Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: the wisdom or foolishness of our actions related to OC

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post


    I have not posted heavily on the board, but I have been an active reader for a little while and I have an issue I would like to bring up for discussion.

    I am aware that open carry is legal in many places in the state of Utah. However, I hink that some members of this community are not acting for the OC communities best interest.

    For example, peoples personal opinions will vary but I would say that OC in schools, some banks, hospitals, etc, may have greater potential to alarm people than OC'ing out in the hills, at a shooting range, in stores that don't protest, or for an extreme example, in your own home. I would like to state that I am not questioning the legality of OC in any situation, or suggesting that the legality should be changed to attempt to suppress OC. I am questioning the wisdom and the responsibility of some who choose to OC in certain situations.

    I have read on this board about an individual that has repeatedly attempted to enter the University Mall while OC'ing, despite being asked by mall security to conceal his gun or leave. The University Mall does not seem to have adequate signs at the entrances to preemptively bar firearms on the premises, however I believe repeatedly trying to go against the guards requests reflects poorly on both the OC and the gun owning community as a whole.

    If the mall or any privately owned business decides to ban OC, or CCW for that matter, that is their right to do so. I respect a private property owners rights even if I don't agree with their decision. If I felt strongly enough I would take my business elsewhere and explain why, rather than repeatedly causing a scene by continuing to go against their wishes.

    Another post that I read on this board is one dealing with OC at state colleges in Utah. Since state run schools are state entities, they do not have the same right to dictate peoples actions that a private entity does. It is allowed to carry a gun onto a public school campus in Utah with a CCP, but I don't think that it is always wise.

    What would happen if someone insisted on OC'ing their gun to the college and got into some confrontation with a teacher, fellow student, administrator, or campus police. What if the story made it into the local media? It would likely not portray the person with the gun in a good light, and the bad media may eventually convince people to vote for anti-gun representatives.

    I will contrast these above negative observations with that of the OC dinners. Before the dinner, the business's where contacted and asked if they would allow us to hold the dinners. The dinners let everyone get together, have a good time, make a political statement, and educate the public. They have been an overwhelmingly positive experience for everyone involved, including the attending media. I have read some of the press coverage about the OC dinners and it seemed largely positive. I would like people that see someone OC to leave the situation feeling like the person was polite, intelligent, and not threatening.

    People in this community that make OC a positive experience for everyone, are assets to our gun rights. Those that are trying to connect OC to other organizations (the minutemen has come up several times on the board), do odd things like make police style badges, carry a gun without presenting themselves professionally, or make decisions without the slightest thought or concern for the community around them, are a liability to the continuation of our rights

    I have read posts about people that chose to OC places and had opportunity to talk to people, and even educate police officers about what they where doing. Those people carried themselves well, and made it in to a positive experience, rather then a negative confrontation.

    I would urge that our community use good judgment and remember that just because we can, does not always mean we always should. I think if we don't act responsibly, courteously, and politely, we may eventually lose our right.


    I would like to hear everyones thoughts on the matter

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/reply.p...80&quote=1

    Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety - or being well perceived by idiots.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Clayton, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    228

    Post imported post

    What makes you an expert on how other adults should exercise their Rights?

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    I am just stating my opinion. just like everyone else is

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    The idea is to OC just like other normal people going about their business in public places. In practice, I have never seen anyone "alarmed," but many do get educated, and are happy to learn about their rights.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Firestone, Colorado
    Posts
    1,189

    Post imported post

    Avoiding OC except in places where people "expect" it defeats the whole purpose of OC, at least for those who can conceal. The point is to:

    1. Provide visible deterrence to would-be bad guys; and
    2. Educate people about their rights; and
    3. Increase the general comfort level with firearms in public places by making it a familiar experience.

    Not OCing in banks, schools, malls, etc. means failing to achieve any of those goals.

    As for your scenario about an OC'er who uses their weapon improperly, the solution is simple and obvious: the community should loudly and publicly condemn their actions, and support the efforts of law enforcement and court officials to apply the maximum penalties allowed by law. I have ZERO tolerance for anyone who chooses to be armed and does not exercise perfect self control in the use of their weapon, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.

    Personally, I don't think that anyone who is openly carrying for the above reasons, and who cares enough about the issues to participate in the "community" is going to create that sort of problem anyway, but if it happens, it happens, and it could very well happen regardless of what anyone on this forum chooses to do, or not do.

    Finally, regarding places that want to disarm us: I think the best approach is simply to refuse to patronize them, and to find ways to help them understand the impact of their decisions.

  7. #7
    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA, , USA
    Posts
    741

    Post imported post

    I suspect that someone who will get into an argument with another on school/campus grounds would do the same thing anywhere else as well. The liberal media will put their anti spin on it regardless of where it occurs and who is at fault. If one is an *******, the place he is, is irrelevant. I would have to agree with a previous post that OCing where it is not expected/normal is the best place to do it and more likely to present an opportunity to educate someone.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Payson, Utah, USA
    Posts
    1,146

    Post imported post

    i must disagree with gmdfunk, entirely

  9. #9
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    , Indiana, USA
    Posts
    1,606

    Post imported post

    While I can see where you may be legitimately concerned with fellow OC'ers who may not use by your definition "good judgement", I can assure you that if we do yield to the wishes of everyone who does not agree with OC, or finds it distasteful, we will lose our right.

    Now, I can agree with you on certain points. If you are asked to leave an establishment and if it legal for such a person to ask you to do so, you should respect their instructions and heed them, take an issue like this up with management, and I would not recommend going back with an openly carried firearm until the situation is rendered.

    However, when you say we should not carry into banks, hospitals and the like, where doing so may be legal, but in poor taste, according to your opening post, I must disagree.

    If I am going into a public area where OC is legal, I usually do so, but on ocassion I will CC for particular reasons, even if OC is legal, and these reasons have nothing to do with the general publics "take" on OC.

    Although first and foremost, we all carry a firearm for a defense, many choose OC as to educate the public, and as a means to exercise their freedoms. Some people may be alarmed that a civilian is openly carrying a firearm, however, after this legal practice is seen time and time again with no negative outcome, they will realize that we are people, just as they are, and responsible firearms owners.

    I can say with complete certainty that there are those who do not contribute to the OC cause as much as others, and those who take away from our efforts, not even on this board, but others as well.

    The only point I can agree with you on is that if asked to leave, and only when a person can legally ask you to do so, their command should be respected and not tested in the forms you stated. I am not commenting on the mall incidents, as I am unfamiliar with Utah laws, but more in a general sense.




  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    OC just like anyone else going about their business.

    I've had numerous positive encounters.I'm convinced the majority of the people in this countryare not afraid of firearms.

    If you bump into someone who disapproves, take the opportunity to educate, if appropriate. Tact and judgement apply. Leave if asked without getting into a heated discussion--we automatically win if we take the highroadand show respect forthe property rights of others even if they won't respectthe right of self-defense.

    I'm also convinced the media, although bad enough, isn't the irresistable force it sometimes seems.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Layton, Utah, USA
    Posts
    275

    Post imported post

    I think some really good things have been brought up in this discussion.

    I personally agree with a few members of the thread here that if we don't oc in places and give in all the time we will lose out right to do so.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum52/7734.html

    On the thread that I just posted the link we were discussing other actions to help us defend our rights. Look at it and see what you think.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •