Question about open carrying

southernk30 · Jan 22, 2008

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Ok so if VA doesn't require you to have a permit to OC, how do you transport it. I thought that if you dont have a CHP you have to keep your gun locked up unloaded while in your car. I guess my question is, if i want to OC can I leave my gun in my holster (with a strap) on my hip while driving from my house to a store?

KodiakISGOOD · Jan 22, 2008

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southernk30 wrote:

Ok so if VA doesn't require you to have a permit to OC, how do you transport it. I thought that if you dont have a CHP you have to keep your gun locked up unloaded while in your car. I guess my question is, if i want to OC can I leave my gun in my holster (with a strap) on my hip while driving from my house to a store?

remove it from the holster and put it on the dashboard or on the passenger's seat, when you get to the store/home put it back in the holster

Tess · Jan 22, 2008

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Kodiak's answer is guaranteed to be right - if it's on the dash or the passenger seat, no one can claim it's concealed.

I don't feel comfortable placing mine on the dash OR the seat - I have to make too many sharp stops due to idiots on the beltway and around town.

As long as it isn't "hidden from common observation" is the standard. How that standard applies can be debated. I keep mine on my hip in its holster while I'm driving.

YMMV

southernk30 · Jan 22, 2008

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Thanks for the replies. Does it have to be unloaded? It just doesnt make sence that you can have a gun at reach (on the seat or dash board) but you cant have it in your glove box. I really just need to get a CHP so I dont have to worry about carrying it in my car.

dude · Jan 22, 2008

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southernk30 wrote:

Thanks for the replies. Does it have to be unloaded? It just doesnt make sence that you can have a gun at reach (on the seat or dash board) but you cant have it in your glove box. I really just need to get a CHP so I dont have to worry about carrying it in my car.

You can have your gun loaded. HOWEVER, I cant find it now (of course), but I seem to remember that if you do not have a CHP, there is a limit as to how many rounds you can have in your gun - dependant on the population of your given location. I seem to remember that number of roundsbeing around 20 or more.

Most of your questionspertains to Title 18.2, Chapter 7, Section 18.2 of the VA Code, you can find it here:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC18020000007000000000000

eyesopened · Jan 22, 2008

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I think this is the code the poster abover is referring to: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-287.4

southernk30 · Jan 22, 2008

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Ok good, haha i dont have any guns that can hold that many anyways, I just have a Glock21 with a 13 round magazine. Ok last question, can i leave my gun in the holster and put it on the dash or front seat?

stryth · Jan 22, 2008

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southernk30 wrote:

Ok good, haha i dont have any guns that can hold that many anyways, I just have a Glock21 with a 13 round magazine. Ok last question, can i leave my gun in the holster and put it on the dash or front seat?

see http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308 "Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry."

"If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation... any pistol... he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor."

"For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature."

Of course, the code goes on to make exceptions to this (such as a concealed handgun permit) but for the purposes of your question that should provide a good answer.

mobeewan · Jan 22, 2008

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southernk30 wrote:

Ok good, haha i dont have any guns that can hold that many anyways, I just have a Glock21 with a 13 round magazine. Ok last question, can i leave my gun in the holster and put it on the dash or front seat?

Yes, as long as they are in plain view and the holster is not made disguise the appearance of the gun.

dude · Jan 23, 2008

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eyesopened wrote:

I think this is the code the poster abover is referring to: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-287.4

Thats the one, thanks!

PackininVB · Jan 23, 2008

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southernk30 wrote:

Ok good, haha i dont have any guns that can hold that many anyways, I just have a Glock21 with a 13 round magazine. Ok last question, can i leave my gun in the holster and put it on the dash or front seat?

Recommend that whenever you drive you just take it off of your hip, either in the holster or not. Would be a good idea to find some way to keep the holster in the middle console so that it sticks out. Bottom line is, if you get pulled over and a cop walks up to your drivers side window he has to be able to notice it without msticking his head in the window or opening the door etc. If you have it on your hip and the cop cant see it, then according to the law, it is concealed. There were some old topics a long while back about how to secure a holster into your car so your gun could stick out like a cars shifter. Can't call THAT concealed.

eyesopened · Jan 23, 2008

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PackininVB wrote:

southernk30 wrote:

Ok good, haha i dont have any guns that can hold that many anyways, I just have a Glock21 with a 13 round magazine. Ok last question, can i leave my gun in the holster and put it on the dash or front seat?

Click to expand...

SNIP
If you have it on your hip and the cop cant see it, then according to the law, it is concealed.

I'm going to have to disagree with the above. If you are OC on your hip and the LEO cannot see it, just because they cannot see it, does not make it concealed. It's like me standing next to a wall with my firearm OC on my right hip. If the LEO is on the left side and he cannot see my firearm, have I concealed it? No, it's just not visible from his vantage point. If the above where true, then I'd have to get a holster stitched to the top ofmy hat so that it could be visiblefrom 360 degrees.

§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation,(i) any pistol... SNIP...For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

PackininVB · Jan 23, 2008

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eyesopened wrote:

PackininVB wrote:

southernk30 wrote:

Ok good, haha i dont have any guns that can hold that many anyways, I just have a Glock21 with a 13 round magazine. Ok last question, can i leave my gun in the holster and put it on the dash or front seat?

Click to expand...

SNIP
If you have it on your hip and the cop cant see it, then according to the law, it is concealed.

Click to expand...

I'm going to have to disagree with the above. If you are OC on your hip and the LEO cannot see it, just because they cannot see it, does not make it concealed. It's like me standing next to a wall with my firearm OC on my right hip. If the LEO is on the left side and he cannot see my firearm, have I concealed it? No, it's just not visible from his vantage point. If the above where true, then I'd have to get a holster stitched to the top ofmy hat so that it could be visiblefrom 360 degrees.

§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol... SNIP...For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

If its on your hip and you have your seatbelt on, trust me it will be considered concealed. We have covered this topic about a year ago over this exact same thing. And you standing next to a wall and able to turn any time is NOT the same thing as being strapped to your seat by a seatbelt. You can ask a neuteral cop on this but i do believe that either strapped to the left or right hand side, with a seatbelt on, will be considered "hidden from common observation" LEO229, any input?

eyesopened · Jan 23, 2008

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Sure if your seatbelt is covering up the grip of your weapon, it may be construed as concealing it but if your seatbelt is behind the grip then it's not concealed.

It was actually rehashed not too long ago: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/6962-2.html

PackininVB · Jan 23, 2008

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eyesopened wrote:

Sure if your seatbelt is covering up the grip of your weapon, it may be construed as concealing it but if your seatbelt is behind the grip then it's not concealed.

It was actually rehashed not too long ago: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/6962-2.html

Try this topic, its a little older,

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/1022.html

Or this one,

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/2280.html

or this one,

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/3770.html

and here:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/2027.html

Im sure there are more, im just getting tired of looking all of them up. Easiest thing is to just (if you can) get your CHP and quit worryin about whether the cops can see it or not.

LEO 229 · Jan 23, 2008

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Having it on your hip and sitting in a bucket seat or sport seat could cause most or all the gun to be hidden from view.

It will be a judgement call if worn in this manner.

For me... I ALWAYS take mine off and place it in my door pocket (since I have a CC permit) or on my front passenger seat.

I do this for two reasons.....

Personal comfort
Wear and tear on my leather seat

Having it clearly out in the open for those that do not have a CC permit is just one way to guard against being charges (rightfully or wrongfully) for having a concealed weapon in the vehicle.

eyesopened · Jan 23, 2008

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Has anyone actually been wrongfully accused of conceal carrying when the were open carrying on their hip while in their vehicle? Or prosecuted? Not saying I'd like to bea test case, but just wondering? I've got a CHP, so I can do either but for those who don't/can't have a CHP, may want to know. I still stand by my assertion that a hip holster OC is still legal as long as it's not obscured to the point that it is no longer determinable to be a handgun. I've never been ina vehicle where the side bolsters were sufficient to hide anything. I've seen those rice cars with the "racing seats" and I guess those would qualify, but I wouldn't be caught driving one

PackininVB · Jan 24, 2008

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eyesopened wrote:

Has anyone actually been wrongfully accused of conceal carrying when the were open carrying on their hip while in their vehicle? Or prosecuted? Not saying I'd like to bea test case, but just wondering? I've got a CHP, so I can do either but for those who don't/can't have a CHP, may want to know. I still stand by my assertion that a hip holster OC is still legal as long as it's not obscured to the point that it is no longer determinable to be a handgun. I've never been ina vehicle where the side bolsters were sufficient to hide anything. I've seen those rice cars with the "racing seats" and I guess those would qualify, but I wouldn't be caught driving one

Im sure you could argue that you were still open carry while sitting in your car, but im sure that a cop could argue that if your t-shirt was a little over your gun as you walked around walmart could be construed as "disguising the weapons true nature". Basically it comes down to the cop saying that he couldnt tell it was a gun until he checked or somthing. There is just too much gray area that if you can, just take it out so that there is NO way any cop could misinterpret what that thing in your center consol or car seat is.

TheEggman · Jan 24, 2008

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And what are the charges officer?

He was carrying a concealed firearm your honor.

How did you know that?

I saw part of it sticking out from under his seatbelt.

If you saw it, and recognised it as a firearm, then just how was it concealed?

uhhh....ahhhh....duhhh

PackininVB · Jan 25, 2008

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TheEggman wrote:

And what are the charges officer?

He was carrying a concealed firearm your honor.

How did you know that?

I saw part of it sticking out from under his seatbelt.

If you saw it, and recognised it as a firearm, then just how was it concealed?

uhhh....ahhhh....duhhh

...because it looked like it MIGHT be a firearm so I asked him

...because i went in for a closer look to discover that it was in fact a firearm.

...because i am trained to notice such things.

...I couldnt tell if it was, it didnt look like one at first until i asked him what that was under his seatbelt.

...because when he turned his body to get his wallet out of his back pocket i could then tell that it was a firearm.

Im not a cop, nor do i want to be one, i just dont want anyone, especially those new to OC to think that something is ok because they read it on here. It may very well be ok, but in this matter theres alot of gray area and it pays to be safe (or you could be paying a fine, and it comes down to what the officer says, which could be anything including the examples ive given).

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