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Thread: post office

  1. #1
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    I was out tonight and I was talking to a local cop and he told me that you can not carry in a post office because it is a federal building. I do not know if you can or not. I have never seen this discussed before. So if you could let me know if you can or not would be a great help.

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    That's the million dollar question... roughly how much cash you should have saved up if you want to be the first test case in fighting it.

    It's been discussed a couple times before, seeing if there are exceptions to 18 s 930 (d) (3):
    http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/us...0----000-.html

    but... It's a tough one.

    The big question is whether or not self-defense is an "other lawful purpose(s)".
    -Unrequited

  3. #3
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    unrequited wrote:
    That's the million dollar question... roughly how much cash you should have saved up if you want to be the first test case in fighting it.

    It's been discussed a couple times before, seeing if there are exceptions to 18 s 930 (d) (3):
    http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/us...0----000-.html

    but... It's a tough one.

    The big question is whether or not self-defense is an "other lawful purpose(s)".
    it seems clear that carrying legally for self defense is a lawful purpose. But your right. I wouldn't want to be the test case.
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    that is a good point to make.... I don't think i have carried in the post office yet..... but now are you talking carrying alltogether or just open carrying? I am assuming that you are meaning carrying alltogether... and.. I wonder if you are just not allowed to carry INTO the post office. Because I have gone to the post office drive through mailbox a million times before with my piece on me, but I was in my vehicle. I assume you can be on federal property with your weapon as long as it is in your car??



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    disconnect wrote:
    that is a good point to make.... I don't think i have carried in the post office yet..... but now are you talking carrying alltogether or just open carrying? I am assuming that you are meaning carrying alltogether... and.. I wonder if you are just not allowed to carry INTO the post office. Because I have gone to the post office drive through mailbox a million times before with my piece on me, but I was in my vehicle. I assume you can be on federal property with your weapon as long as it is in your car??

    Disconnect, I would not assume anything. The following linkis my post pertaining to this question: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/7601.html. If you like, you can use the letter in it to send to the US Attorney General or the US Postal Inspector (or both) to find out the answer to you question (I am in the process of doing the same). The more letters, the better. Hope this helps!

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    I wouldn't OC in a post office, but I do CC.

    In some states it IS illegal to carry in a post office (specifically prohibitted in the state law)... here in Indiana the state law is silent on post office carry, mening it is not against any state laws.

    Point of notice, the post office is NOT a federal building anymore than your local FedEx is a federal building or company. What about postal police you say? So. FedEx has it's own police department as well- seriously 8 man police force in Georiga.

    The same sign posted at the enterence to every post office lists the "NO GUNS... except....." Read the exemptions, from police to mailing firearms (private citizens cannot mail pistols via USPS) anyway one of the exemptions is "persons authorized by their state to carry a firearm."

    What does the top of our OTCH say? So yes it IS technically legal to carry into a post office. No I do NOT want to be the test case... thats why I cover it up when I go inside.

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    Prometheus wrote:
    I wouldn't OC in a post office, but I do CC.

    In some states it IS illegal to carry in a post office (specifically prohibitted in the state law)... here in Indiana the state law is silent on post office carry, mening it is not against any state laws.

    Point of notice, the post office is NOT a federal building anymore than your local FedEx is a federal building or company. What about postal police you say? So. FedEx has it's own police department as well- seriously 8 man police force in Georiga.

    The same sign posted at the enterence to every post office lists the "NO GUNS... except....." Read the exemptions, from police to mailing firearms (private citizens cannot mail pistols via USPS) anyway one of the exemptions is "persons authorized by their state to carry a firearm."

    What does the top of our OTCH say? So yes it IS technically legal to carry into a post office. No I do NOT want to be the test case... thats why I cover it up when I go inside.
    Prometheus, is it possible that you can show us (me) proof that a United States Post Office is not a Federal Building. I know that FedEx and UPS are not government buildings. Please show us (me) proof. Thanks in advance!!

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    Smurfologist wrote:
    Prometheus wrote:
    I wouldn't OC in a post office, but I do CC.

    In some states it IS illegal to carry in a post office (specifically prohibitted in the state law)... here in Indiana the state law is silent on post office carry, mening it is not against any state laws.

    Point of notice, the post office is NOT a federal building anymore than your local FedEx is a federal building or company. What about postal police you say? So. FedEx has it's own police department as well- seriously 8 man police force in Georiga.

    The same sign posted at the enterence to every post office lists the "NO GUNS... except....." Read the exemptions, from police to mailing firearms (private citizens cannot mail pistols via USPS) anyway one of the exemptions is "persons authorized by their state to carry a firearm."

    What does the top of our OTCH say? So yes it IS technically legal to carry into a post office. No I do NOT want to be the test case... thats why I cover it up when I go inside.
    Prometheus, is it possible that you can show us (me) proof that a United States Post Office is not a Federal Building. I know that FedEx and UPS are not government buildings. Please show us (me) proof. Thanks in advance!!

    2nd Amendment...........Use it...........Or, lose it!!:X
    Better question can you show us where it says the post office is a federal building? Not to be rude but asking that question is like asking can you show me where it says home depot is a federal building... seriously, where, why or how would 'they' publish that it "isn't" something? It makes no sense. Also how do you know that Fedex and UPS aren't federal buildings? Can you show us where it says they are not?

    It's important to distinguish between federal laws that specifically reference the post office and it being a federal building. Airports for example have certain laws that specifically from federal codes/regulations... it certainly doesn't mean they all airports are federal buildings. FYI In case you didn't realize it you CAN carry into the non-sterile area of an airport in Indiana (and many other states like Florida), most people aren't aware of that either.

    Next time I go into the post office I'll look at the sign and get the USPS rules # it cites and post it in it's entirety, there are specific exemptions for LEO's, this that the other and "persons authorized by their state to carry a firearm". Thats anyone in Indiana with a LTCH. Also there are exemptions covering person on official postal business... mailing a letter? buying stamps? That is (by USPS definition) official business.

    If anyone has a picture of the USPS sign where I can read the whole sign please post or link it, it'd save me some time since I don't have specific plans to visit the PO anytime soon.

  9. #9
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    BILLING CODE 8320
    01P

    POSTAL SERVICE

    39 CFR Part 232


    Conduct on Postal Property; Weapons


    Prohibition


    AGENCY
    :
    Postal Service.


    ACTION
    :
    Final rule.


    SUMMARY
    :
    The U.S. Postal Service is


    amending the rules for conduct on


    Postal Service property to clarify the


    prohibition of carrying or storing on


    Postal Service property any firearms or


    other dangerous weapons, or deadly


    weapons or explosives, except for


    official purposes.


    DATES
    :
    Effective March 16, 2007.


    FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT
    :


    Lawrence Katz, Inspector in Charge,


    Office of Counsel, U.S. Postal Inspection


    Service, 202
    2687732.


    SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION
    : The


    amendment to the prohibition of


    carrying, either openly or concealed, or


    storing any firearms, other dangerous or


    deadly weapons or explosives on Postal


    Service property is to clarify the rule,


    ensuring that these items are only


    possessed for official purposes. This


    change would eliminate potential


    conflicts with other laws, rules or


    regulations which may allow the


    possession of these articles for other


    than official purposes.


    List of Subjects in 39 CFR Part 232


    Authority delegations (Government


    agencies), Crime, Federal buildings and


    facilities, Government property, Law


    enforcement officers, Postal Service,


    Security measures.


    In view of the considerations


    discussed above, the Postal Service


    adopts the following amendment to 39


    CFR part 232.


    PART 232
    CONDUCT ON POSTAL


    PROPERTY


    1. The authority citation for part 232


    continues to read as follows:


    Authority:
    18 U.S.C. 13, 3061; 21 U.S.C.


    802, 844; 39 U.S.C. 401, 403(b)(3), 404(a)(7),


    1201(2).


    2. In § 232.1, paragraph (l) is revised


    to read as follows:


    §
    232.1 Conduct on postal property.


    * * * * *


    (l)
    Weapons and explosives.


    Notwithstanding the provisions of any


    other law, rule or regulation, [glow=red]no person


    while on postal property may carry


    firearms, other dangerous or deadly


    weapons, or explosives, either openly or


    concealed, or store the same on postal


    property, except for official purposes.[/glow]


    * * * * *


    Stanley F. Mires,


    Chief Counsel, Legislative.


    [FR Doc. E7
    4803 Filed 31507; 8:45 am]
    BILLING CODE 771012P

    I can find nothing defining "official purposes". I don't think self defense would be considered an official purpose. However, I would thinkgoing into the post office to conduct business would qualify as an official purpose.

    I think I will call the office of Lawrence Katz to see if I can get clarrification.

    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  10. #10
    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
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    Beau wrote:




    BILLING CODE 8320
    01P




    POSTAL SERVICE




    39 CFR Part 232




    Conduct on Postal Property; Weapons




    Prohibition




    AGENCY
    :
    Postal Service.




    ACTION
    :
    Final rule.




    SUMMARY
    :
    The U.S. Postal Service is




    amending the rules for conduct on




    Postal Service property to clarify the




    prohibition of carrying or storing on




    Postal Service property any firearms or




    other dangerous weapons, or deadly




    weapons or explosives, except for




    official purposes.




    DATES
    :
    Effective March 16, 2007.




    FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT
    :




    Lawrence Katz, Inspector in Charge,




    Office of Counsel, U.S. Postal Inspection




    Service, 202
    2687732.




    SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION
    : The




    amendment to the prohibition of




    carrying, either openly or concealed, or




    storing any firearms, other dangerous or




    deadly weapons or explosives on Postal




    Service property is to clarify the rule,




    ensuring that these items are only




    possessed for official purposes. This




    change would eliminate potential




    conflicts with other laws, rules or




    regulations which may allow the




    possession of these articles for other




    than official purposes.




    List of Subjects in 39 CFR Part 232




    Authority delegations (Government




    agencies), Crime, Federal buildings and




    facilities, Government property, Law




    enforcement officers, Postal Service,




    Security measures.




    In view of the considerations




    discussed above, the Postal Service




    adopts the following amendment to 39




    CFR part 232.




    PART 232
    CONDUCT ON POSTAL




    PROPERTY




    1. The authority citation for part 232




    continues to read as follows:




    Authority:
    18 U.S.C. 13, 3061; 21 U.S.C.




    802, 844; 39 U.S.C. 401, 403(b)(3), 404(a)(7),




    1201(2).




    2. In § 232.1, paragraph (l) is revised




    to read as follows:




    §
    232.1 Conduct on postal property.




    * * * * *




    (l)
    Weapons and explosives.




    Notwithstanding the provisions of any




    other law, rule or regulation, [glow=red]no person




    while on postal property may carry




    firearms, other dangerous or deadly




    weapons, or explosives, either openly or




    concealed, or store the same on postal




    property, except for official purposes.[/glow]




    * * * * *




    Stanley F. Mires,




    Chief Counsel, Legislative.




    [FR Doc. E7
    4803 Filed 31507; 8:45 am]


    BILLING CODE 7710
    12P

    I can find nothing defining "official purposes". I don't think self defense would be considered an official purpose. However, I would thinkgoing into the post office to conduct business would qualify as an official purpose.

    I think I will call the office of Lawrence Katz to see if I can get clarrification.

    Beau, this helps tremendously. As you can see from my (and Lockman) previous post, I have been trying to get to the bottom of this. Please keep all of us informed of what you find out.

    2nd Amendment..........Use it...........Or, lose it!!:X

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    Prometheus wrote:
    Smurfologist wrote:
    Prometheus wrote:
    I wouldn't OC in a post office, but I do CC.

    In some states it IS illegal to carry in a post office (specifically prohibitted in the state law)... here in Indiana the state law is silent on post office carry, mening it is not against any state laws.

    Point of notice, the post office is NOT a federal building anymore than your local FedEx is a federal building or company. What about postal police you say? So. FedEx has it's own police department as well- seriously 8 man police force in Georiga.

    The same sign posted at the enterence to every post office lists the "NO GUNS... except....." Read the exemptions, from police to mailing firearms (private citizens cannot mail pistols via USPS) anyway one of the exemptions is "persons authorized by their state to carry a firearm."

    What does the top of our OTCH say? So yes it IS technically legal to carry into a post office. No I do NOT want to be the test case... thats why I cover it up when I go inside.
    Prometheus, is it possible that you can show us (me) proof that a United States Post Office is not a Federal Building. I know that FedEx and UPS are not government buildings. Please show us (me) proof. Thanks in advance!!

    2nd Amendment...........Use it...........Or, lose it!!:X
    Better question can you show us where it says the post office is a federal building? Not to be rude but asking that question is like asking can you show me where it says home depot is a federal building... seriously, where, why or how would 'they' publish that it "isn't" something? It makes no sense. Also how do you know that Fedex and UPS aren't federal buildings? Can you show us where it says they are not? - Sounds like you are not sure whether the United States Post Office is or is not a federal building to me.

    It's important to distinguish between federal laws that specifically reference the post office and it being a federal building. Airports for example have certain laws that specifically from federal codes/regulations... it certainly doesn't mean they all airports are federal buildings. FYI In case you didn't realize it you CAN carry into the non-sterile area of an airport in Indiana (and many other states like Florida), most people aren't aware of that either. - I knew about the Airports; I don't know about the United States Post Office.......hence, my many post (no pun intended)!!

    Next time I go into the post office I'll look at the sign and get the USPS rules # it cites and post it in it's entirety, there are specific exemptions for LEO's, this that the other and "persons authorized by their state to carry a firearm". Thats anyone in Indiana with a LTCH. Also there are exemptions covering person on official postal business... mailing a letter? buying stamps? That is (by USPS definition) official business. - I would not be so sure about all of this unless there is a precident of some sort.

    If anyone has a picture of the USPS sign where I can read the whole sign please post or link it, it'd save me some time since I don't have specific plans to visit the PO anytime soon.
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    HMDGLOCK wrote:
    I was out tonight and I was talking to a local cop and he told me that you can not carry in a post office because it is a federal building. I do not know if you can or not. I have never seen this discussed before. So if you could let me know if you can or not would be a great help.

    You may want to checkout (GlockTalk) there has been alot of input this last month or so about post office carry. I will try to locate a link.

    http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=816543


    This is the only one I could find for now. There are more links about USPS, but I was not able to use the search engine.

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    Smurfologist wrote:
    disconnect wrote:
    that is a good point to make.... I don't think i have carried in the post office yet..... but now are you talking carrying alltogether or just open carrying? I am assuming that you are meaning carrying alltogether... and.. I wonder if you are just not allowed to carry INTO the post office. Because I have gone to the post office drive through mailbox a million times before with my piece on me, but I was in my vehicle. I assume you can be on federal property with your weapon as long as it is in your car??

    Disconnect, I would not assume anything. The following linkis my post pertaining to this question: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/7601.html. If you like, you can use the letter in it to send to the US Attorney General or the US Postal Inspector (or both) to find out the answer to you question (I am in the process of doing the same). The more letters, the better. Hope this helps!

    2nd Amendment..........Use it............Or, lose it!!:X
    What you assume and what THEY assume may be very different.

    I had a small auto that I needed to send back to the factory for warranty work. I called the main post office to see if I could send it via the mail. I was referred to the BATF. They told me that I could send it via the mail as long as it was not assembled.

    I called my local post office and told them what the BATF said and they said to come on down. I did and when I got there the agent would not allow me to send my package because even though it was in pieces it was still a whole gun. I put the pieces into two small packages, each containing half of the gun,. I thought this would work until the Post Master came out and got into the discussion and he told me that I couldn't even send the parts and that I had broken the law even bringing the disassembled gun into the post office.

    Long short, I did not send my gun back via the post office, and they made it clear that they think it is against the law.



    Tarzan

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    tarzan1888 wrote:
    Smurfologist wrote:
    disconnect wrote:
    that is a good point to make.... I don't think i have carried in the post office yet..... but now are you talking carrying alltogether or just open carrying? I am assuming that you are meaning carrying alltogether... and.. I wonder if you are just not allowed to carry INTO the post office. Because I have gone to the post office drive through mailbox a million times before with my piece on me, but I was in my vehicle. I assume you can be on federal property with your weapon as long as it is in your car??

    Disconnect, I would not assume anything. The following linkis my post pertaining to this question: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/7601.html. If you like, you can use the letter in it to send to the US Attorney General or the US Postal Inspector (or both) to find out the answer to you question (I am in the process of doing the same). The more letters, the better. Hope this helps!

    2nd Amendment..........Use it............Or, lose it!!:X
    What you assume and what THEY assume may be very different.

    I had a small auto that I needed to send back to the factory for warranty work. I called the main post office to see if I could send it via the mail. I was referred to the BATF. They told me that I could send it via the mail as long as it was not assembled.

    I called my local post office and told them what the BATF said and they said to come on down. I did and when I got there the agent would not allow me to send my package because even though it was in pieces it was still a whole gun. I put the pieces into two small packages, each containing half of the gun,. I thought this would work until the Post Master came out and got into the discussion and he told me that I couldn't even send the parts and that I had broken the law even bringing the disassembled gun into the post office.

    Long short, I did not send my gun back via the post office, and they made it clear that they think it is against the law.



    Tarzan
    Tarzan, do yo have an FFL?!? Why did you not use FedEx or UPS (just curious)?!?

    I have posted on this site before that about 2 years ago I asked the question of being able to OC or CC in a USPO in Chantilly. The manager told me that everyone knows that you can't carry a gun in a USPO. When I pointed out that there was a conflict with Title 18, Section 930 and 39 CFR Part 232, he became agitated when he told me that I could not bring a gun in a USPO because he said so!!! That prompted me to get to the bottom of this (with the help of Lockman).

    I wish I can find my first set of post on this thread (I've tried). I hate the fact that (so far) I can't get an opinion from anyone (US Attorney General or Chief Postal Inspector) about this. I wonder why that is?!?

    2nd Amendment..........Use it...........Or, lose it!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    Smurfologist wrote:
    Tarzan, do yo have an FFL?!? Why did you not use FedEx or UPS (just curious)?!?




    No I do not. I left the Post Office and shipped my gun UPS. That was the first time I have ever shipped a gun back for warranty work, but now I know.



    Smurfologist wrote:
    I have posted on this site before that about 2 years ago I asked the question of being able to OC or CC in a USPO in Chantilly. The manager told me that everyone knows that you can't carry a gun in a USPO. When I pointed out that there was a conflict with Title 18, Section 930 and 39 CFR Part 232, he became agitated when he told me that I could not bring a gun in a USPO because he said so!!! That prompted me to get to the bottom of this (with the help of Lockman).

    I wish I can find my first set of post on this thread (I've tried). I hate the fact that (so far) I can't get an opinion from anyone (US Attorney General or Chief Postal Inspector) about this. I wonder why that is?!?


    That is funny as that is almost the exact same attitude the Post Master I talked to had.



    It is legal to ship gun parts, which is what I tried to do, by putting the parts of my gun into two packages, but since I stood up to him and was firm, and he knew that the two packages totaled a whole gun,he would not let ME ship parts throughHIS Post Office.

    I guess my first mistake was to try and do it the right way and ask. If I had just sent the package nothing would have been said.

    UPS is easy and I do my best to stay out of the Post Office.



    Tarzan

  16. #16
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    tarzan1888 wrote:
    Smurfologist wrote:
    Tarzan, do yo have an FFL?!? Why did you not use FedEx or UPS (just curious)?!?




    No I do not. I left the Post Office and shipped my gun UPS. That was the first time I have ever shipped a gun back for warranty work, but now I know.



    Smurfologist wrote:
    I have posted on this site before that about 2 years ago I asked the question of being able to OC or CC in a USPO in Chantilly. The manager told me that everyone knows that you can't carry a gun in a USPO. When I pointed out that there was a conflict with Title 18, Section 930 and 39 CFR Part 232, he became agitated when he told me that I could not bring a gun in a USPO because he said so!!! That prompted me to get to the bottom of this (with the help of Lockman).

    I wish I can find my first set of post on this thread (I've tried). I hate the fact that (so far) I can't get an opinion from anyone (US Attorney General or Chief Postal Inspector) about this. I wonder why that is?!?


    That is funny as that is almost the exact same attitude the Post Master I talked to had.



    It is legal to ship gun parts, which is what I tried to do, by putting the parts of my gun into two packages, but since I stood up to him and was firm, and he knew that the two packages totaled a whole gun,he would not let ME ship parts throughHIS Post Office.

    I guess my first mistake was to try and do it the right way and ask. If I had just sent the package nothing would have been said.

    UPS is easy and I do my best to stay out of the Post Office.



    Tarzan
    Thanks Tarzan. I just had to know. I just want to know (for everyone) what is right because I am in a state (like Prometheus) where you can OC and CC (not familiar with IN state gun laws). Hopefully, I will hear back from someone really soon. Take care.

    2nd Amendment..........Use it.............Or, lose it!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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