Thoughts on the Smith and Wesson M&P

imported post

I own a full-size M&P40; first, and so far only, gun I've bought. I have yet to fire it, so I can't speak to FTFs, FTEs, etc.

I selected that model for a number of reasons. First, I'm familiar with 9mm semi-autos (BHP and G17) from my (Dutch) army service, so I wanted an autoloader in at least 9mm Para. Some friends of mine (women, no less) recommended upgunning to .40 S&W. Second, I'm a southpaw, so I wanted an ambidextrous firearm (which pretty much rules out revolvers); most Glocks don't qualify. Third, I wanted a weapon that also came in a (sub)compact version, so I could later add a (sub)compact CCW that had the same manual of arms as my full-size HD weapon.

My short-list came down to the H&K P2000, the Walther P99, the Springfield XD, and the M&P. The XD and M&P beat out the P2000 and P99 on the basis that they're more popular, and have developed (and continue to develop) a larger market for accessories (holsters, night sights, lasers, etc); keeping my options open, here. Ultimately, the M&P beat out the XD because of the extra safety features (internal lock, mag disconnect, sear disconnect). I know most shooters dislike these, but I have a small son (which is what prompted me to become a gun owner in the first place), currently 22 months, and I wanted a weapon I could make as secure as possible if left unattended. The $50 rebate and 2 mags sweetened the deal (S&W have extended that offer, by the way, until the end of April), though the rebate check has yet to arrive (even though the mags came a week ago).

Bearing in mind that I have not yet fired the weapon, it is comfortable to handle, points well, and strips and reassembles easily (especially if you don't bother with the "frame tool" to depress the sear disconnect lever, but just use a screwdriver or ballpoint pen). Loading the 15th round into the mags manually is difficult, but that can be overcome by investing in an UpLula or similar.

imported post

I have the M&P 9 and love it. Shot well from the get go and after about 3000 rounds I have had no problems with it at all. Like many said it feels very comfortable in my hand. When I bought it I was choosing between it and the Glock 19. After shooting both of them it was an easy choice. I also own the M&P 15.

imported post

I have the M&P .45 ACP really love it accurate smooth shooting. the breakdown is somewhat of a pain in the butt. Fits my hand perfectly. It comes with three differant hand grips to fit your hand nice feature. I oc mine is a speed scabbard that you can get from smith and wessons web site. I also carry it in a shoulder holster very nicely. For me the M&P worked out great.

imported post

A couple things I didn't like about the M&P: I don't like anything that keeps my gun from firing, so the mag-disconnect safety was a draw-back. I also didn't like the trigger action, as I prefer an action that can be fired again without having to completely rack the slide back (i.e. DA/SA). The M&P also seemed larger than it needed to be, all though that was partially due to its higher capacity.

I was comparing the M&P to the SW99/P99s. I ended up getting the SW99 with a DA/SA trigger. This way, every time I pull the trigger, the striker hits, period. Furthermore, there's nothing that can disable the weapon, like dropping the magazine.

imported post

I just bought one in a full size with Trijicon night sights. This thing shoots like a dream, has a little kick too it. I shot it side by side with a S&W Sigma, and this thing could go the distance. This weapon contains that .40 kick quite well.

imported post

DreQo wrote:

I was comparing the M&P to the SW99/P99s. I ended up getting the SW99 with a DA/SA trigger. This way, every time I pull the trigger, the striker hits, period. Furthermore, there's nothing that can disable the weapon, like dropping the magazine.

Click to expand...

I was looking at Walther P99, too. The ergos looked promising,plus the SA/DA function (like my Taurus). I tried one with the AS trigger andthe triggerwas awful--gritty with a long, hard DA pull. Don't know if the QA trigger would be any better, but for $600 I expect a better experience. I still haven't gotten around to auditioning the M&P.

imported post

I shot one at the range. I liked it. Very nice gun. My fiancee loved it and now she wants one.

imported post

Eeyore wrote:

DreQo wrote:

I was comparing the M&P to the SW99/P99s. I ended up getting the SW99 with a DA/SA trigger. This way, every time I pull the trigger, the striker hits, period. Furthermore, there's nothing that can disable the weapon, like dropping the magazine.

Click to expand...

I was looking at Walther P99, too. The ergos looked promising,plus the SA/DA function (like my Taurus). I tried one with the AS trigger andthe triggerwas awful--gritty with a long, hard DA pull. Don't know if the QA trigger would be any better, but for $600 I expect a better experience. I still haven't gotten around to auditioning the M&P.

Click to expand...

I've heard some people mention a gritty trigger when the gun was new. Apparently after the break-in period (or a lot of dry firing practice), it smoothes up. I didn't have this problem in the first place, so I dunno. The DA pull is definitely heavier than most DAO's, though .

imported post

DreQo wrote:

A couple things I didn't like about the M&P: I don't like anything that keeps my gun from firing, so the mag-disconnect safety was a draw-back.

Click to expand...

It can be acquired without the mag disconnect, but that version does have "CAUTION: CAPABLE OF FIRING WITH MAGAZINE REMOVED" engraved on the right side of the slide.

As for the lack of double-strike capability, well, that's a matter of personal preference, but personally, I'm of the school that thinks that if you suffer an FTFi in the middle of "dynamic critical situation," you're better off getting the bad round out of the way rather than trying to fire it again with no guarantee that won't get another FTFi (and another and another and another, until you've spent more time trying to get it to fire than you would have ejecting it).

As for size, a full-size M&P40 isn't that much bigger than a Glock 22; the M&P's 0.18" longer, 0.07" taller, 0.02" wider, and 1.33 oz heavier unloaded.

On a more general note, I finally had an opportunity to take my M&P40 to the range last Thursday. For purposes of "breaking in," I put 100 rounds of American Eagle 155-gr FMJ (that I picked up on sale) through it. I also fired 60 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 165-gr JHPs (my chosen defensive round) to test function, and 20 rounds of Speer Lawman 165-gr TMJ (which will be my training round; the remainder of the box I retained for the gunsmith who was going to need them to zero in the night sights he's putting on the weapon for me). No malfunctions of any sort, though the first time I inserted a magazine, it was a bit sticky and required a good tap to send it home. That only happened once, though, and was perhaps an effect of my having reversed the magazine release (as I said, I'm left-handed); maybe something wasn't quite fully seated until I slammed the first mag in.

The trigger wasn't what you'd call crisp (that "safe action" pistols for you), but I think the grittiness many people complain about comes from not knowing to lube the contact surface between the trigger bar and the sear. The weapon seemed to shoot accurately. My groups came in rather low, but I suspect that's shooter error. Also, the Speer cases (both Gold Dot and Lawman) came out rather deformed; the American Eagle not noticeably.

imported post

Euromutt wrote:

...
As for the lack of double-strike capability, well, that's a matter of personal preference, but personally, I'm of the school that thinks that if you suffer an FTFi in the middle of "dynamic critical situation," you're better off getting the bad round out of the way rather than trying to fire it again with no guarantee that won't get another FTFi (and another and another and another, until you've spent more time trying to get it to fire than you would have ejecting it).
...

Click to expand...

I'm not so much concerned about double-striking a FTFi as I am the possibility of drawing/attempting to usea de-cocked, aka useless, firearm when your life is in danger. Can that be prevented by proper training and practice? Yes, but the possibility is still there. That is why I always go back to DA/SA, since the weapon can't be rendered useless. The striker always hits when you pull the trigger, period.

As far as re-attempting a FTFi, I try to make it a habit of immediately pulling a second time followed by immediately racking the slide. Same thing we did in the Marine Corps. I'm not gonna sit there and pull over and over waiting for a dud to fire .

imported post

DreQo wrote:

I'm not so much concerned about double-striking a FTFi as I am the possibility of drawing/attempting to usea de-cocked, aka useless, firearm when your life is in danger.

Click to expand...

Ah, I see what you mean. Thing is, though, that the M&P--like the Glock and XD--doesn't have a decocker, and there's no way it can be de-cocked with a round in the chamber. And, of course, if there's no round in the chamber, it's not going to be very useful in a "dynamic critical situation" either.

But if you don't care for "safe-action" pistols, then yeah, the M&P is not for you.

imported post

Euromutt wrote:

DreQo wrote:

I'm not so much concerned about double-striking a FTFi as I am the possibility of drawing/attempting to usea de-cocked, aka useless, firearm when your life is in danger.

Click to expand...

Ah, I see what you mean. Thing is, though, that the M&P--like the Glock and XD--doesn't have a decocker, and there's no way it can be de-cocked with a round in the chamber. And, of course, if there's no round in the chamber, it's not going to be very useful in a "dynamic critical situation" either.

But if you don't care for "safe-action" pistols, then yeah, the M&P is not for you.

Click to expand...

Ah ok. I wasn't sure if they had a decocking lever of some sort. I know some DAO/safe-action models do. My kel-tec is DAO, and like you said there's no way to lay the hammer all the way forward w/o pulling the trigger, which of course cannot be done on a chambered round w/o firing said round. Maybe I just have an irrational fear of the striker/hammer getting stuck in the fully forward position lol.

imported post

Got three of them. Fullsize 45, 40, and 9. OC with the 45. All of them shoot better than I do. All of them fit my hand better than any other guns I've ever tried.

imported post

I was putting my M&P40 through its paces at the range last week, and while I was there I decided to rent an M&P9c, just to see what that's like. I'd expected more kick from a small gun like that, but it was in fact very pleasant to shoot.

imported post

I think the compact 9mm M&Pmay be my next handgun purchase.

imported post

I've put a few hundred rounds through the M&P .40 in Bob's rental case over the last year... I fully plan on buying one soon... Not a single failure or any other problem in my experience...

I am currently carrying a Smith&Wesson Sigma .40V and the M&P is a big improvment over the heavy Sigma trigger pull and is more controllable because of the hand placement... reduced muzzle flip, faster target acquisition... It is also better designed for reholstering...

Some facts:

Smith & Wesson lists at least 4 different version of the gun (in each caliber)

One has a 10 pound (safe? safe for who?) trigger that is dubbed as a law enforcement model... I guess some departments can't trust their officers to not shoot themselves in the foot... Go for the lower weight trigger pull... It's more accurate for the average shooter...

One has a magazine disconnect... My theory is, don't complicate things with crap like this... check and recheck that the gun is unloaded if you want it to be unable to fire... and then still treat it like it is loaded...

Check Smith's website and write down the model number of the one you want so you don't accidentally buy the 10 pounder or the magazine disconnect models...

A nice feature: The M&P will also fit holsters designed for the Glock 20 and 21 so you have an abundance of choices even thought theline isonly a couple of years old...

As far as overall, Glock, XD, or M&P? People love 'em all, they all put bullets on target... For me the XD is too blocky and I really don't like grip safeties... or any safeties, really... Glock, I've shot them well, but I just don't like the feel or the look...

I'll probably get an M&P compact 40 first (since I am looking for aCC gun), and then a full size some time down the road...

As for the M&P 15: Nice gun, especially the one I shot withan Eotech sight mounted on it...

imported post

tapper95 wrote:

One has a magazine disconnect... My theory is, don't complicate things with crap like this... check and recheck that the gun is unloaded if you want it to be unable to fire... and then still treat it like it is loaded...

Click to expand...

That's a valid opinion, if it's appropriate for your particular set of circumstances. I have a two year-old kid, so when the weapon's not under my direct supervision, I want as many things to make the weapon non-functional as possible without actually keeping it disassembled.

It may help to understand how the magazine disconnect and internal lock work on the M&P. There's a little lever that sticks into the magazine well; unless that lever is pushed aside (by a magazine), the trigger bar will be deflected as it moves backward so that it misses the sear, and the gun will not fire. If you have a model with an internal lock, this works by locking the bit that deflects the trigger bar. So you can't have an internal lock without having a magazine disconnect.

Well, I wanted the internal lock, so I had to take the magazine disconnect along with it. It can be a bit inconvenient, but it's worth it to me because of the added measure of security it provides against unauthorized use. But I agree that reliance on magazine disconnects to guard against sloppy handling on your own part is a mug's game.

imported post

asdfha fhwepa n[f2q4 rqugq adfvpajsdvja

Oops... sorry, that was me falling out of my chair and crashing into the keyboard in utter disbelief. If you have to worry about a safety mechanism preventing your 2 year old from discharging your firearm then you have no business owning or keeping a firearm.

I have a 4 year old boy, and he is very interested in tools. He has been taught that a gun is another tool and he already knows that if he ever sees one, he is to "not touch, leave the area, and tell Daddy or Mommy right away". NRA has a video witha character called Eddie Eagle that teaches kids this lesson, and I think they send it out free upon request. Every once in a while I quiz my son and he now repeats it every time.

That said, I would never be so irresponsible to leave it anywhere he could get to it.

There are 3 places that my gun might be. In my hand, in my holster (usually an IWB under my shirt), or in my safe... and I have 3 different safes. One is for longguns, one is for the floorboard of my car in case I have a need to stash it while out and about, and the third is the best of all. It is a Gunvault 2000. Look them up, and if you do not already have one for your handgun, spend the $100 that they cost on eBay... It is designed to be able to quickly open in the dark in case of an intruder because it has four finger grooves with a button at the end of each groove to input your code and unlock it.

imported post

tapper95 wrote:

Oops... sorry, that was me falling out of my chair and crashing into the keyboard in utter disbelief. If you have to worry about a safety mechanism preventing your 2 year old from discharging your firearm then you have no business owning or keeping a firearm.

Click to expand...

Did you notice the bit where I said "as many things as possible"? I don't rely on the internal lock/mag disconnect alone to keep the firearm secure. I do have a quick access lock box for the thing, one of these to be exact; I bought it before I bought the firearm. I also intend to buy a larger safe in due course as I expand my collection, but there are certain considerations why I don't have one yet (including possibly moving house later this year).

Okay, there's something I should have made more clear. The kid's two now, which means that there's no way he's going to be alone in the house with a firearm. Also, he's just not curious about them yet. But my son's not going to be two forever (heck, his birthday was just over two weeks ago and I'm already going "he's two already"), and while I also have a copy of Massad Ayoob's Gun-Proof Your Kids, and I already have the site bookmarked for ordering Eddie Eagle stuff,
I want back-up security measures for when that time comes.

There's another consideration, which is that if some punk were to break in while everyone's out (at some place where you can't carry), said punk might be able to makeoff with the entire lockbox, and crack it open in a safe place, but as long as I keep the keys to the internal lock on me, the weapon is going to be of very limited use to him. Sure, spare S&W keys can be acquired, but I'd like to make the process as difficult as I can.

imported post

tapper95 wrote:

asdfha fhwepa n[f2q4 rqugq adfvpajsdvja

Oops... sorry, that was me falling out of my chair and crashing into the keyboard in utter disbelief.

Click to expand...

:lol::monkey That was funny!

(I have not position on the rest of the post - this part got me LOL though)