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Thread: Sens. Lautenberg & Reed introduce massive federal assault on gun shows and private sales!

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    Tried to get in good points - I missed opportunity to say the problem at Tech was victim disarmament zones - it is very easy to focus on the logical and technical aspects ofgun bills - but the anti-gun hobby horse riders are just riding as fast as it will go and the reporters keep bringing story back to Tech shootings.

    Somebody try to get video if they play me in case they don't hang the video at http://www.wusa9.com

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    Mike wrote:
    ...the reporters keep bringing story back to Tech shootings.
    Were you able to get in anything pointing out that the gun show bills have no relevance to Tech?

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    Mike, tried the link, goes to Peggy's bio page.....

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    I have it and will post to Youtube later tonight, like 8PM or so.

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    It's sad that they keep using the VT tradgedy to springboard this legislation, especially since Cho did not get his weapons from gun show. People are working with their hearts and not their heads...

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    eyesopened wrote:
    It's sad that they keep using the VT tradgedy to springboard this legislation, especially since Cho did not get his weapons from gun show. People are working with their hearts and not their heads...
    For myself, I consider these people are not sincere. There is far too much information easily available about the benefits of arms for it to have been missed by thepeople at the top of the gun-control advocacy game who've beendoing this for years. The ones at the top know full well what they are doing. They know Cho didn't get his weapon at a gunshow. They're just using it.

    This is the very demagoguery that the Bill of Rights and the two-house federal legislature wasmeant to protect against. We just need totake advantage of the structure to make sure the demagogues areunsuccessful.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    eyesopened wrote:
    It's sad that they keep using the VT tradgedy to springboard this legislation, especially since Cho did not get his weapons from gun show. People are working with their hearts and not their heads...
    And this is the problem: many people tend to make decisions based upon emotions influenced by some logic, rather than logic influenced by emotions. By the word "some" I mean anywhere from "almost none" to "a good bit."

    We argue facts and figures; antis appeal to the emotions. They keep winning over time...they just hammer us in the MSM with appeal after appeal to emotion. At some point, their ideas become emotionally true.

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    Thank you Mike, and NSL for the post.

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    Good clip, Mike.

    I find it so ironic that they are parading VT people on the TV over wanting background checks at gun shows.
    Cho bought his guns at a gun store and passed a background check...

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    Thats the first time I've ever heard that the Columbine shooters got there guns from a gun show. Can someone fill me in with a link to that one?

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    638Fitta wrote:
    Thats the first time I've ever heard that the Columbine shooters got there guns from a gun show. Can someone fill me in with a link to that one?
    638, you do know how Google works, right?

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    Google?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    638Fitta wrote:
    Thats the first time I've ever heard that the Columbine shooters got there guns from a gun show. Can someone fill me in with a link to that one?
    The news video was incorrect. Harris and Klebold did not get their guns from a gunshow. They had some other guy (who was arrested and charged for the straw purchases) buy the guns at a show and later sold them to the two kids.

    Harris and Klebold got their guns illegally, not from a gun dealer, not from a gunshow, and not through a legal private sale.

    They broke the law, plain and simple.

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    Re: Emotional arguments, fight back with our own emotional arguments! Let's get weepy eyed describing a cold and unfeeling University administration who disarmed students, thereby leading to the tragedy called Virginia Tech! Let's scream, "Larry Hincker, you said the students would be safe by banning guns from campus! All you did was make the killer's job easier! No Guns! No Peace! No Guns for Citizens = Dead Citizens! Shame on Virginia Tech for creating a killing zone!

    Maybe someone can create some pithy slogans. Here's one stolenand modified from http://www.a-human-right.com/guncontrol.html

    Q: What does Larry Hinker (VT Spokesman) have in common with Rapists and Muggers?

    A: Rapists and muggers prefer unarmed victims.

    Ture or False: Do Banks protect their money better than we Protect Students?

    Let Teachers Conceal Carry!

    Gov. Kaine says either you want felons tohave guns or you don't. (Of course we are not in favor of felons owning guns.)

    So let's say to Governor Kaine, either you are for or against helpless victims unable to defend themselves. Close the College Campus Gun-Free Zone Loophole!

    FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE, PEOPLE!

    As for the Gun Show Loophole, Let's All Face Facts, Felons Are Banned from Owning Guns! So the minute felons buy a gun at a gun show, the buyer can be and should beprosecuted. Ifpeople want to blame the seller, they should also go after sellers of cars, knives, baseball bats who sell to felons.

    And my Privacy Rights trump the government's interest in knowing from whom I (a non-felon) buy a gun.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    nova wrote:
    638Fitta wrote:
    Thats the first time I've ever heard that the Columbine shooters got there guns from a gun show. Can someone fill me in with a link to that one?
    The news video was incorrect. Harris and Klebold did not get their guns from a gunshow. They had some other guy (who was arrested and charged for the straw purchases) buy the guns at a show and later sold them to the two kids.

    Harris and Klebold got their guns illegally, not from a gun dealer, not from a gunshow, and not through a legal private sale.

    They broke the law, plain and simple.
    I thought it was the girlfriend (18 yrs old) of one of those two who bought the guns legally.

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    XD Owner wrote:
    Re: Emotional arguments, fight back with our own emotional arguments! Let's get weepy eyed describing a cold and unfeeling University administration who disarmed students, thereby leading to the tragedy called Virginia Tech! Let's scream, "Larry Hincker, you said the students would be safe by banning guns from campus! All you did was make the killer's job easier! No Guns! No Peace! No Guns for Citizens = Dead Citizens! Shame on Virginia Tech for creating a killing zone!

    Maybe someone can create some pithy slogans. Here's one stolenand modified from http://www.a-human-right.com/guncontrol.html

    Q: What does Larry Hinker (VT Spokesman) have in common with Rapists and Muggers?

    A: Rapists and muggers prefer unarmed victims.

    Ture or False: Do Banks protect their money better than we Protect Students?

    Let Teachers Conceal Carry!

    Gov. Kaine says either you want felons tohave guns or you don't. (Of course we are not in favor of felons owning guns.)

    So let's say to Governor Kaine, either you are for or against helpless victims unable to defend themselves. Close the College Campus Gun-Free Zone Loophole!

    FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE, PEOPLE!

    As for the Gun Show Loophole, Let's All Face Facts, Felons Are Banned from Owning Guns! So the minute felons buy a gun at a gun show, the buyer can be and should beprosecuted. Ifpeople want to blame the seller, they should also go after sellers of cars, knives, baseball bats who sell to felons.

    And my Privacy Rights trump the government's interest in knowing from whom I (a non-felon) buy a gun.
    XD Owner has hit on some valuable considerations here.

    You CAN NOT fight emotion with logic, nor logic with emotion. If you want your message heard by some significant percentage of the population, you must use both, and not necessarily always together.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    glocknroll wrote:
    Harris and Klebold got their guns illegally, not from a gun dealer, not from a gunshow, and not through a legal private sale.
    I thought it was the girlfriend (18 yrs old) of one of those two who bought the guns legally.
    The girlfriend (Robyn Anderson) bought them two shotguns and a rifle at a gun show. Mark Manes sold them the Tec-9. Anderson's purchases were legal, and it was legal for her to give them to Harris and Klebold, unless Harris and Klebold paid her for them (I don't think that's clear). The pistol from Manes was an illegal sale.

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    swillden wrote:
    glocknroll wrote:
    Harris and Klebold got their guns illegally, not from a gun dealer, not from a gunshow, and not through a legal private sale.
    I thought it was the girlfriend (18 yrs old) of one of those two who bought the guns legally.
    The girlfriend (Robyn Anderson) bought them two shotguns and a rifle at a gun show. Mark Manes sold them the Tec-9. Anderson's purchases were legal, and it was legal for her to give them to Harris and Klebold, unless Harris and Klebold paid her for them (I don't think that's clear). The pistol from Manes was an illegal sale.
    Thanks for the clarification.

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    Tess wrote:
    XD Owner wrote:
    Re: Emotional arguments, fight back with our own emotional arguments! Let's get weepy eyed describing a cold and unfeeling University administration who disarmed students, thereby leading to the tragedy called Virginia Tech! Let's scream, "Larry Hincker, you said the students would be safe by banning guns from campus! All you did was make the killer's job easier! No Guns! No Peace! No Guns for Citizens = Dead Citizens! Shame on Virginia Tech for creating a killing zone!

    Maybe someone can create some pithy slogans. Here's one stolenand modified from http://www.a-human-right.com/guncontrol.html

    Q: What does Larry Hinker (VT Spokesman) have in common with Rapists and Muggers?

    A: Rapists and muggers prefer unarmed victims.

    Ture or False: Do Banks protect their money better than we Protect Students?

    Let Teachers Conceal Carry!

    Gov. Kaine says either you want felons tohave guns or you don't. (Of course we are not in favor of felons owning guns.)

    So let's say to Governor Kaine, either you are for or against helpless victims unable to defend themselves. Close the College Campus Gun-Free Zone Loophole!

    FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE, PEOPLE!

    As for the Gun Show Loophole, Let's All Face Facts, Felons Are Banned from Owning Guns! So the minute felons buy a gun at a gun show, the buyer can be and should beprosecuted. Ifpeople want to blame the seller, they should also go after sellers of cars, knives, baseball bats who sell to felons.

    And my Privacy Rights trump the government's interest in knowing from whom I (a non-felon) buy a gun.
    XD Owner has hit on some valuable considerations here.

    You CAN NOT fight emotion with logic, nor logic with emotion. If you want your message heard by some significant percentage of the population, you must use both, and not necessarily always together.
    +1
    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  22. #22
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    For reference and action
    Notice which Democrat senators don't dare put their names on this right now?



    S.2577

    Title: A bill to establish background check procedures for gun shows.
    Sponsor: Sen Lautenberg, Frank R. [NJ] (introduced 1/30/2008) Cosponsors (10)
    Latest Major Action: 1/30/2008 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.[line] by date)
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Reading the text of the bill, I really think that if this passes, gun shows will be a thing of the past. It's not as simple as having people sell guns through a dealer to have a check done. It requires:



    `(a) Registration of Gun Show Promoters- It shall be unlawful for any person to organize, plan, promote, or operate a gun show unless that person--

    • `(1) registers with the Attorney General in accordance with regulations promulgated by the Attorney General; and

      `(2) pays a registration fee, in an amount determined by the Attorney General.

    `(b) Responsibilities of Gun Show Promoters- It shall be unlawful for any person to organize, plan, promote, or operate a gun show unless that person--

    • `(1) before commencement of the gun show, verifies the identity of each gun show vendor participating in the gun show by examining a valid identification document (as defined in section 1028(d)(3)) of the vendor containing a photograph of the vendor;

      `(2) before commencement of the gun show, requires each gun show vendor to sign--

      • `(A) a ledger with identifying information concerning the vendor; and

        `(B) a notice advising the vendor of the obligations of the vendor under this chapter;

      `(3) notifies each person who attends the gun show of the requirements of this chapter, in accordance with such regulations as the Attorney General shall prescribe; and

      `(4) maintains a copy of the records described in paragraphs (1) and (2) at the permanent place of business of the gun show promoter for such period of time and in such form as the Attorney General shall require by regulation.

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