT, was a big mistake,as there were major food lines at the GAB, and some of the eateries in town were closed for the holiday. Oh well, another lesson learned. It's probably a good idea to pack a lunch when we do this again! That reminds me, when we were heading up in the elevators in the GAB (talk about being packed in!) one lady said "Boy, this is probably the warmest place in the building!", I wanted so badly to say "Maybe it's because we're packing so much heat!":shock:, but I didn't. Didn't want to start something that would cause me to use my CPR skills,LOL.



    Great job OCDO and VCDL. Let's do this again!!!





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    Goddard, a Virginia Tech senior who was shot four times in the April 16 massacre, was taken aback, then said: "I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation.
    "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things," he said, adding that he put his "full trust" in the police to protect society.
    The irony is society was protected on April 16 at the expense of 32 innocent lives. Society still exists and, in most cases, grew from that day. We lost those innocent lives because the collective hive has been deemed more important than the individual pieces.

    Police can and does protect everyone at the macro level but cannot at the micro level.
    ---

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    blk wrote:
    Goddard, a Virginia Tech senior who was shot four times in the April 16 massacre, was taken aback, then said: "I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation.
    "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things," he said, adding that he put his "full trust" in the police to protect society.
    I do not carry because I am afraid. I carry so I don't have to be.

    The things he said didn't make sense to me at first, so I tried to put myself in his shoes and think how he does...but I can't. The only way I could think like him is to abandon my logic, reason, and knowledge. Essentially, I would have the mind of a small child.

    My g/f's kid has made the comment to others that "if there's a bad guy, he'll protect us", referring to myself. He's 7, so comments like that make sense coming from him. But a full grown adult saying "if bad things happen, the police will protect me".....wow.

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    "There are people within our society who we deem capable and correct, our police forces who are supposed to protect us — and I put my full trust in them."

    "Another most fatal omission is with respect to standing armies. In our bill of rights of Virginia, they are said to be dangerous to liberty, and it tells you that the proper defence of a free state consists in militia; ...The militia, sir, is our ultimate safety...The great object is, that every man be armed." Patrick Henry


    I don't see Patrick Henry mentioning the police as our ultimate safety.

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    Goddard, a Virginia Tech senior who was shot four times in the April 16 massacre, was taken aback, then said: "I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation.

    "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things," he said, adding that he put his "full trust" in the police to protect society.
    At least we know there's one college student who's not going to change the world. He's going to stand back and let others do things.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    I was standing next to that interview and was looking at the guy. He kept looking at me with fear, which I found interesting as he's trying to claim as though he isn't in fear when it was clearly there. I dont' blame him for holding fear. I also was thinking about his comments and had he not gone through such a horrendous event I would have been very tempted to add in that we (ok i dont' carry yet but very soon) don't carry in fear, we don't get up put the gun on in complete and udder fear that something tragic will happen. The only conclusion I could come up with is that the statements he made where a result of overcompensation for his fear and attempt of moving on. Hopefully we will grow past the ignorance.

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    I had a couple of fairly-civil talks with people from their side. It's possible to reason with some of 'em. The only time I had my gun exposed, was in the deli during lunch. Talked to one of them, but just to point out where in the maze the men's room was.

    Rest of the time, I was covered because it was bloody cold out. I did notice that 1911s seem to be the most popular carry guns for us eeevil gun-lobbyists

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    Tess wrote:
    PavePusher wrote:
    I have to wonder at both the VT acceptance screening process and the actual education they provide. Apparently they are both short in the critical/logical thinking department.
    I don't think VT has a critical/logical thinking department - as a school or for its students.

    One of the college-age women holding a sign said "I'm only doing what someone asked me to do." and when I asked if college was teaching her to think for herself she simply turned to another and said "She's very ANGRY, isn't she?"

    At that point, determining discretion to be the better part of valor, and knowing matching wits against an unarmed opponent is hazardous to both, I moved away.

    In essence you are right. Schools are run by people who believe they can run and tell on you for doing something.

    Think of it this way. If you did something these are the same people that don't understand actual occurances.

    For example if I shoved you they would say...."You Can't do that!" then when I shoved you again "They would say I told you...You can't touch me!" then when you did something even more aggressive they wouldn't understand that by telling you not to due somthing its not making you stop attacking them. To them the wool is blinding them so much they just don't understand.

    as far as Mr. Goddard statements:

    Goddard, a Virginia Tech senior who was shot four times in the April 16 massacre, was taken aback, then said: "I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation.
    "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things," he said, adding that he put his "full trust" in the police to protect society.


    Its very sad he thinks this. He still has the "VICTIM" mentality similiar to Brady. Well because I was shot I need to start an illogical crusade against a object. Welll, Mr. Goddard you are a complete moron. Cars kill more people a day then guns nobody wants to ban cars. However, the big secret is in both cases cars and guns, there are people who are in control of those items.

    You say "I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation" No you don't, stop lying to yourself. You don't understand REALITY actually your really quote unquote sorrow towards us is really jealosy from the stand point that you have NO control over what happens to you or the people you love. You incorporate a false sense of safety by putting your trust in the police and public service. You are scared frighted college frat boy who doesn't have a clue. So what you've been on Oprah. You think you are a hero for being shot 4 times by a mass murderer? Soldiers in IRAQ/AFGANISTAN that get shot are hero's, actually anybody in a uniform is a hero. You are an example of a blind dog finding a mushroom once in its life. Your a victim plain and simple a FN statistic. That had no common sense to take your own personal safety or the personal safety of your classmates in your hands. You are a coward plain and simple. I take your sorrow towards us as a compliment, holding my head proud that I actually may have the power to stop a violent criminal from doing evil against myself or fellow man.

    You think I carry a gun to shootpeople? I carry a handgun because I don't expect to shoot anybody. I'm smart enough to recognize the fact that if Iknew I was going to a gun fight I would bring the darkest most evil looking thing you ever set your eyes on, with lots and lots of ammuntion, and then I would bring Friends with the same thing. I carry a handgun because I expect NOT to shoot somebody only to react to getting shot at and maybe saving my own or families lives.

    Mr. Coward I'm mean Goddard just remember this. While you think you lie safely in your bed and walk the streets with "full protection", know this: you got lucky the first time. The second time it happens and your kids or your family is on their knees begging for their lives in Walmart, Safeway, Highschool, Middleschool, or maybe when your back for your class reunion at TECH,you SIR again the second time in your life may be on your knees/backcowaring praying to what ever GOD you wish that their is a man or women (sorry ladies) like me in the same room as you armed who can stop and saveyour family. You may not fear for yourself, but I know you have people you don't want to see executed begging for their lives. You don't want to have to deal with the fact your 9 year old son had his throat slit while you watched him helplessly bleedout counting his last breath. When that time comes and somebody like me is around and I respond with your quote "fact thatI feel youI to protectmyself in every situation." Because I am armed with my Glock 19,I will accept your Personal THANK YOU, and go back to my honorable lifestyle.

    You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things,"

    PS you've lived through nothing!!! You where lucky enought that Cho choosed not to finish you off.

    To me living requires you have gained something from yourordeal.Fromyour statements you havetaken2 steps back.You say in hard times you trust the police because they have guns. Well Don't you simple wish I who btw has never had to use a gun in all the years I've personally carried a LOADED pistol Concealed or Open have never had to shoot it at anybody. However, I do practiceand shoot more then most LEO's I compete intactical competitions, and own almost more guns then the VA TECH police Department!



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    Spectre wrote:
    blk wrote:
    Goddard, a Virginia Tech senior who was shot four times in the April 16 massacre, was taken aback, then said: "I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation.
    "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things," he said, adding that he put his "full trust" in the police to protect society.
    Blood has officially shot out of my eyes after seeing this.
    I've been pissed off since reading., and seeing biased news reports about myrmidon Tech protesters in Richmond. I thought WDBJ in Roanoke has a biased report. This morning, I watched a balanced report on WSET in Lynchburg. I don't know about WSLS in Roanoke, didn't see their news, yet.

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    rob99vmi04 wrote:
    SNIP Goddard, a Virginia Tech senior who was shot four times in the April 16 massacre, was taken aback, then said: "I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation.
    "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things," he said, adding that he put his "full trust" in the police to protect society.
    Perhaps the experience has affected his ability to think.

    The police didn't protect him last time, what makes him think they'll accomplish it the next?

    I don't think victimhood confersmoral superiority. It just means he was a victim.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Not only is it a great blame shifter but hey you don't have to worry about controlling your own life, that's for crazy violent people! I love the thought surrounding that, I feel sorry that you feel you need control of your life...wow, i'm so proud of my generation!!!

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    packingdressagerider wrote:
    I've been pissed off since reading., and seeing biased news reports about myrmidon Tech protesters in Richmond. I thought WDBJ in Roanoke has a biased report. This morning, I watched a balanced report on WSET in Lynchburg. I don't know about WSLS in Roanoke, didn't see their news, yet.
    I think the Washington Post got the ONLY POSSIBLE photo that didn't show the VCDL supporters' signs. Even their published photo showed LOTS of people surrounding those lying on the ground, but didn't say why. BTW, one of their items also said "an equal number of pro-gun...." I'd like them to define "equal" when they define "loophole".

    Notice, too, all the news reports are focusing on the hearing, where we were outnumbered. What I wouldn't give to know which of those were Senate invitees.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Tess wrote:
    packingdressagerider wrote:
    I've been pissed off since reading., and seeing biased news reports about myrmidon Tech protesters in Richmond. I thought WDBJ in Roanoke has a biased report. This morning, I watched a balanced report on WSET in Lynchburg. I don't know about WSLS in Roanoke, didn't see their news, yet.
    I think the Washington Post got the ONLY POSSIBLE photo that didn't show the VCDL supporters' signs. Even their published photo showed LOTS of people surrounding those lying on the ground, but didn't say why. BTW, one of their items also said "an equal number of pro-gun...." I'd like them to define "equal" when they define "loophole".

    Notice, too, all the news reports are focusing on the hearing, where we were outnumbered. What I wouldn't give to know which of those were Senate invitees.
    It is a constant parade of victims on WDBJ TV with their reporting on Tech. I'm getting so sick of it, and then they insulted those of us who take personal responsibility for our own personal safety. Any one of us, who could have been at Tech during that incident would have defended any one of them. But instead they can't see that completely doing away with the opportunity for self protection is the only thing that could have saved them on that day. By golly, they won't take away my right to save myself from violent acts.

    I wish I could have been with the pro-gun side on Lobby Day.

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