Bad OC experience - I need advice

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Hello, everyone:

I had a bad experience last night and would love to hear everyone's opinion as to what I could do about it.

I went to the Kroger on Ponce de Leon with my wife to pick up some snacks on the way home and I accidentally walked in with my fanny pack unzipped and my handgun was partially visible. I always carry concealed, but if I'm carrying in a fanny pack I like to open it while I drive so I can have better access to the weapon. Well, last night I forgot to zip it back up and walked in like that.
On our way to the register, the police officer that works at the store confronted me, and was extremely condescending. He asked to see my license and when I showed it to him, he laughed and said that I wasn't allowed to carry in the store. After a short and rude speech about how it was for my own good, he asked us to leave and to never walk in there with a gun again.

I normally would simply never go back to the store but the problem is that it's the store that's next to our house and we go there ALL THE TIME. That's were we get our groceries and I'm not about to walk around that neighborhood (especially at night) unarmed and putting my wife at risk because that cop felt threatened by me and felt like enforcing his "power".

I'm highly upset about this; I feel that our rights were violated and we were both disrespected - especially because that cop sees us there all the time and knows that we are regular patrons. We are both active members of 2nd amendment organizations and contribute every month. We would like to make a stance for our rights. What is the best way to go about doing this?

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Firstly, what does the law in Georgia say? Is there a state (or local) law that might forbit you from carrying into that store?

Secondly, assuming that there are no specific laws to prevent you from carrying into that store, what is the store's policy with concealed and open carry?

If you were not in violation of any state or local laws and teh store has no stated policy, then the officer was acting on his own accord in which case, you can ignore his suggestions and do as you would normally.

I'm not a lawyer, so you might want to verify the above before you do it.

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It's your turf. Read up on the law, brush up on your skillsand you'll have confidence. Don't let a low paid civil servant stress you out. Make it a habit to check yourconcealment.

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I would call the store manager and discuss the incident with him. I don't know that the officer himself has the authority to ban you from the property. However, if the management concurs, you could be charged with trespass if you return. Even if your firearm is concealed, the officer may question you and attempt to illegally search you to confirm if you have a firearm in your posession.

Depending on the store manager's response, you may wish to contact someone higher up the corporate ladder as well.

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nephilim wrote:

I always carry concealed, but if I'm carrying in a fanny pack I like to open it while I drive so I can have better access to the weapon.

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I fail to see the logic. You need better (faster?) access when you're locked into a climate controlled steel and glass pod than you do when just walking around outside? Are you picking up hitchhikers?

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I am not a lawyer.

I checked the Georgia laws and found that you can carry openly if you have a license.

You can carry into an establishment that does not sell liquor to be consumed on the premises.

I did not find the statutes on signage and you need to determine if the store has a published policy on the matter.

If you are legal, and I think you are, then only store policy is in question.

An officer does not have the right to search you, just because he wants to.



You might try going in with your fanny pack full of everything but a gun and make sure he sees you and then see what he does.

Let him search your pack,if he demands to, but tell him it is over your objection. Have your wiferecord the incident for future use. When he finds nothing, demand an apology and take it to the store manager.

Put him on the defensive. If you do this and he takes the bait, he will never dare harass you again.


Ornot.


Tarzan

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A fanny pack is a dead give away that you are carrying a firearm. If a cop spots one he will assume you are carrying, thus I would probably get a smart carry and conceal if you really feel that it is necessary to carry in that store.First Iwould go in and talk with the general manager during the day and ask him why this occurred. Show him your license to carry and tell him how long you have been shopping there. Make it obvious that you hate to travel out of town to buy groceries (as youhave been shopping there for years)but will if Kroger is going to discriminate against people that have been authorized by the State to carry a firearm, you will.

If it is a store policy (which I doubt)you have no right to exert. Kroger has private property rights. I wouldn't defy the management, but if they say it's OK to carrythen I would ignore the cop. I would be willing to bet the cop was just throwing his weight around. The way he language it, leads me to believe that is the case. "Its for your own good", get real. That sounds like the kind of crap that the government says every time they trample the constitution. "It' s for the collective good of everyone".:cuss:Recently an officer actually told me that Supreme Court Rulings are not binding on the State of North Carolina because of State Rights. When I told him he was mistaken he wanted to argue his knowledge of the law, which he was unable to do in complete sentences. Law enforcement attracts far too many bullies. I have found the police in the south to be some of the most ignorant I have ever encountered. Many of the departments in the south will hire high school drop outs if they have completed their GED.

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Mainsail wrote:

I fail to see the logic. You need better (faster?) access when you're locked into a climate controlled steel and glass pod than you do when just walking around outside? Are you picking up hitchhikers?

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I am assuming that the prefered mode of carry would be to have it open at all times, but in his vehicle is the only place he can legally(?) do so.

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I was stopped by a store employee at my local Kroger here in Jackson, TN. You can read about it at the link below. I was OCing with my wife when the employee inquired about the Glock 21 on my hip. I made her look stupid by knowing the law and asking her if she would rather me leave it in my truck where it could be stolen and actually used in a crime.
It looks like you just joined, so welcome aboard. If you wanna sit back a read about what going on at the front lines of the War aginst the 2nd Amendment then great but I'd advise you get your arsenal of knowledge together (laws, policies, counter arguments) and OC to let those who want to harass us know we're not going to back down.


http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=7058&forum_id=50&jump_to=115953#p115953

According to the front page/GA section of Opencarry.org it says the following.

Georgia is not a traditional open carry state. However, open carry IS legal with a Georgia permit. It is also worthy of note that you MAY openly carry a firearm without a permit in a motor vehicle.

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From what I've seen, the only people who wear fanny packs are people who CC and queers. Wearing a fanny pack is like a woman going topless and covering just her nipples. Yes, you can't see it, but everyone knows it there! Just wear a hip holster for Christs sake and if your to scared of the dumb ass with a badge throw your shirt over it. If you really wanna make yourself feel better about what happened then I would CC and fill my cart to the brim with products. While I was walking to the front I'd let my gun "accidently" goto an OC state on the way to the check-out counter. When Mr. Smart Ass starts his little speech again I'd make a scene, tell him it isn't against GA statute to carry openly and ask to see a manager. If the manager wants to discriminate then I'd ask for a refund or leave the full cart.

KEY POINT: Let them know that you aren't stupid about the law and that you won't be pressured to doing things "his way"

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fullauto223cal wrote:

From what I've seen, the only people who wear fanny packs are people who CC and queers.

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We can certainly do without your condescending manner about how a person does what, especially where it concerns new members who could be beneficial in the support of opencarry. Something we happen to be pursuing on this board. If you find yourself incapable of supporting new members who may not be as 'worldly' as you, then speak less please. We all thank you for that.

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fullauto223cal: it looks like you just joined, so welcome aboard to you too.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for the 2A but your post has some problems that must be addressed.

First, we do not refer to anyone as "queers" on this board. I don't give a rat what your personal opinion of any subgroup of Americans might be, those persons ("queers") also carry firearms for self defense, believe in the Constitution, and participate openly on this board. You never know, some "queer" with a gun might save YOUR life someday. Your generalization is as dumb as me saying anyone who carries a gun is a cop or a redneck.

Second, I'm sure you can find better ways to get your point across without injecting foul language you wouldn't say in front of your priest. For the record, I'm an atheist and have no priest to worry about and I still find ways to keep my language clean on this board.

Third, you seem to think you have some "special right" to carry a gun on private property while shopping in GA. If you really think that's the case I'm sure you wouldn't mind if some "queers" practiced some of their "rights" on your front lawn. No? Perhaps now you see that private property rights trump your carry rights. If the property owner (or agent acting on the owners behalf ie the manager) objects to something you are doing they have every right to ask you to leave and not come back.

Fourth, your suggested action of switching from CC to OC mode on the way to the checkout counter (for the sole purpose of inciting a confrontation with "the dumb ass with a badge") is prepostorus. You think making a scene causing the manager to be called will help nephilim's cause? You think the manager is going to listen to him spout off GA statute on open carry, turn to "the dumb ass with a badge" and tell him "Back off gumsghoe, he's right!" Do you really? If nephilim follows that advice he most likely will be banned from the store, and I think he's trying to avoid that; otherwise he would be posting about taking his business elsewhere, and not asking for advice in the hopes he can continue to shop at the local store.

My advice to neph: Carry your firearm in the fanny but make sure it's concealed next time. I doubt the cop will bother you again as long as you keep things out of sight / out of mind. If the cop does approach you about the gun issue, comply with his request if he asks you to leave. Return later to speak with the manager w/o the gun. Take the high road, act professionally, and answer any questions the manager may have. Don't try telling him about statutes and laws, because frankly if the manager does not want you in the store, the law is on his side. Your impression on the manager is what will determine if he ultimately allows you to CC in the store in the future, unless he is anti-gun to begin with.

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FogRider wrote:

Mainsail wrote:

I fail to see the logic. You need better (faster?) access when you're locked into a climate controlled steel and glass pod than you do when just walking around outside? Are you picking up hitchhikers?

Click to expand...

I am assuming that the prefered mode of carry would be to have it open at all times, but in his vehicle is the only place he can legally(?) do so.

Click to expand...

Uh...huh?

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"welcome aboard to you too."

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THANKS NAKED!!!

I likewise think, your post has some problems that must be addressed.

we do not refer to anyone as "queers" on this board.

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Really! I didn't see that in the rules section of the board so either you're now a moderator and decided to add that rule ex post facto or your just a member as your profile says and have a problem with the word "queer". As you "don't give a rat what [my] personal opinion of any subgroup of Americans might be" I'll join the club and say the same thing about everything after that sentence.

I can't help but get the impression that my post was taken the wrong way so I'll break it down to clear up any misunderstanding on your part.

"...the only people who wear fanny packs are people who CC and queers."

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This doesn't equate to nephilim being a "queer", "gay", "homosexual" or whatever. He obviously isn't as he wrote he was with is wife! I'd be just as glad to have a gay dude save my ass as anyone. I was only building on what Jack said when he wrote:

A fanny pack is a dead give away that you are carrying a firearm

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Fanny packs are not really stylish and anyone would look out of place wearing one. Meaning you would have a have a special purpose for wearing one i.e. carrying a gun or doing it because it feels good, like gay people.

I'm sure you can find better ways to get your point across without injecting foul language

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Well, I read over my post just to make sure and the only word I see that might be classfied as foul is "ass". I didn't know that one was high on your "foul" meter. The rules say:

[font="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"][/font]

Keep the profanity to a minimum. While an expletive may be the only way to convey the depth of anger / surprise or frustration you are trying to express, please do not use them gratuitously.

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I stayed within this bound of the rules, if you don't like them then stop reading this board. Ohh, I don't care if your an atheist or even a gay atheist. You can think and act however you like, I support that right as well.

Then you set up a straw man argument by assuming the following:

you seem to think you have some "special right" to carry a gun on private property while shopping in GA

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Actually I don't, I know full well that private property rights trump my right to carry a weapon. If you would have read my account at the link provided you would have read that I knew full well I would have to leave if the lady at Kroger had asked but as she did nothing but ask questions and get flustered I finished my shopping.

However, per my "enthusiasm for the 2A" I said, if I were him, I think nephilim should confront the issue head on as I outlined in my scenario. I know not everyone is as gung-ho as I am, especially you. You seem like you'd just bend over and take whatever the anti-gun/anti-carry types want to give you.

Until next time nakedshoplifter, put some damn clothes and stop stealing crap OK!
PS: MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU, IN A NON-QUEER WAY:celebrate

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I wonder what the repercussion would be if you were 'caught' somehow with a gun in that store. Perhaps it would depend on if the owner/management wanted to press charges. If it was me, and it would be terribly inconvenient to shop elsewhere, I would probably CC in a non-fanny pack fashion (hahaha...fanny pack fashion). No one needs to know you are carrying unless you want them to.Maybe try out anIWB...too uncomfortable for me, but some ppl love them.

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nakedshoplifter wrote:

For the record, I'm an atheist and have no priest to worry about

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:shock:I thought I was the only one... :lol:

My personal advice would be to get rid of the fanny pack, they're quite conspicuous this day and age. I'd say get a nice OWB holster for open carrying and a good IWB for concealed (CTAC or MTAC recommended).

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Mainsail wrote:

FogRider wrote:

Mainsail wrote:

I fail to see the logic. You need better (faster?) access when you're locked into a climate controlled steel and glass pod than you do when just walking around outside? Are you picking up hitchhikers?

Click to expand...

I am assuming that the prefered mode of carry would be to have it open at all times, but in his vehicle is the only place he can legally(?) do so.

Click to expand...

Uh...huh?

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Again, assumptions here, but to clarify what I was trying to say: He has to conceal at all times, so the fanny pack needs to stay closed most of the time even thought it would be preferable to keep it open. He can open it (the fanny pack) in his vehicle as this would still be concealed. Got out of the vehicle, forgot to close it back up.
Is this anywhere close, nephilim?

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KEY POINT: Let them know that you aren't stupid about the law and that you won't be pressured to doing things "his way"

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Last time I quoted the law to a cop, I went to jail. I even had the relevant section of the state law printed out in the car as a reference. No matter. Might makes right, if they want to be jerks.

-ljp

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Legba wrote:

KEY POINT: Let them know that you aren't stupid about the law and that you won't be pressured to doing things "his way"

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Last time I quoted the law to a cop, I went to jail. I even had the relevant section of the state law printed out in the car as a reference. No matter. Might makes right, if they want to be jerks.

-ljp

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If you were in the right, I do hope you made their lives miserable.

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SouthernBoy wrote:

Legba wrote:

KEY POINT: Let them know that you aren't stupid about the law and that you won't be pressured to doing things "his way"

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Last time I quoted the law to a cop, I went to jail. I even had the relevant section of the state law printed out in the car as a reference. No matter. Might makes right, if they want to be jerks.

-ljp

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If you were in the right, I do hope you made their lives miserable.

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He's working on it; the system, however, has been working at it's normal ponderous pace. Check the Ohio forum.

P.S. Any updates Legba?

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Nothing lately - next (and last) preliminary hearing is middle of February. There's an outside chance the case will get chucked then. Failing that, it will probably go to trial sometime in April, I expect.

-ljp