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Thread: question about preventing carry into areas...

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    Sorry the title is so crapy, but I couldnt figure out how to word it... lol

    Ok, so I was going to the hospital where I live to see a friend, and my wife and I were talking about the "no firearm aloud" that were posted on the doors.

    I made a comment about how the University of Washington Medical Center had a similar posting on its doors so when I carry up there I cant carry in the hospital. She then made a comment about how the security guards there carry service pistols. I have never seen them carry so I cant confirm this or not....

    Now correct me if I am wrong, but I didnt think that a place could disarm people but have armed guards... I thought I had read that somewhere. I've never had a problem with the UoW Medical center and I've accidently carried in there (conceal carry) before I found out there policy but I was curious about this when my wife told me that the guards carry....

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    Private establishments can have armed guards and policies that prevent firearms. The guards are licensed with the state and are exempt from thier employee policy preventing firearms. Remember most places have a policy for the public and a seperate policy for its employees.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

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    The UW has its own police force, the officers of which are armed, but the security guards of the hospital are unarmed (at least at the Medical Center, not sure about Harborview). Carrying there is against the law (WAC), but is not a crime. For the general public, the penalty for being caught is no more than being asked to leave, same as at the mall or other private business. For students, staff, faculty, etc., the penalty can be suspension, expulsion, or termination. I am not a lawyer.

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    Well your firearm shouldn't be talking aloud! Tell him to pipe down. :what: Couldn't resist the urge. hehe.

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    Let me put this in simple terms:

    • The sign is completely meaningless, and the most they can do is ask you to leave if you are discovered. There is no law whatsoever to prevent you from carrying at the hospital, or at the UofW.
    • If it was illegal for you to carry a gun, it would be illegal for a security guard to carry a gun too. They aren't police officers and they have no more rights than you do, regardless of a police officer look-alike uniform.
    • The only thing you have to worry about is a psychological institution. If it's a mental hospital, or the mental section of the hospital, guns are not permitted per WA state law.
    • Carry the gun anyway, it's not illegal at the hospital.
    • Carry the gun anyway, it's not illegal at the UW medical center.
    • Carry the gun anyway, it's not illegal at the UW.

    I hope that is clear enough. The sign is just there to make you think that they can enforce it. It is not legally a gun free zone, they just want you to treat it that way, and frankly, they can take that opinion and shove it, because I carry at the hospital all the time. Are you reffering to Northwest Hospital in Northgate? I know that they have "No Weapons" signs and armed security guards.

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    RCW 9.41.300
    Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.

    [/b](1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

    (a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;

    (b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).

    In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

    The local judicial authority shall designate and clearly mark those areas where weapons are prohibited, and shall post notices at each entrance to the building of the prohibition against weapons in the restricted areas;

    (c) The restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress and ingress open to the general public;

    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

    (e) The restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration, including passenger screening checkpoints at or beyond the point at which a passenger initiates the screening process. These areas do not include airport drives, general parking areas and walkways, and shops and areas of the terminal that are outside the screening checkpoints and that are normally open to unscreened passengers or visitors to the airport. Any restricted access area shall be clearly indicated by prominent signs indicating that firearms and other weapons are prohibited in the area.

    (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

    (a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and

    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    (ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.

    (3)(a) Cities, towns, and counties may enact ordinances restricting the areas in their respective jurisdictions in which firearms may be sold, but, except as provided in (b) of this subsection, a business selling firearms may not be treated more restrictively than other businesses located within the same zone. An ordinance requiring the cessation of business within a zone shall not have a shorter grandfather period for businesses selling firearms than for any other businesses within the zone.

    (b) Cities, towns, and counties may restrict the location of a business selling firearms to not less than five hundred feet from primary or secondary school grounds, if the business has a storefront, has hours during which it is open for business, and posts advertisements or signs observable to passersby that firearms are available for sale. A business selling firearms that exists as of the date a restriction is enacted under this subsection (3)(b) shall be grandfathered according to existing law.

    (4) Violations of local ordinances adopted under subsection (2) of this section must have the same penalty as provided for by state law.

    (5) The perimeter of the premises of any specific location covered by subsection (1) of this section shall be posted at reasonable intervals to alert the public as to the existence of any law restricting the possession of firearms on the premises.

    (6) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) A person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments, while engaged in official duties;

    (b) Law enforcement personnel, except that subsection (1)(b) of this section does apply to a law enforcement officer who is present at a courthouse building as a party to an action under chapter 10.14, 10.99, or 26.50 RCW, or an action under Title 26 RCW where any party has alleged the existence of domestic violence as defined in RCW 26.50.010; or

    (c) Security personnel while engaged in official duties.

    (7) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises or checks his or her firearm. The person may reclaim the firearms upon leaving but must immediately and directly depart from the place or facility.

    (8) Subsection (1)(c) of this section does not apply to any administrator or employee of the facility or to any person who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises.

    (9) Subsection (1)(d) of this section does not apply to the proprietor of the premises or his or her employees while engaged in their employment.

    (10) Any person violating subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

    (11) "Weapon" as used in this section means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or instrument or weapon listed in RCW 9.41.250.
    Here are the only exceptions. If it is a restricted access area of a public mental health facility, only the employees (such as security guards) can carry guns (unless you obtain written permission). This is the only mention of carrying in a hospital in WA state law.

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    expvideo wrote:




    RCW 9.41.300
    Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.

    [/b]
    (6) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) A person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments, while engaged in official duties;

    (b) Law enforcement personnel, except that subsection (1)(b) of this section does apply to a law enforcement officer who is present at a courthouse building as a party to an action under chapter 10.14, 10.99, or 26.50 RCW, or an action under Title 26 RCW where any party has alleged the existence of domestic violence as defined in RCW 26.50.010; or

    (c) Security personnel while engaged in official duties.
    I qualify as security personnel on official duty as I'm my own security officer. Oh yeah, and I did for weeks at a time while first my mother was there a couple of years ago and just last fall when my wife was there for a couple of weeks. Their security people could spot a gun with a neon flashing arrow pointing at it, much less a real bad guy or crazy.

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    Cool, thanks guys, I have never had any problems there, but I was just curious..... And it was the Univeristy of Washington Medical Center, Expvideo, in down town Seattle

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    s2ua7 wrote:
    Cool, thanks guys, I have never had any problems there, but I was just curious..... And it was the Univeristy of Washington Medical Center, Expvideo, in down town Seattle
    The UW Med Center is in the U District, downtown is acrossLake Union, the cut and the Ship Canal.

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    UWMC has their own PD that is armed, yet the hospital security guards are not. Harborview, which is it's own entity, in connection with UWMC, also hasunarmed security, per hospital policy. To counteract this, they have either SPD or the WaSP's standing by, armed as usual. Add all the incoming and outgoing PD types, KC jail, and other various armed entities, and you've got most everywhere covered! I take patients to both of these hospitals on a regular basis, and don't think twice about who's armed and who's not, as both are usually present.

    Off topic... Had my first OC'ing experience today, and only got one weird look from a guy that started to get a little too close in the line at Starbucks ,but backed WAY off when he noticed (:shock, as I am probably some evil, wrongdoing MWAG... The employees there didn't say anything about it, and know me somewhat well. Went out to do some other stuff, and nothing came of my OC'ing around.

    Had my M&P 9 in a Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster, loaded w/ Federal Hydra-Shok's.

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    Sounds like you had a good first experience and welcome to the boards Waldo!

    May all your OC outings be uneventful!
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    Hey waldo, Good to have you aboard. Do I understand you are a paramedic or EMT? Do you carry while on duty? I would imagine in your line of work carrying a gun may come in handy. ( Going into some unsavoury areas and whatnot )

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    EMT here, but going back to school to get my RN, so someday I will get todo medevac work.As for on-duty carry... My company PROHIBITS me from carrying while on-duty, as well as while Iam on company property. At work, I wear a Level II ballistic vest with a ceramic traumaplate under my uniform shirt. However, I would rather carry as well, as I don't think my vest would be very effective in being able to protect anyone else but myself. Others think it's an all-aroundbad idea, either vest or sidearm...




    Also, I don't know if there are any WAC's or RCW's pertaining to: The carrying of weapons onbard ambulances...:what:

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    WaldoTheMedic wrote:
    EMT here, but going back to school to get my RN, so someday I will get to*do medevac work.*As for on-duty carry... My company PROHIBITS me from carrying while on-duty, as well as while I*am on company property. At work, I wear a Level II ballistic vest with a ceramic trauma*plate under my uniform shirt. However, I would rather carry as well, as I don't think my vest would be very effective in being able to protect anyone else but myself. Others think it's an all-around*bad idea, either vest or sidearm...




    Also, I don't know if there are any WAC's or RCW's pertaining to: The carrying of weapons onbard ambulances...:what:
    At the VFD that my brother worked at, they had to requisition ballistic vests from the county for their o2 in the ambo, even for the M's.....

    Crime was so bad that the guys wouldn't even run after they shot the guy, they'd stay to make sure EMT's couldn't help, THEN run...
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    WaldoTheMedic wrote:
    Others think it's an all-aroundbad idea, either vest or sidearm...
    How on earth could wearing a vest be a bad idea? What is wrong with those people?

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    heresolong wrote:
    WaldoTheMedic wrote:
    Others think it's an all-aroundbad idea, either vest or sidearm...
    How on earth could wearing a vest be a bad idea? What is wrong with those people?
    The world is full of amazingly stupid people that would die if nature was left to her own devices. However society works it's ass off keeping them alive and reproducing more of their kindfor some totally unfathomablereason.

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    The world is full of amazingly stupid people that would die if nature was left to her own devices. However society works it's ass off keeping them alive and reproducing more of their kindfor some totally unfathomablereason.
    That is by far the best, most quotable thing I've ever heard you say That's worthy of engraving on something.

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    expvideo wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    The world is full of amazingly stupid people that would die if nature was left to her own devices. However society works it's ass off keeping them alive and reproducing more of their kindfor some totally unfathomablereason.
    That is by far the best, most quotable thing I've ever heard you say That's worthy of engraving on something.
    I know a lot of things, but ifI getpissed off, I never use them. There is always my favorite (says the same as the one above);

    "In Nature there is only one capital crime. That is stupidity. There is only one sentence for this crime. DEATH!!!! Sentence is carried out immediately, there is no appeal."

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    Kahlil Gibran
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    One thing to consider about UWMC: It's considered a part of the campus of UW (medical teaching school) and as such, rules regarding the carry of firearms on educational campuses (grade to college) will apply. Oh, you can argue it to infinity but there was a hell of a row a few years back when off duty cops and CCWers were attending games at Husky Stadium. Police Chief at that time decided carry laws on school campuses would be enforced. It got ugly.

    Anyway, I'd check on the status of the location and I'd bet you will be prohibited, simply because the hospital is a part of the campus. Best place to start is a call to UWPD.

    Different story if you were visiting a separate medical clinic or detached location not directly involved in teaching or viewed as a campus.

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    Morris wrote:
    One thing to consider about UWMC: It's considered a part of the campus of UW (medical teaching school) and as such, rules regarding the carry of firearms on educational campuses (grade to college) will apply. Oh, you can argue it to infinity but there was a hell of a row a few years back when off duty cops and CCWers were attending games at Husky Stadium. Police Chief at that time decided carry laws on school campuses would be enforced. It got ugly.

    Anyway, I'd check on the status of the location and I'd bet you will be prohibited, simply because the hospital is a part of the campus. Best place to start is a call to UWPD.

    Different story if you were visiting a separate medical clinic or detached location not directly involved in teaching or viewed as a campus.
    WA state only limits carry on K-12 campuses, and pre-empts any other laws. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from carrying on a college campus. If you go to the college, you can be expelled for breaking their rules, but you can't be prosecuted because it's not illegal.

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    Just a thought, as I just got off work and am going to sleep.... What about all of the off-campus cops who come to UWMC to check on people from accidents, OD's and such? Hmm? On campus grounds with guns... Tsk, tsk.

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    Morris wrote:
    One thing to consider about UWMC: It's considered a part of the campus of UW (medical teaching school) and as such, rules regarding the carry of firearms on educational campuses (grade to college) will apply. Oh, you can argue it to infinity but there was a hell of a row a few years back when off duty cops and CCWers were attending games at Husky Stadium. Police Chief at that time decided carry laws on school campuses would be enforced. It got ugly.

    Anyway, I'd check on the status of the location and I'd bet you will be prohibited, simply because the hospital is a part of the campus. Best place to start is a call to UWPD.

    Different story if you were visiting a separate medical clinic or detached location not directly involved in teaching or viewed as a campus.
    What law? There is no law disallowing citizensfrom carrying on a college campus. So what law was being broken? A UW rule thatapplies to students and faculty only. So the chief decide to enforce a non-law. Yep, chiefs are politicians, not cops anymore.

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    I have, on multiple occasions, presented the case for carry on the UW campus, as I am a student there. Other campuses are different, due to their distinct Student Codes of Conduct.

    Please do a little search for those and you'll see that even students are technically safe from disciplinary action if they carry. Regular citizens are wholly safe, with the exception you can be tresspassed.

    Please also look at the recent legislation that has been talked about and will be presented at the Higher Education Committee this Thursday. It will affect whether or not both students AND non-students can legally carry onto any campus.
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