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Thread: Mistaken for a Bank Robber while CCing in Tacoma

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    So I was driving to a client's residence in Tacoma today, when I had a "run-in" with the Tacoma Police Department. I'm going to try and leave nothing out, so this will be long-winded. You have been warned.

    I'm driving south on Orchard, and had just gone through the light at 12th, and I noticed a dark brown-colored Impala w/tint behind me. It looks to me like an unmarked unit, so I just make a mental note and head toward the next light. He got in front of me on the way towards 19th, where we both made a right on to 19th and then an immediate left back onto Orchard once we had crossed the overpass. I stayed in the right lane, as I was going to go straight, and the left two lanes are the onramp to 16 Westbound. He was still in front of me as we were going straight. I noticed a TPD unit, lightbar on, creeping past the "onramp traffic" and it almost looked like he was doing very thorough seatbelt checks as he stopped and looked at everyone he was passing. I thought this was kind of odd, but I was 3 lanes away from him, so my lane just kept moving forward. We went through the light, and started up the slight hill there, and as I did so I noticed this unit pulled in behind me. There is a median there, and I wanted to get past the median before I stopped, so that he could continue and I wouldn't block his way. As soon as I got far enough past the median, I pulled over and he passed me, signaling the Impala for a stop. They stopped about50 yards in front of me. Within about 15-20 seconds, there were 7-10 cruisers, all taking a position behind this Impala, and officers with guns drawn taking stance for a felony traffic stop. They had him get out and start walking backwards towards them. I had my window down by now, trying to hear what was going on in front of me. One of them near the back of the pack, closest to me, was signaling to me something, that looked to me like "back-up," but could have easily meant "stay put." (He was showing me his palms w/all 10 fingers up and thrusting them in my direction.) So I started to very slowly back up, and that was when another unit came from behind me (TP1), and pulled in to do a traffic stop on me. I'm thinking, "OK? Maybe he can tell me what's going on."

    He got out of his car, staying behind the door, and shouted "Go ahead and turn your vehicle off."

    Me: "OK." (I had to shout a little so that he could hear me.)

    TP1: "Keep your hands where I can see them, and slowly exit your vehicle." My hands were already out the window, so that he could see I was going to be cooperative.

    Me: "OK. I am licensed to carry a handgun."

    TP1: "Are you currently armed?"

    Me: "Yes, I am."

    TP1: "Alright then. Stay where you are and keep your hands outside the vehicle." He walked up and took out his cuffs and said "My partner is on the other side of the vehicle, so just comply with me or you might get shot, alright? You're not under arrest, but I am going to put these on you for now." He cuffed my left arm (through the open window) and opened the door and had me step out. He had mebringmy right arm back and hefinished cuffing me behind my back. We walked back behind my car, next to his cruiser where I saw the other officer who was assisting him with my stop, and he asked me "Where is your weapon?"

    Me: "On my left ankle." He reached down and undid the velro band on my Galco Ankle Glove holding my Kahr P9 Covert in it. He took it and put it in the front seat of his cruiser. He also took my Emerson CQC-7 which had been clipped to my right pocket, and the spare mag out of my left pocket.

    TP1: "Don't let me forget these."

    Me:"OK." He continued to frisk me, and left my keys and cell phone in my pockets where he found them. "I don't suppose I could ask what's going on?"

    TP1: "There was just an armed bank robbery, and you happen to match the description of the suspect."

    Me: "Oh, alright. Is that him in that car up there?"

    TP1: "They're pretty sure. I appreciate you being cooperative with me, and the way that you handled the fact that you were carrying. If you have any friends with CPL's, tell them this story and tell them that I said you did EXACTLY what we like to have happen. I would have been pissed if I had found out you were armed after I had gotten you out."

    Me: "Sure, I understand. Nobody likes surprises like THAT."

    TP1: "I'm gonna hold on to these [my WADL and CPL were in his hands now, as he had gotten out my wallet and found them] until we can verify that everything is OK. I'm sorry to have inconvenienced you, and I really do appreciate your cooperation in this. I'm gonna have you take a seat just for a moment."

    TP1 opened up the back seat of his patrol car and I sat down inside. He went to talk with what I later found out was the lead detective on scene, and I sat there and laughed to myself in the back of the unit. He came back after a few minutes and sat in the drivers seat as he called in my WADL, my CPL, the registration on my vehicle, and even my Kahr's serial number. Everything came back clear, and so he apologized again, and said that the detective now had my license, so he'll be back in a moment, and they would let me go at that point. A minute or so later,the detective came up and TP1 and he conversed a minute or so outside thecruiser. I couldn't hear the entirety of their conversation but I did hear the det ask TP1 if I had been apologized to or not yet. They both came around to themy side of the car and the detective opened up the door.

    Det: "Go ahead and step out for me here.[Iget out of the car, and TP1 starts touncuff me.] I'mDetectiveso-and-so, and we are sorry about the mistake. We've got the guy we were looking for, andyou and he look fairly similar. Thank you for your cooperationhere, and again, we're sorry about the inconvenience.The officer tellsme that you're onbusiness, do we need to call your boss or anyone and let them know why you're late?"

    Me: "Nope,it's fine."

    Det: "OK. Again we appreciate you being cooperative with us and sorry about this, I guess you were just at the wrong place at the wrong time. If you have any questions, or someone needs to know where you were, here's my card [he hands me his business card].

    Me: "Sounds good."

    TP1: "I've put your knife and spare mag in your cup holder, and the pistol is in it's holster underneath the seat. Do me a favor and drive away a little ways before you put it back on your ankle. There's still a bunch of cops around, and we can get a little nervous if we see a civilian messing around with a gun in their hands."

    Me: "That's fine. I'm glad you got your man."

    TP1: "Yeah, it's always a good day when you can get a bank robber off the street a few minutes after the robbery occured. Here's my badge and ID number, in case you have any need for it. Go ahead and hop in your car and I'll stop the traffic so that you can go."

    So I hopped into my vehicle, started it up, and he stopped traffic so I could pull in. As I pulled into the lane,I waved and said to both of them "Stay safe, guys." They waved and I drove away. (Edit to add: I found my mag and knife in the cup holder and my gun, still loaded, in the holster underneath my seat and re-armed myself at the next stoplight, while no one was looking.) THE END

    My rule of thumb has been that if I was being pulled over for a minor traffic infraction, I usually don't inform that I'm carrying. As it is not required by law. I figure that if the officer was getting me out of the vehicle for some reason (mistaken identity or not) that it's courteous to the officer to let him/her know that I am armed.

    To save on space, please don't quote this whole story. If you need to quote some of it, please delete the portions that you aren't going to directly comment on.

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    My rule of thumb has been that if I was being pulled over for a minor traffic infraction, I usually don't inform that I'm carrying. As it is not required by law. I figure that if the officer was getting me out of the vehicle for some reason (mistaken identity or not) that it's courteous to the officer to let him/her know that I am armed.
    Yes. Exactly.

    To save on space, please don't quote this whole story. If you need to quote some of it, please delete the portions that you aren't going to directly comment on.
    Yes! Exactly! Too much wasted bandwidth on this forum.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    He came back after a few minutes and sat in the drivers seat as he called in my WADL, my CPL, the registration on my vehicle, and even my Kahr's serial number.
    Sounds like a pretty eventful nonevent. I pulled the quote above out because I have issues with what they did. Little Hitler (Olsen) did the same to me when he illegally detained me on Ruston.

    It really torques me when they run this information because it sounds like a fishing expedition. Did the teller at the bank write down the serial number of the gun when he/she was being robbed? Then for what earthly reason did they feel it necessary to run the gun’s numbers?

    Anyway, it sounds like you had a memorable afternoon!

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    While normally I'd have to protest the detention, cuffing, etc., the circumstances did seem to justify some precautions. (Recent robbery w/ you matching description of thief, etc.)

    PLEASE, write a note to the supervisors involved and let them know just how courteous, polite and professional these officers were in their demeanor.

    People are often quick to write letters of protest, and even though the professional behaviour you experienced is what we should EXPECT, it does deserve recognition.

    Stay safe and a +1 for everyone involved, except the robber who should get around 20.

    Best

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    Fancy that a bank robber disguised as you.:what:

    Sounds like these cops did a good job. They were courteous and explained what they were doing. That is far better than just being ordered to the ground and cuffed or some such thing. As far as running your license and serial numbers, I have mixed feelings on that. Anyhow good job on your part, good job on their part. Staying cool can sometimes be difficult.

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    I do hope you've learned your lesson.

    Next time don't look like a bank robber - wear a disguise.

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    I forgot to mention, this happened at about 0945 on Thursday, the 24th of January. I was kinda hoping that Mainsail would have been listening to his scanner to post something about the bank robbery, which I overheard happened around the 6th Ave & MLK neighborhood (although I think they meant 11th and MLK, as there is a Columbia and a Key Bank w/in a block of there).

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    Mainsail wrote:
    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    He came back after a few minutes and sat in the drivers seat as he called in my WADL, my CPL, the registration on my vehicle, and even my Kahr's serial number.
    Sounds like a pretty eventful nonevent. I pulled the quote above out because I have issues with what they did. Little Hitler (Olsen) did the same to me when he illegally detained me on Ruston.

    It really torques me when they run this information because it sounds like a fishing expedition. Did the teller at the bank write down the serial number of the gun when he/she was being robbed? Then for what earthly reason did they feel it necessary to run the gun’s numbers?

    Anyway, it sounds like you had a memorable afternoon!
    While I guess it could be viewed as a little bit of a fishing expedition, I didn't feel that it was totally out of the normal realm, as I did match the description, and they didn't know exactly what kind of car he left in, and, the crime did occur with a handgun, which was ditched along the way somewhere. So there was no real way of knowing if the robber had driven away in one car, and then hijacked anothervehicle, like MINE!!! They were looking for someone that looked like me, WITH a gun, and driving in that general vicinity. Checking to make sure I was me, the car was mine, and my gun was mine I think was within the practical scope of making sure they got the right guy.

    Plus, and this was the big thing, I wasdealt with in a professionalmanner the entire time. OnceTP1 saw that I was willing to comply, and that I would offer no verbal or physical resistance, his tone with me turned from a "YOU'RE MINE"-attitude to a "Let's figure this out and get you on your way"-attitude. I appreciated that, to say the least.

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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:

    Plus, and this was the big thing, I wasdealt with in a professionalmanner the entire time. OnceTP1 saw that I was willing to comply, and that I would offer no verbal or physical resistance, his tone with me turned from a "YOU'RE MINE"-attitude to a "Let's figure this out and get you on your way"-attitude. I appreciated that, to say the least.
    I think that is the key right there and I appreciate you posting this in the manner you did and the way you handled it.

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    While my first inclination was to be angry about this, after taking the whole story in context and reading your comments, I think that this was a very unfortunate set of circumstances that turned out about as good as you could have hoped.

    A BIG +1 from me on your/the officers' attitudes and professionalism. I am glad that this worked out for the best and there were no trips "downtown."

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    PT111 wrote:
    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:

    Plus, and this was the big thing, I wasdealt with in a professionalmanner the entire time. OnceTP1 saw that I was willing to comply, and that I would offer no verbal or physical resistance, his tone with me turned from a "YOU'RE MINE"-attitude to a "Let's figure this out and get you on your way"-attitude. I appreciated that, to say the least.
    I think that is the key right there and I appreciate you posting this in the manner you did and they way you handled it.
    You did great G20. I know it really sucks to have guns pointed at you, but by being compliant, telling them that you were armed, and offering no verbal grief, you were well on your way to affirming to the officer's that you were not the right person.

    Do not think of this as a "mistake" on the Police's part, because they were doing what any good Officer would which is being observant, and noticingsomeone who wasclose to the suspect's description.

    You knew you were innocent, but the Officer's couldn't possibly know this initially. They have to assume the worst, and go accordingly until proven otherwise.

    These scenarios do happen, although not frequently, and It sounds like you handled it textbook perfect. I am glad that you were treated in such a professional manner, but that was not completely by chance. Your attitude "set the tone" for the entire contact. I have talked about this in other posts, but it is worth mentioning again. A good attitude(when contacted by Police) will generally go a long way toward making the contact go smoother and quicker (and the outcome more to your liking).

    In your case they were nottrying to give you any grief, but onlywantedtodetermine if you were the person they were looking for, and if not send you on your way so their attention could focus on finding the real bg.
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    I forgot to mention, this happened at about 0945 on Thursday, the 24th of January. I was kinda hoping that Mainsail would have been listening to his scanner to post something about the bank robbery, which I overheard happened around the 6th Ave & MLK neighborhood (although I think they meant 11th and MLK, as there is a Columbia and a Key Bank w/in a block of there).
    At approximately 9:15 A.M. this morning the Key Bank in the 3900 block of No. 26th street was robbed by a lone white male. The suspect was wearing a mask and was armed with a semi-automatic handgun. He entered the bank, pointed the gun at a teller and demanded money. After receiving the money he fled on foot. He ran to his vehicle, which was parked nearby, and fled the area. As the suspect was getting into the vehicle he dropped his gun. The weapon was recovered by officers responding to the bank. The suspect and vehicle were located a short time later and the suspect was taken into custody without incident. The money was recovered and after being interviewed by detectives the suspect was booked into the Pierce County jail.

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    TP1: ""My partner is on the other side of the vehicle, so just comply with me or you might get shot, alright?"

    TP1: "There was just an armed bank robbery, and you happen to match the description of the suspect."

    Seems like a threat to kill you.



    "You happen to look like the droids..." I smell BS.

    Were you in a Impala? Like the car ahead of you they pulled over.

    Were you in a brown car? Like the car ahead of you they pulled over.

    So if your car didn't match that description, it would be interesting if you did (hair color, skin color, clothing)... and how likely it is that an officer could ascertain if you match a physical description while driving by at 15mph? 20mph?



    Sounds like you did everything right, in a wrong situation.


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    You're not under arrest, but I am going to put these on you for now." He cuffed my left arm (through the open window) and opened the door and had me step out. He had mebringmy right arm back and hefinished cuffing me behind my back. We walked back behind my car, next to his cruiser where I saw the other officer who was assisting him with my stop, and he asked me "Where is your weapon?"


    I am sorry, but this sounds like an arrest to me. My response would have been, "If you are not arresting me, then am I free to go?" How can you comply with the number running of your weapons, the cuffing, search of car, seizing of your property, all while he is saying to cover his butt, "Well son, I'm not arresting you..."

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    TwoPistols wrote:
    I am sorry, but this sounds like an arrest to me. My response would have been, "If you are not arresting me, then am I free to go?" How can you comply with the number running of your weapons, the cuffing, search of car, seizing of your property, all while he is saying to cover his butt, "Well son, I'm not arresting you..."
    Sorry to stick my nose into a matter on the opposite side of the country from me, but I'm having a little trouble understanding the logic behind this comment. Although there are a few changes I would like to make to the document, I am a pure Consitituionalist. I despise the meddling behemoth that our government has become, and I am as adamant as anyone when it comes to liberty and personal freedoms.

    I do not agree with some of the things done by the officers during this incident (running the gun s/n, for example). However, we must allow law enforcement some latitude in order to do their job. Unless we abolish the police entirely, we must be willing to suffer certain reasonable inconveniences on occasion.

    IMHO, TwoPistols' comment does not quite rise to this level, but if we limit the scope and ability of law enforcement to the degree advocated by some, then we may as well not even have any.

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    TwoPistols wrote:
    You're not under arrest, but I am going to put these on you for now." He cuffed my left arm (through the open window) and opened the door and had me step out. He had mebringmy right arm back and hefinished cuffing me behind my back. We walked back behind my car, next to his cruiser where I saw the other officer who was assisting him with my stop, and he asked me "Where is your weapon?"


    I am sorry, but this sounds like an arrest to me. My response would have been, "If you are not arresting me, then am I free to go?" How can you comply with the number running of your weapons, the cuffing, search of car, seizing of your property, all while he is saying to cover his butt, "Well son, I'm not arresting you..."
    I completely disagree. Under normal circumstances you are correct, but in this case he actually looked like the felony suspect. This particular situation went down perfectly, and the officers did nothing wrong (except for fishing by running the gun's s/n). I really doubt that things would have went well for you if you were to argue with them over the detainment.

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    expvideo wrote:
    TwoPistols wrote:
    This particular situation went down perfectly, and the officers did nothing wrong

    I agree, well done to all involved. This isn't a standard OC harrassment where the officer starts out wrong and then looks for an excuse to make it right. The officer was exercising proper caution in looking for an armed felon.

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    I really doubt that things would have went well for you if you were to argue with them over the detainment.

    Perhaps, but I disagree. Detaining (wups! I mean not detaining, I mean, well a stop, but not a stop... what would you call it?)everyone within a mile radius who is of the same general description of a perp at the point of a gun (but carefully NOT arresting them) is not police work, it's Police State work.

    Supposedly I cannot be shot unless the officer feels his life or the life of another is in jeopardy. My challenging the arrest should not fall into a shooting situation. Demanding my rights, not handing over my guns and submitting to apublic police anal exam should not be controversial. A respectful; "Officer, am I being detained? If not, I am leaving and you can talk to my lawyer." is howany free man should respond to a police general mass search and a gunpoint "Citizen, Let me see your papers".






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    expvideo wrote:
    TwoPistols wrote:
    You're not under arrest, but I am going to put these on you for now." He cuffed my left arm (through the open window) and opened the door and had me step out. He had mebringmy right arm back and hefinished cuffing me behind my back. We walked back behind my car, next to his cruiser where I saw the other officer who was assisting him with my stop, and he asked me "Where is your weapon?"


    I am sorry, but this sounds like an arrest to me. My response would have been, "If you are not arresting me, then am I free to go?" How can you comply with the number running of your weapons, the cuffing, search of car, seizing of your property, all while he is saying to cover his butt, "Well son, I'm not arresting you..."
    I completely disagree. Under normal circumstances you are correct, but in this case he actually looked like the felony suspect. This particular situation went down perfectly, and the officers did nothing wrong (except for fishing by running the gun's s/n). I really doubt that things would have went well for you if you were to argue with them over the detainment.
    This story sounded fine and dandy until mainsail posted what I awesome to be a press release associated with the actual robbery:

    At approximately 9:15 A.M. this morning the Key Bank in the 3900 block of No. 26th street was robbed by a lone white male. The suspect was wearing a mask and was armed with a semi-automatic handgun. He entered the bank, pointed the gun at a teller and demanded money. After receiving the money he fled on foot. He ran to his vehicle, which was parked nearby, and fled the area. As the suspect was getting into the vehicle he dropped his gun. The weapon was recovered by officers responding to the bank. The suspect and vehicle were located a short time later and the suspect was taken into custody without incident. The money was recovered and after being interviewed by detectives the suspect was booked into the Pierce County jail.

    So how exactly did G20 "match the description of the suspect"?


    G20 - I'd really like to know the answers to Dave's questions:

    Were you in a Impala? Like the car ahead of you they pulled over.

    Were you in a brown car? Like the car ahead of you they pulled over.


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    The police are always going off of limited information. It's possible that his clothing matched the robber's. When the police got a description of the masked man, perhaps the only description they got was "White male in his 30's, 6'2", 190 lbs, wearing a blue pinstripe suit and a red tie"

    Now if he happens to be a white male in his 30's, 6'2", 190 lbs, wearing a blue suit with a red tie, AND happens to be in the same vacinity that the robber was reported in, then he is probably going to be stopped and identified, possibly detained until he can be identified.

    As a constitutionalist, I find this acceptable. I also find the actions and demeanor of the police officers to have been outstanding.

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    Personally I would have to go a head and verify that there was in fact a robbery. I flat out don't trust the police. They have lied too many times to too many citizens.

    1) File a freedom of information act request

    2) check crime reports and even call the bank branch if you must

    Even in a case with a potential robbery suspect, I object to guns being pointed at a citizen. Pointed in the general direction with the figure outside the trigger guard, OK.

    With the accidental dischargekilling of Dr. Salvatore Culosi by Fairfax County Police, along with the fact that police accidentally kill 330 people annually, I don't believe the police should be able to point a firearm at a citizen ever until they intend to shoot.

    The police have the advantage in numbers (in most situations) and are acting under the color of law. Should they be at the tactical disadvantage in a few cases by having their finger off the trigger, that's preferred to a citizen being accidentally killed 330 times per year (on average). The officer accepted the job andit is totally acceptable forthemto be at greater risk than a citizen merely out about his business.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    expvideo wrote:
    I completely disagree. Under normal circumstances you are correct, but in this case he actually looked like the felony suspect.
    Allegedly.

    How often has a cop lied to a member here about WA gun laws, in an attempt to force a behavior change? I've read many accounts of that nature...

    "You can't open carry, it's illegal" -- straight from the mouths of blue. "Yes this is the 3rd time I've stopped you for this offense, the last 2 times you were legal and my boss yelled at me but dammit I'll just keep lying about probable cause and harass you anyways."

    This traffic stop cop knew he had to cover his butt in order to go from "you're not under arrest" to "disarm him, seize his identification, slap cuffs on him, jerk him out of his car, run the serial number of his gun, etc."

    Was the victim (the OP) actually in a car that matched the description of the one leaving the bank robbery scene?

    Was his clothing very similar in design and color?

    Was he wearing the same mask, so the cops could identify skin color, hair color, etc and match him to the description from the bank robbery.

    Was he the same general heigth and weight -- which is really easy to tell when a guy is sitting in a car and driving by at 5 or 10 MPH.



    I suspect an unconstitutional 'fishing net' was being used. Or an unconstitutional racial profiling approach -- you're near the bank and you're WHITE! Hands up!

    I suspect the cop lied. Color me jaded.




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    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

  23. #23
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    May 2006
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    Shasta County, California, USA
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    Post imported post

    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    TP1: "I've put your knife and spare mag in your cup holder, and the pistol is in it's holster underneath the seat. Do me a favor and drive away a little ways before you put it back on your ankle. There's still a bunch of cops around, and we can get a little nervous if we see a civilian messing around with a gun in their hands."
    Yeah, only the only people 'profesional' enough handle a firearm are policemen. The OP had already submitted to a search where consent was not obtained, allowed the police to disarm him and was polite enough to cooperate without complaint- and he cannot reholster his firearm without the responding policemen being jumpy?

    Sorry, but this is in my opnion, more of the "US" versus "Them" bullsh*tthat makes policemen MORE equal than citizens. Like has been recommended above, I would FOIA the incident to eliminate any possibility that someone was just covering their ass after putting the grab on the wrong guy.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  24. #24
    Regular Member
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    Post imported post

    jack wrote:
    the fact that police accidentally kill 330 people annually,
    That little factoid would be useful with a cite. Where'd you get it?


  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Tacoma, WA, ,
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    Post imported post

    Here's a what if?>>>>

    So lets say I was an accomplice to my brother robbing this bank. I park about 300 yards from the bank, sheilding his vehicle from view with my GMC 1500 Van which is what I was driving. He makes the robbery, runs from the scene towards me (and his vehicle) and drops his disguise and the cash in my van before hopping into his Impala and speeding off. I wait about 30 seconds, so that anyone giving a description of the "suspect vehicle" leaving the parking lot, doesn't notice my van being part of the get-away. We drive separately along a different route for about 3 minutes and meet up, ready to get on the freeway and make our break. The officers pull in behind the Impala and a white van that was following him closely, but since the suspect's vehicle was an Impala, and not a white van, they do not pull over the van. Now, they arrest my brother, but he couldn't be positively identified as the robber because of his disguise in the bank, and there was no disguise found in his car, nor was there any money found in his car, so he gets released a few minutes later. I'm in the white van, with the money and all incriminating evidence, and I also get away because the cops weren't willing to pull the other guy over. Close, but no cigar. Everyone gets off. Oh well, the bad guys win this one.

    Also, as I think that there has been some unfounded speculation on this subject, I have no reason to suspect that I was ever at gunpoint at any time during this stop. I was able to see TP1 from the get go, and his G21 never cleared the leather. The only cop that possibly had weapon drawn was TP1's partner, who was on the passender side of the van, but I never saw a drawn weapon, and surely never saw one pointed in my direction. That would have been mentioned in my original post.

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