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Thread: Why does a delivery employee need a gun?

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    Man attacked, robbed while delivering food

    A 47-year-old Dale City man was robbed while delivering food in the 3000 block of Cahill Lane near Dumfries around 9:35 p.m. Jan. 18, said Officer Erika Hernandez, Prince William police spokeswoman.

    Police said the robber approached the man, demanded money and then punched the deliveryman to the ground.

    The robber stole an undisclosed amount of cash and fled.

    Police said he was described as a thin Hispanic man, between 18 and 25 years old, and approximately 5 feet 7 inches tall. He was wearing blue jeans, a black coat and a ski mask.

    The victim suffered a bloody nose and other injuries to the face, Hernandez said.

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    Answering the rhetorical question; the Second Amendment does not allow a needs based test. It "shall not be infringed."

    Any troll want a citation?

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Answering the rhetorical question; the Second Amendment does not allow a needs based test. It "shall not be infringed."

    Any troll want a citation?

    vrmiller is taking his thread title from a popular recurring theme in VCDL's email alert system, which, time after time, answer's the antis' question:

    "Who needs a gun in [insert desired victim disarmament zone here]?"

    ...followed by a link to a crime news item.

    So relax, it's a mocking of the antis' question inthe same"needs based" language they use.


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    Yes, thank you, I know.

    That's why I wrote:
    Answering the rhetorical question;...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question
    A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question posed for rhetorical effect rather than to receive an answer. Rhetorical questions encourage the listener to reflect on what the implied answer to the question must be. When a speaker declaims, "How much longer must our people endure this injustice?" or "Do you really think I want to have a Star Trek themed wedding?", or "How many times do I have to tell you to stop walking into the house with mud on your shoes?"; no formal answer is expected. Rather, it is a device used by the speaker to assert or deny something. Some language experts consider rhetorical questions to be in fact, grammatical errors when used formally.

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    Ahh, point taken. I thought you were jumping on the OP's case. Misunderstanding on my part.

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    For those reading over our shoulders, this is how gentlemen resolve their differences.

    A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

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    I thought it was with pistols at dawn...

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    'Read, understand and practice' (Norm Abrams, New Yankee Workshop); An armed society is a polite society' (R. A Heinlein). "Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth."

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    vrwmiller wrote:
    Man attacked, robbed while delivering food

    A 47-year-old Dale City man was robbed while delivering food in the 3000 block of Cahill Lane near Dumfries around 9:35 p.m. Jan. 18, said Officer Erika Hernandez, Prince William police spokeswoman.

    Police said the robber approached the man, demanded money and then punched the deliveryman to the ground.

    The robber stole an undisclosed amount of cash and fled.

    Police said he was described as a thin Hispanic man, between 18 and 25 years old, and approximately 5 feet 7 inches tall. He was wearing blue jeans, a black coat and a ski mask.

    The victim suffered a bloody nose and other injuries to the face, Hernandez said.

    Source
    Three attacks / robberies in one report. Beautiful. Makes me all warm and fuzzy.

    DC

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    DeadCenter wrote:
    Three attacks / robberies in one report. Beautiful. Makes me all warm and fuzzy.

    DC
    It's from a local paper (Manassas, Woodbridge, Dumfries/Triangle, Dale City, and the rest of Prince William County). I find it even more interesting that appearances are that the majority of violent crime in Prince William County occurrs on the east end of the county.

    It's one of the reasons I avoid the east end of the county when I can. Of course, I know that the west end of the county is just as vulnerable and is not immune to violent crime. In reading a lot of the drug reports though, it seems there are a fair amount of people on the west end smoking pot. So, maybe that's why the appearance is that there's less crime...their too happy and lazy to committ a crime

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    So question, some guy comes up, shoves you, and wants money. (No gun or weapon) What do you do?

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    wchiang wrote:
    So question, some guy comes up, shoves you, and wants money. (No gun or weapon) What do you do?
    Is it really as simple as no gun or weaon? At this point he's attempted robbery and committed battery. If he's not hugely built, I know he's not armed, and isn't really a threat I'd probably attempt to exit the situation, call the police, or both.

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    stryth wrote:
    Is it really as simple as no gun or weaon? At this point he's attempted robbery and committed battery. If he's not hugely built, I know he's not armed, and isn't really a threat I'd probably attempt to exit the situation, call the police, or both.
    I don't think that is usually the case. If he's looking to start a fight or really wants your money, he's not going to let it go. Even better, lets assume there's 2 or 3 of them starting to confront you. Now what?

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    wchiang wrote:
    stryth wrote:
    Is it really as simple as no gun or weaon? At this point he's attempted robbery and committed battery. If he's not hugely built, I know he's not armed, and isn't really a threat I'd probably attempt to exit the situation, call the police, or both.
    I don't think that is usually the case. If he's looking to start a fight or really wants your money, he's not going to let it go. Even better, lets assume there's 2 or 3 of them starting to confront you. Now what?
    Several assailants can significantly raise the issue of disparity of force in your favor. You can be hurt very badly and very quickly by several men attacking you.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    But it's still clear that you don't draw in these situations because no lethal force has been threatened against you. Is that correct?

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    wchiang wrote:
    stryth wrote:
    Is it really as simple as no gun or weaon? At this point he's attempted robbery and committed battery. If he's not hugely built, I know he's not armed, and isn't really a threat I'd probably attempt to exit the situation, call the police, or both.
    I don't think that is usually the case. If he's looking to start a fight or really wants your money, he's not going to let it go. Even better, lets assume there's 2 or 3 of them starting to confront you. Now what?
    Several assailants can significantly raise the issue of disparity of force in your favor. You can be hurt very badly and very quickly by several men attacking you.
    I'd definitely agree that this changes the disparity of force. This does seem like it's getting OT unless we're talking about the food delivery scenario?

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    What I want to know is how could this delivery person have used a firearm to his advantage? Even if he uncovers his jacket and leaves it holstered, that will be considered brandishing. What should he have done if he was carrying?

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    Could drawing your weapon and NOT firing in an attempted robbery situation really be considered brandishing in VA?

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    From my understanding, if lethal force is not threatened against you, you can not legally escalate the situation by threatening lethal force through drawing your firearm.

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    Someone that just tried to rob you is not going to call the PD and cry, HE BRANDISHED A GUN WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

    Try to rob me weapon or not and you will be staring down the barrel of a .45.

    Keep in mind the assailant was wearing a mask, this shows intent of foul play. If you want to wait for the BG to shoot you before you react we will place flowers by your headstone.

    Judged by 12 or carried by 6.........you choose.

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    vmathis12019 wrote:
    Could drawing your weapon and NOT firing in an attempted robbery situation really be considered brandishing in VA?
    That depends on what you do next, which should be to call the police immediately and report it before the other guy evenstops running. Don't let him make the first call.

    Next it depends on what comes out of your mouth when speaking to the police. I think I know what I would say, but that's my business.

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    casullshooter wrote:
    Someone that just tried to rob you is not going to call the PD and cry, HE BRANDISHED A GUN WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

    Try to rob me weapon or not and you will be staring down the barrel of a .45.

    Keep in mind the assailant was wearing a mask, this shows intent of foul play. If you want to wait for the BG to shoot you before you react we will place flowers by your headstone.

    Judged by 12 or carried by 6.........you choose.
    Actually there's a story on this forum of just that. A guy was attacked in a remote section of a parking lot of a movie theater. The BG was run off by his pointing his gun at him but the BG returned with a PO claiming he tried to shoot him! I think it ended up well IIRC but only after a lot of hassle for the guy.

    But I agree with you, I'm not going to sit there and try to guess what this guy has in mind for me. One knock to the head or such can make problems for you and things can happen fast. The mere fact he is trying to rob you with a mask should be enough. Even if it causes legal problems. Now, I sure wouldn't shoot the guy unless he actually threatens deadly force, or lunges at me once the gun is brandished.

    I would expect that brandishing is considered a bad thing due to the assumption that the one brandished to is not guilty of anything of that might require deadly force. Robbery is not in virginia IIRC. But I also cannot allow a criminal to come close to me while I am carrying a gun. If he steals it that would be bad right? Most times I've been mugged, it's been awhile, the BG doesn't believe I've given him everything and will search me. I can't let him get that close.

    Anyway that would be along the lines of my argument for justifying brandishing.

    Thoughts?

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    I recall that incident that Neplusultra is referring to. What I am trying to say is that drawing your gun in a situation where deadly force is not presented against you might cause some legal problems.

    I understand the mentality of wanting to draw when a thug (unarmed) starts hassling you. However when you report it to the police, a prosecutor/police may not see that you were justified in escalating the situation by threatening legal force. Then the questions becomes, is it worth trying to convince a jury that you were in fear of serious bodily harm because some guy was shoving you?

    Can we get LEO229 to shed his thoughts?

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    If I am presented with one or more threatening assailants and perceive myself to be in immediate danger of serious bodily harm, I WILL REACT.

    They have the means, opportunity and it is a "now" situation.
    What would a reasonable person due if presented with the same situation?
    Add a BG weapon to the mix and my reaction escalates.

    How far would I be forced to go? Hey, this is hypothetical situation of which we speak, but I will not go down voluntarily nor peaceably.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    casullshooter wrote:
    Someone that just tried to rob you is not going to call the PD and cry, HE BRANDISHED A GUN WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

    Try to rob me weapon or not and you will be staring down the barrel of a .45.

    Keep in mind the assailant was wearing a mask, this shows intent of foul play. If you want to wait for the BG to shoot you before you react we will place flowers by your headstone.

    Judged by 12 or carried by 6.........you choose.
    I second



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