Militias

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Doug Huffman wrote:

glocknroll wrote:

Sorry: "JBTs"?

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I can't answer that for fear of being accused of <whiney voice>cop bashing</whiney voice>.

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Sorry I'm so dense. Yes, Big Brother and his Jack Booted Thugs are watching.



(Is my anti-government paranoia showing?)

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mancel wrote:

skidmark wrote:

mancel wrote:

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No, I don't want to play "war." What I wanted to know is if there was a group of people that got together to train for times of disaster.

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In which case you have been referred to the Virginia Defense Force. If you do not like them, consider the Red cross or the Salvation Army. All three of them do what you say you want to get involved with.

The Virginia Defense Force comes closest to the definition of a "militia" but is, as its name says, alligned with the state government. The other two are private organizations but do accept both statecand federal funding, which may or may be too much alignment for your taste. IF the Governor authorizes it, they can direct traffic, butcannot performany other "police" powers.

Again, "the militia" is just all the able-bodied citizens of a political jurisdiction until the Governor calls them up for service. At that point they become the state's militia. There are no provisions for counties or cities to "call out the militia" The closest you can get to that is CERT http://www.vaemergency.com/citcorps/cert/index.cfm. The folks that participate in CERT work on the local level unless grouped for an area- or state-wide event. They do not wear uniforms, but do get neat vests and backpacks.

Another option for you is the Amature Radio Emergency Services http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/pscm/sec1-ch1.html, or REACT http://www.reactintl.org/or RACES http://www.aresva.org/.

If none of these fit your needs you could try looking stuff up on your own, now that you have refined your terms and desires to participate in something that certainly is not a "militia."

skidmark

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mancel wrote:

I don't know if this is the appropriate place for this thread, but I figured it'd get the most appropriate attention here.

I was wondering if there were any militias one could join in Virginia that weren't affiliated with any government.

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Attention you asked for and attention you got!

You asked a loaded question! Paramilitary groups/non governmental militias are, if not illegal, generally subversive. Anyone asking such questions, should not be suprised at fervor of the responses. We are first responsible citizens and with a few exceptions, well enformed.

I am willing, temporarily, to grant you immunity based on presumed inexperience.

Please, fellow readers, do not remind me that we are the militia. That is not the interpertation that we are dealing with herein.

Yata hey

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skidmark wrote:

there are milirary re-enactment groups that start from the Middle Ages and end up somewhere around the Vitenam era.

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A few years back the FBI had the re-enactors classified as the same kind of potential threat as the boy scouts (a para-military organization). What an insult to grown re-enactors or a back handed compliment to the boy scouts!

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Well I thank you all for your input. I'm more learned than I was before about the topic and appreciate your comments.

By "appropriate attention" I didn't mean any or all attention. Perhaps I should have been more specific. I was hoping my question would be answered by Virginia citizens that had or have experience in a militia, hence why I put it in the Virginia forum (Not saying out of state comments aren't welcome, I appreciate all input on the matter).
Maybe first I should have posted a thread introducing myself. ?

For a little more clarity:
It's illegal to get a group of men together and call it a militia? Wouldn't a militia be more effective in the event of an emergency if they had some kind of training?
What makes a privately owned army legal?
From this thread I get the idea that the government is keeping in check something that's supposed to keep it in check.

Thanks again for all the info. I'll be sure to leave any loaded questions i have at home.

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mancel wrote:

SNIP 1. It's illegal to get a group of men together and call it a militia? Wouldn't a militia be more effective in the event of an emergency if they had some kind of training? What makes a privately owned army legal?
2. From this thread I get the idea that the government is keeping in check something that's supposed to keep it in check.

Thanks again for all the info. I'll be sure to leave any loaded questions i have at home.

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1. § 18.2-433.2. Paramilitary activity prohibited.

A person shall be guilty of unlawful paramilitary activity, punishable as a Class 5 felony if he:

1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

2. Assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ such training for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder.

2. While it can be seen to bepotentially protecting a tyrannical government,don't forget that it also protects us against a tyrant overthrowing a benevolent government.

Such law does not render theclassic militia ineffective regarding tyranny, however. Those in government who would oppress the populace know the populace is well armed. And they know many of the populace have prior military training.

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Guess you'll have to come to indiana
http://www.indianamilitia.org/

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Citizen wrote:

mancel wrote:

SNIP 1. It's illegal to get a group of men together and call it a militia? Wouldn't a militia be more effective in the event of an emergency if they had some kind of training? What makes a privately owned army legal?
2. From this thread I get the idea that the government is keeping in check something that's supposed to keep it in check.

Thanks again for all the info. I'll be sure to leave any loaded questions i have at home.

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1. § 18.2-433.2. Paramilitary activity prohibited.

A person shall be guilty of unlawful paramilitary activity, punishable as a Class 5 felony if he:

1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

2. Assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ such training for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder.

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My reading of that law is that paramilitary organizations are perfectly legal as long as they are not intended to cause civil disorder.

Otherwise, everytime a bunch of us get together with an instructor to "assemble...for the purpose of..being instructed", we are all felons.

We have a right to freedom of association, after all, even if Big Bro doesn't respect it.

I wouldn't recommend it, though. Could be bad for your career. Maybe from now on I shouldn't eat lunch with you guys, as that might be a threat to civil disorder. Nice knowin' yall.

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Quoted from Mancel...

No, I don't want to play "war." What I wanted to know is if there was a group of people that got together to train for times of disaster. Personally, The Martial Law Act and the government's use of the mercenary army Blackwater in Iraq and New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina scares the nuggets out of me, among other things. I believe America is "We the People," not "we the corporations" that seem to have a significant influence on our government today. Without the liberty of the people of this nation, America might as well be any other country. As a citizen of the United States, I aim to defend our freedoms and the people that enjoy these freedoms in any way necessary.


If the above is in fact what you want, check out the survival forum on arfcom. They get together, train, and practice various survival skills. THEY ARE NOT A MILITIA!!! Just a bunch of enthusiasts who practice to be self sufficient.

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skidmark,

I'm curious. did you have to practice a long time to be such an [moderator edit] @$$@*!%. or does it just come naturally?

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marine dad wrote:

skidmark,

I'm curious. did you have to practice a long time to be such an [moderator edit] @$$@*!%. or does it just come naturally?

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It seems to me that skid has some valid points. If I had stumbled across this sooner, I can't say I would've reponded too differently. What the OP was referring to was OBVIOUSLY what the government now calls paramilitary organizations. These are illegal, and EXTREMELY dubious. Whether he realized it or not, these are the only organizations that fit the description of what his interests were. Anyone who posted here asking about such groups deserved to be attacked.I personally see the danger of people like this to our cause. All it would take is a curious journalist to stumble across that post and the next thing you know, OCDO supports paramilitary groups and we all go onto some watchlist.

Just my .02.

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marine dad wrote:

skidmark,

I'm curious. did you have to practice a long time to be such an asshole. or does it just come naturally?

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I'm sorry, I didn't catch what your comment was in reference to? I haven't noticed skidmark making any bad comments but perhaps I just missed it.

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vmathis12019 wrote:

marine dad wrote:

skidmark,

I'm curious. did you have to practice a long time to be such an asshole. or does it just come naturally?

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It seems to me that skid has some valid points. If I had stumbled across this sooner, I can't say I would've reponded too differently. What the OP was referring to was OBVIOUSLY what the government now calls paramilitary organizations. These are illegal, and EXTREMELY dubious. Whether he realized it or not, these are the only organizations that fit the description of what his interests were. Anyone who posted here asking about such groups deserved to be attacked.I personally see the danger of people like this to our cause. All it would take is a curious journalist to stumble across that post and the next thing you know, OCDO supports paramilitary groups and we all go onto some watchlist.

Just my .02.

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Just my normal anti-gov't paranoia: we are already on someone's watch list.

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I haven't noticed skidmark making any bad comments but perhaps I just missed it.

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He didn't. It was on the mark!

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I'm a member of a group that somewhat regularly assembles, but not paramilitary, where we get together and train combative techniques and scenarios with the intent of using such training for the purpose of defending oneself, one's family, one's property (e.g.domicile)or an innocent 3rd party from grievous injury or death.

We're called "shooting buddies" and like to kill pieces of paper!

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Virginia Defense Force is closest you will get but they are state authorized and apparently have been getting a fair amount of extra funding in hopes to be come professional force that governor can call on. They just recieved riot training and support Virginia National Guard when on FTX in VA. State has expressed interest in unit that Bush can't call up and take for his "war on terror".

About them not being armed, they started conducted background checks on everyone so they could legally arm them if required and are hoping to begin weapon training soon.

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mancel wrote:

........I'd like to know about militias in the state of Virginia...........

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You now know what it takes to be part of a Militia.



If you want training.... Well thats on you.

Goggle Gunsite and get ready to pay some scratch and you can learn all you want to.



On second thought sinceyou are still under 18 I can work withyou. I am a Scout Master and I can help you get the rifle and shotgun shooting merit badges.



Tarzan

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tarzan1888 wrote:

mancel wrote:

........I'd like to know about militias in the state of Virginia...........

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You now know what it takes to be part of a Militia.



If you want training.... Well thats on you.

Goggle Gunsite and get ready to pay some scratch and you can learn all you want to.



On second thought sinceyou are still under 18 I can work withyou. I am a Scout Master and I can help you get the rifle and shotgun shooting merit badges.



Tarzan

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Damn that was cold (funny, but cold). No offense to anyone, but I think his heart is in the right place. Let's please give him a break.

Yeah, I know: "one break, coming up..."

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mancel wrote:

I don't know if this is the appropriate place for this thread, but I figured it'd get the most appropriate attention here.

I was wondering if there were any militias one could join in Virginia that weren't affiliated with any government.

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Composition of militia.
The militia of the Commonwealth of Virginia shall consist of all able-bodied citizens of this Commonwealth and all other able-bodied persons resident in this Commonwealth who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, who are at least sixteen years of age and, except as hereinafter provided, not more than fifty-five years of age. The militia shall be divided into four classes, the National Guard, which includes the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard, the Virginia State Defense Force, the naval militia, and the unorganized militia.
(1930, p. 948; 1942, p. 642; Michie Code 1942, § 2673(1); 1944, p. 24; 1958, c. 393; 1970, c. 662; 1973, c. 401; 1976, c. 399; 1979, c. 647; 1984, c. 765; 1989, c. 414.)
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+44-1

Welcome to the fold! First round's on you! :celebrate

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Citizen wrote:

mancel wrote:

SNIP 1. It's illegal to get a group of men together and call it a militia? Wouldn't a militia be more effective in the event of an emergency if they had some kind of training? What makes a privately owned army legal?
2. From this thread I get the idea that the government is keeping in check something that's supposed to keep it in check.

Thanks again for all the info. I'll be sure to leave any loaded questions i have at home.

Click to expand...

1. § 18.2-433.2. Paramilitary activity prohibited.

A person shall be guilty of unlawful paramilitary activity, punishable as a Class 5 felony if he:

1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

2. Assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ such training for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder.

2. While it can be seen to bepotentially protecting a tyrannical government,don't forget that it also protects us against a tyrant overthrowing a benevolent government.

Such law does not render theclassic militia ineffective regarding tyranny, however. Those in government who would oppress the populace know the populace is well armed. And they know many of the populace have prior military training.

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So basically rebellion as well as training to be effective in a rebellion is illegal?

Well I guess I cannot expect much better from the mini-empires within the empire. I suppose George "the Traitor" Washington set that precedent long ago with his opposition to Shays Rebellion and crushing of the Whiskey Rebellion, and it was solidified in King Lincolns reign of terror. Not to mention the recent acts of Clinton and Bush, modern day Lincolns (though I would hardly say they were/are nearly as terrible as ol' dishonest Abe).

I am sure the evils that be will conflate ANY training as some ridiculous implied 'civil disorder'.

No matter. This is one Anti-Federalist, anti-Hamiltonian, radical for liberty who will not obey the statutes above and will continue to train himself and with others whenever he damn well pleases.