Off-Duty Cop Ambushed in VA?

ScottNH · Jan 29, 2008

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VA friends,

There's a discussion on open-carry in VT and NH on-going over at Northeast Shooters Forum (which is more often really the " Massachusetts Shooters Forum," but I digress). The usual nay-sayer arguments are present ("scare the people, they'll change the laws, SWAT team, set our cause back, targeted by every criminal, etc"), and then, when one posted asked for proof of the "targeted by criminals" argument, this was posted:

Down in Virginia a while back, an off-duty officer in plainclothes was wearing his gun openly. Some robbers came into the grocery store I think it was, saw him immediately and made him surrender his weapon, then proceeded to rob the store blind.

I've been following OCDO since it's inception, and I sure don't recall anything like this, albeit the original post is remarkably devoid of any facts. Internet fairy tale?

FWIW, the thread is mildly amusing, and is located here: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30227

eyesopened · Jan 29, 2008

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I haven't read through the whole topic, but this comment is hilarious:

This is a very, very bad idea. Not to mention that open carry itself is only marginally better than not carrying.

:banghead:

Pa. Patriot · Jan 29, 2008

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If they do not post a link to some sort of source of this story (news story) them it must be assumed to be just that, an internet story, not fact.

unrequited · Jan 29, 2008

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Open carry is "bad" if you're the only person doing it, in the world. Once that number starts to be 2, or 3, or one-thousand, or ten-thousand, it's as situationally "secure" as CC. Fast forward to today where VA has more than 135,000 (quick google which is probably wrong), and OC'ers aren't just the "first target" anymore, because you can't be sure who's OC/CC'ing around the next aisle (in a store).

That's my opinion at least.

ScottNH · Jan 29, 2008

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Pa. Patriot wrote:

If they do not post a link to some sort of source of this story (news story) them it must be assumed to be just that, an internet story, not fact.

I agree completely. Anything this devoid of facts just screams hoax/urban legend/bullsh...well you get the idea. Thought I should at least do my due diligence and ask here. Surely, if this had happened, the collective here would have details.

bohdi · Jan 29, 2008

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Anytime I hear "a while back" my bullshit detector starts screaming......this is one reason we ask people to back things up with cites and references when they say it as this board is monitored/watched by people who may not necissarily be pro 2A. If it wasn't documented in the media - and who ever made that statement on that board can't say it wouldn't have as sensational as an event like that would be - and it can't be FOIA'd, it probably didn't happen.

Just my $0.02

ChinChin · Jan 29, 2008

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The only incident I recall which is remotley related is this:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=395&forum_id=4&highlight=centreville

However, it was not an officer. It was some random guy with no situational awareness AT ALL.

Citizen · Jan 29, 2008

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Maybe try this argument on the CC-only crowd:

My chances of needing a firearm for self-defense in public are low in the first place. The chances of a gun-grab even lower.

The chances that I'll improve publicattitudes towards2A and win converts to 2A activism are daily to weekly.

ghostrider · Jan 29, 2008

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I've wondered about this also. there was a thread on THR in December where someone referenced a supposed thread on OCDO

"about a guy in VA who was OC'ing and was ambushed from behind by two BG's, one of whom took his gun."

Nevedr did find that thread untill now.

sjhipple · Jan 29, 2008

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I have no idea why anyone would carry without a Serpa retention holster. It solves this problem.

If anything, it'll save you from having a long conversation about retention.

"What if someone takes it off you"

"I have a retention holster that locks, but doesn't slow down my draw time"

"oh"

Neplusultra · Jan 29, 2008

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ama-gi wrote:

I have no idea why anyone would carry without a Serpa retention holster. It solves this problem.

If anything, it'll save you from having a long conversation about retention.

"What if someone takes it off you"

"I have a retention holster that locks, but doesn't slow down my draw time"

"oh"

Yea, but still it only takes so long for someone to figure out how to unholster the gun. As is said in another thread you need a quick back up gun that you can grab one-handed with your weak hand while your strong hand is retaining your gun in it's holster.

sjhipple · Jan 29, 2008

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Neplusultra wrote:

ama-gi wrote:

I have no idea why anyone would carry without a Serpa retention holster. It solves this problem.

If anything, it'll save you from having a long conversation about retention.

"What if someone takes it off you"

"I have a retention holster that locks, but doesn't slow down my draw time"

"oh"

Click to expand...

Yea, but still it only takes so long for someone to figure out how to unholster the gun. As is said in another thread you need a quick back up gun that you can grab one-handed with your weak hand while your strong hand is retaining your gun in it's holster.

I agree, but if you're not expecting a locking holster, a person trying to take it won't be able to and you'll have time to react. If they do try to take it expecting the locking mechanism, it'll be clumsy and you'll probably be able to realize what they're doing in time.

Marco · Jan 30, 2008

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my bullshit detector starts screaming......

Agreed!!!!
Without a cite or link to a credible/verifiable source.

Two myths in one, OC'er targeted by criminals prior to a bad act and gun grab(stolen).
[line]
A Security/locking holster is nice and might buy you sometime but not always the case.
Your ASSUMING the other person has no knowlegde of how it works.

In the OP's story a security holster probably wouldn't have done the person any good since his attackers had the drop (assumption mine) on him.

In jest, I successfully disarmed someone (he didn't know it was coming)on this forum (name with held to protect the innocent).The gun (unloaded) wasn't removed from the holster (BH CQC w/serpa)but could have been,I don't own or use a CQC but do know how they work.
I'll continue to rely on my situational awareness rather than a holster, it has worked thus far.

Edit:
detail I forgot

vtme_grad98 · Jan 30, 2008

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Neplusultra wrote:

ama-gi wrote:

I have no idea why anyone would carry without a Serpa retention holster. It solves this problem.

If anything, it'll save you from having a long conversation about retention.

"What if someone takes it off you"

"I have a retention holster that locks, but doesn't slow down my draw time"

"oh"

Click to expand...

Yea, but still it only takes so long for someone to figure out how to unholster the gun. As is said in another thread you need a quick back up gun that you can grab one-handed with your weak hand while your strong hand is retaining your gun in it's holster.

Actually, if they're that close, you'd be better off with a good knife, such as this one, to fend them off. This particular knife was designed specifically to be an offhand knife for law enforcement to fend off someone trying to take their firearm. The angle is well suited for slashing and stabbing with a punching motion, and is also well suited for cutting the ever living hell out of the arm they're using to grab your firearm.

Neplusultra · Jan 30, 2008

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vtme_grad98 wrote:

Neplusultra wrote:

ama-gi wrote:

I have no idea why anyone would carry without a Serpa retention holster. It solves this problem.

If anything, it'll save you from having a long conversation about retention.

"What if someone takes it off you"

"I have a retention holster that locks, but doesn't slow down my draw time"

"oh"

Click to expand...

Yea, but still it only takes so long for someone to figure out how to unholster the gun. As is said in another thread you need a quick back up gun that you can grab one-handed with your weak hand while your strong hand is retaining your gun in it's holster.

Click to expand...

Actually, if they're that close, you'd be better off with a good knife, such as this one, to fend them off. This particular knife was designed specifically to be an offhand knife for law enforcement to fend off someone trying to take their firearm. The angle is well suited for slashing and stabbing with a punching motion, and is also well suited for cutting the ever living hell out of the arm they're using to grab your firearm.

That would be useful. What kind of sheath comes with it? I think it would fit very well as an IWB, you'd just slide your weak thumb behind it to draw it out....

kimbercarrier · Jan 30, 2008

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Maybe this is what they are talking about. Late last year there was an off duty cop walking with an off duty repoorter that where robbed in Norfolk. Here's the story.

The search is on for two gunmen who mugged two men in Norfolk, including an off-duty cop.
It's 1 a.m., Wednesday, in the heart of Ghent.
Reporter Patrick Terpstra from WVEC was walking with Kevin Lokey, an off-duty Virginia Beach Police officer. Two muggers materialize from the darkness with guns.
And now word of the attack is spreading in the Ghent community.
Those robbers made the reporter and the cop get down on the ground. They stole their money, a cell phone, and even the officer's gun!
If robbers can hit an armed cop, what chance do the rest of us have?
That's what people were talking about in Ghent on Thursday. Most people don't think twice about walking through Ghent, or working here for that matter.
"Many timesI walk home at night, I don't really have anybody bother or harass me or anything."
Teresa Moten says she feels pretty safe working here. But hearing that someone robbed an off-duty police officer right across the street from her job worries her.
"That could have happened to anybody, it didn't have to be a cop, it could be anybody," Moten said.
"We hadn't had any violent crimes around here," Berry Willis said.
Berry Willis has lived in the neighborhood for more than 40 years.
"To think that such an act occurred just two blocks from where we lived," he said.
"At one o'clock in the morning, there are a lot of street lights out there, but there are a lot of trees out there that cast shadows," Chris Amos said.
And that's why Chris Amos with the Norfolk Police Department says everyone should be aware of their surroundings at night.
"Stay out where you can be seen, along sidewalks, where cars travel," Amos said.
The police officer himself was carrying a gun, but he was still mugged. So what should you do if you find yourself staring down the barrel of a gun?
"If somebody has that much of an advantage over you, you need to comply with their demands, live and make a good witness," Amos said.
It's an experience willis has never had, but just to be safe, there's one thing he always does when he comes home at night.
"I look around, all around to make sure no individuals are around," Willis said.
Since the officer's off-duty gun was stolen, the gun's serial number was entered into the National Crime Information Center database and the Virginia Criminal Information Network so police can track it.
If you have any information that could help police, call the Norfolk Crimeline, 1-888-Lock-u-Up.

roscoe13 · Jan 30, 2008

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Hmmm.... Off duty cop with an off duty reporter. Makes me wonder if it was even real...

Neplusultra · Jan 30, 2008

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kimbercarrier wrote:

Maybe this is what they are talking about. Late last year there was an off duty cop walking with an off duty repoorter that where robbed in Norfolk. Here's the story.

The search is on for two gunmen who mugged two men in Norfolk, including an off-duty cop.

Where'd you find this?

kimbercarrier · Jan 31, 2008

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[size="-1"][/size]This is where I found it. I remember reading this and seeing it on the news. This happend Sept 30, 2007

[size="-1"]www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=7139496 - 57k[/size]

[size="-1"] [/size]

VAopencarry · Jan 31, 2008

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WTF is an off duty reporter?

Off-Duty Cop Ambushed in VA?

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