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Thread: The last straw... :-(

  1. #1
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    Well, I've finally had it I guess. I did like the place, I even felt bad for not using it on a few occasions. But today was the final straw so to speak. :?
    Honestly I'm not too happy about having to quit going there, because I do like a lot of the folks there, but just out of principle it will be hard for me to let this one go.





    Today I had almost completely made up my mind on the Mossberg 590, but the ever-helpful salesman suggested that I also consider the Remington 870 tactical model. After handling it, it had a very smooth action and felt more balanced to me. It also had a pistol grip that fit my hand perfectly and the recoil pad was one of the nicest I've seen. I liked it more than the Mossberg, and I was very glad he had showed me it, even though it was about $50 more expensive. I liked it so much that it wouldn’t have even been a decision; I would have bought it right then, if it had the ghost ring sights. What it had was a bead sight on a small raised platform though, so I wanted to compare both of the shotgun’s sights before making a final decision. The store was very busy at this time, so when I compared the sights on the two shotguns, I pointed both of them behind the counter.


    The salesman had made sure that both weapons were unloaded multiple times. I looked at each one twice, and he checked each one when he picked it up and before he put it back. Now, being rather sensitive to the fact that people don’t like to have guns pointed at them, I didn’t want to point the gun at an area where customers were or could inadvertently walk by. There were so many customers and employees on either side of the counter on both my left and right sides, that that pointing it down the length of the counter was not an option. People were walking all through the store as well, so I didn’t want to just point it out there either. Hence the reason I pointed it behind the counter. I did put my finger on the trigger once, for a split second, after making sure that it was all clear, to see how far it was to the trigger. I mean, these are things that I am going to have to check before I spend hundreds of dollars on an item. For the rest of the time I had my hand in what is it's "natural" position, with the trigger finger extended straight out as if I were pointing it and resting on the side of the firearm. This is how I ALWAYS hold firearms when I'm not ready to shoot. The only time I touch the trigger at all is for a second on the day I actually plan to BUY the gun for sure. Plus, I don't even make them get things out that I'm not interested in, or able to buy. I had looked at the Mossberg earlier this week and never even touched the trigger. When I came in with the money though, that's a different story. I will be checking everything before I buy it.


    The salesman who was helping me was standing in front of me and just slightly to my right. At that point I had the Mossberg aimed slightly down and to the left of the salesman who was helping me. Also note that I was standing right up next to the glass, and I couldn’t lower the gun enough to not aim the Mossberg below someone's legs (Even if they were all the way back with the ammo) from where I was, because the counter was physically in the way.

    At this point another salesperson, who was on the employee side of the counter, apparently came up on my right and walked behind the salesman helping me. The Mossberg was pointed maybe 20 degrees to the left of the salesman and slightly down from horizontal.


    The salesperson that was walking just went right behind him (And once again he walked behind him, so I didn’t realize he was coming until he was right there) and continued on heading directly towards the area where the gun was pointing. The salesman who was helping me must have noticed the other salesperson walking around behind him, because right around the same time he placed his hand on the barrel and directed it down until it reached the counter and couldn’t go down any further, and then to my right, furthur towards himself but not so that it was actually pointed at him. The salesperson that was walking continued, and thus he was in front of the barrel for a short time period. It was for maybe one second, I can’t imagine it was much more and it may have been less. During that time, and all of the time up to it, I recall having my trigger finger extended and resting against the side of the gun's frame, not even near the trigger guard or the trigger itself. I had cycled the action about 4 times, and the gun had been checked as clear by the salesman helping me 3 times already. I had no ammunition on me and there was none anywhere on the entire length of the counter, or within reach of me. I also wasn’t just pointing it at him, in fact I didn’t even know he was coming until he had pretty much walked right in front of me. At that point the salesman put his hand on the gun and moved it to the right, just as the other salesperson was going to walk right in front of it. Since he pulled it to my right, he put it directly into his path. Anyway, right after he walked by the barrel and had continued on maybe 3 or 4 more feet, he stopped, turned and appeared to stare at me for a second; then he raised his voice a bit (Basically he took a stern authoritative tone) and stated (Btw, it’s now been about 10 seconds since he walked in front of it), “DON’T POINT THAT AT ME!” As if I had raised it up and purposely pointed it at him right when he got in front of me, just to "see what a person looks like through the ghost ring sights." A few seconds later, as he sat down perhaps 4 feet to my left, right in front of the customers he was making a sale to, he muttered, quite clearly and awfully loud (I’m sure he wanted me to hear it), “Dumbass.” I must say, this statement got to me a bit. I didn’t like or appreciate it.

    This is an armed individual as far as I know, as the other times I’ve been there plenty of employees have been, and it seems like he is one of the folks I’ve seen carrying. Since he sat down immediately after walking in front of and right past the gun I was holding, I didn’t notice if he was carrying or not today. The point is, he doesn’t need to be raising his voice at me or anyone else even if he’s not carrying, but even more so if he was. When I carry, I make sure that I don’t do anything that could instigate a fight or argument because that is highly irresponsible when you have a loaded firearm on your person. You don’t do things that could cause a situation to escalate further. This action made me extremely uncomfortable, as I even felt (Although I do very seriously doubt that anything would happen) somewhat concerned for my safety. I felt like there was no way for me to ask him what had just occurred, or if he was joking or what, because he might then take it to the next level. He certainly didn’t smile or laugh, so I assume this was dead serious. And since he was acting like I was pointing a gun at him, how do I know he wont take that as a good enough reason to draw his gun on me? How do I know if I say, “Did you just call me a dumbass?” that he wont become so crazy that he’d do something like that? I don’t know this guy, so I won’t just assume that nothing can happen.

    The fact is, he walked directly in front of the barrel on his own two legs. I had the barrel raised and was already pointing it in a safe direction, he then just walked right in front of it and decided to get nasty with me as if I had forced him to do that. He didn’t ask me to do anything with it before walking in front of it. He didn’t just duck down below it. He didn’t notify me in any way that he was going to be walking in front of it. All he really did was tell me, after walking directly in front of a gun I was holding (And in front of a lot of other customers/employees) that I was a “dumbass.”

    I went through all of the possibilities for what I could have done in this situation, and I can’t see how I did anything wrong. He should have notified me that he was about to walk in front of me if he was concerned for his safety and noticed that I obviously did not see him yet. Here are the possibilities I see for what would have happened if I had moved it in any direction other than pretty much where it was pointed:

    1. If I had raised the gun up at that point, I would have ended up sighting this salesperson’s HEAD in the process.

    2. I could not lower the gun to the point that it wouldn’t have had any part of his body sighted either, because the counter was in the way. It would have been pointed at his knees perhaps, instead of his abdomen, for that split second. (Which is what the salesman forced me to do)

    3. If I had moved it much more than 20 degrees to the right I would have targeted the salesman who was helping me, and also would have had to go right through the other salesperson’s path.

    4. If I had moved it significantly to the left I would have targeted the other customers and employees standing on either side of the counter.

    5. If I had only moved it slightly to the left, I would have targeted the area above the seat where he was about to sit, or targeted another area in which he was about to be walking, which still wouldn’t have avoided the situation.

    6. The only option would have been an immediate upward motion sweeping slightly to left, but I was prevented from doing that. Honestly though, I would assume this guy just doesn’t care since he WALKED RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.

    The salesman who was helping me directed the gun for me when he noticed the guy coming around him, I mean he physically directed the barrel with his hand. I didn’t have anything to do with where the barrel went at that point. I did not, at any time, “track” the moving salesperson with the weapon, nor did I raise it up from a lowered position right as he walked by. I had it raised for what I would estimate to have been at least 10 to 20 seconds before he walked by. I had been looking at the shotguns and pointing them in that same direction for a few minutes actually, to compare the sights, which is what I was paying attention to. I did not, at any time, intentionally sight any human being within the store.

    After this happened I told the salesman helping me that I didn’t think I could purchase the weapon at that point, or at least until someone clarified what had just occurred. His response was “Well, you don’t have to buy it.” So I gave it back to him and he put it up, and then rightly continued on to help some other customers. I was rather upset about it and I wanted to talk to a manager right then, so I talked to another employee for a moment about it. He was very nice and helpful and he said that he could bring it to the attention of a manager if I wanted. Since the store was so busy and since I don’t like getting folks in trouble, I told him it was alright, but that I just didn’t understand why that situation had occurred in the first place. He said that he could bring it up after hours and I said that would be fine

    I am very torn at this point about what to do as I like the store, and I have always had good experiences there before. However, now I don’t feel comfortable asking to view a firearm in that store again. Knowing that if an employee chooses to walk in front of the barrel without even trying to notify me beforehand, I’ll be the one to get yelled at, and who knows what else. He obviously took it very seriously, as if I had intentionally raised a gun and pointed it at him. That’s a serious accusation to make to an unarmed individual when you’re carrying, and as I said it made me extremely uncomfortable. If it was a joke, nobody laughed, so he might want to fill me in on that one if it was the case.

    I also honestly don’t know at this point how valued I am as a customer. Obviously he thinks I’m just an idiot toying around or something. In reality I was within 5 minutes of making my second purchase in that store. Not only that, but had I recommended somewhere else to my friend, he wouldn’t have purchased his firearm there either.

    If all I am is a liability and annoyance for the employees, then I certainly wont bother anyone in there again. All I wanted to do was decide whether I could deal with the bead sight or if I wanted the ghost rings badly enough to give up the added “smoothness” and good overall feel of the Remington that I handled.

  2. #2
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    Just my opinion but, I would talk to the manager/owner to let him/her know of the extreemly unprofessional manner in which you were treated. This guy should have better sense than to walk in front of a weapon in the first place....he was in "condition white" and had no business saying what he did. If there was a "dumbass" in this situation, it was him.
    Depending on the outcome, you might want to let everyone know where this happened so others can avoid a similar situation.
    That said, when I'm gun shopping, I always point upwards towards a light fixture etc. so that there is never a chance for this to happen.
    Good luck......

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    I'd take the high road.

    He over-reacted; but he can only really be accused of that because he didn't know the whole story. What are the odds that the timing would work out exactly the way it did? I'll bet a salesman could turn and see the same thing in any number of gun stores for the next 30 years, say the same thing, and be right.

    By now, his co-worker has probably already explained the situation to him.

    I'd just carry on as usual. Make it a point to be pleasant to the offender. If it seems like he still believes you were wrong, explain it to him in a way that lets him off the hook and save his dignity. This is known as grace.

    I second the above post regarding using the ceiling.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    I may let the owner/management know, but if I do it will have to be via phone or ground mail. Their website doesn't list any contact email or anything. I have already typed a letter, some of which is identical to this post. I wrote it immediately upon getting home because I wanted everything to be as fresh as possible in my memory. I haven't decided what to do yet.


    That said, when I'm gun shopping, I always point upwards towards a light fixture etc. so that there is never a chance for this to happen.
    This is more practical with a small gun though. Try it with a 7lb, 41" long shotgun. It's almost impossible to get a feel for the balance and handling when pointing it up like that, not to mention that before it gets pointed up it will be horizontal for at least some time. I will admit that I wrongly assumed that the folks behind the counter wouldn't be ones to walk in front of it, unless of course they simply did not care, and then I couldn't imagine they'd actually say something to me about it. They don't have to worry about it happening in there again though, as I doubt I'll ever buy a firearm there again, so I'll have no reason to hold any firearms in the storefront. If I do ever go back, and that's a big IF, then I will probably only be using their range services from now on. Unless I literally get a letter saying the guy doesn't work there anymore or something, then I doubt I'd ever handle another firearm in their storefront. There's just no way to completely remove the possibility of it pointing at someone at some point if nobody back there will take any responsibility for their own safety.


    He over-reacted; but he can only really be accused of that because he didn't know the whole story. What are the odds that the timing would work out exactly the way it did? I'll bet a salesman could turn and see the same thing in any number of gun stores for the next 30 years, say the same thing, and be right.
    When he said it to me he was like 4 feet to my left, way past where the barrel was pointed and I was no longer even aiming. I stopped aiming as soon as a hand touched the barrel. I was just standing there for a second like, "wtf?"

    If he came from where I think he did, then he walked down about 15-20 feet of counter before he got to me. I was focused on the sights, there were lots of people in my periphery in front of and behind the counter. He had two customers that were positioned 4 feet to my left, which is why he was that far as well. They were waiting for him to bring something back over there, and I had been pointing shotguns at the same spot for about 5 minutes. He knew I was there and that I was pointing shotguns. I think he also had to have seen me considering he was almost 90 degrees to my right if he was down towards the end of the counter and walking back to the customers. He could have notified me, or simply ducked down a bit. Whatever, but don't just walk out in front of it and then act like I made you do it.

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    right in front of the customers he was making a sale to, he muttered, quite clearly and awfully loud (I’m sure he wanted me to hear it), “Dumbass.”
    The salesperson that was walking continued, and thus he was in front of the barrel for a short time period.
    You would think that an employee of a gun store would knowthat customers frequentlypoint/aim guns. At least I would hope he does. This should do at least two things: 1. Make him more aware while at work (as to not walk in front of someone aiming a weapon). 2. Trust thathis fellow employees check and recheck every weapon before handing it to a customer (as to make him not over-react when he idiotically walks in front of a paying customer getting the feel for a purchase).

    If it were me, I would have replied to the fellow who remarked, "Dumbass." Not sure what I would have said, but I don't think I could have dropped it there. If for some reason I didn't respond, Idefinitely wouldn't have made apurchase (just as you didn't). I would personally speak with the highest person you can get a hold of on Monday and share with him what you have shared with us. Please let us know how this goes. Pending the result of this, I would decide my future business here.



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    People who work in gun stores, just like any other walkin sales operation, should be expected to conduct themselves accordingly. That means to have knowledge of the products they sell and as much of the surrounding and "supporting" data as possible in order to service their consumer base. Along with this comes an awareness to what is happening in the store during the course of open hours. A good example might be a lamp store with crystal table lamps on display and customers with children viewing the products. Children cannot be trusted around such items because they can knock them over, break them, and perhaps get cut.

    Same thing in gun stores. The onus is on the sales and management staff to constantly view and monitor the general goings on so that potential mishaps and worse can be detected and avoided. The salesman who belittled you had no business to act in such a manner. Were he actually concerned, then he should have paused so that you could acknowledge his presence before continuing behind the counter. Solely based upon your writeup, you do not appear to have any fault in this.. the fault rests on the shoulders of the arrogant salesman. I would "call" him on this.

    That is to say, I would have spoken to management right away, as soon after the incident as possible. If this was not an option, then I would call and ask to meet with the manager to inform him of this unconscionable act and let him handle it.

    I would not let this pass.. I would want to get back at this guy.

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    Employee is a dumbass, tell the manager/owner.

    In gun stores people point guns in all kind of directions. He walked in front of the shotgun, you did not point it at him. Maybe for some reason he thought you did. It is his responsibility to not walk in front of a gun that is being aimed/pointed/dry fired. Either way bust his fukin balls, he shouldn't be calling you a dumbass.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    Employee is a dumbass, tell the manager/owner. As the manager of a gun store I would like to know if my employees were acting like this.

    In gun stores people point guns in all kind of directions. He walked in front of the shotgun, you did not point it at him. Maybe for some reason he thought you did. It is his responsibility to not walk in front of a gun that is being aimed/pointed/dry fired. Either way bust his fukin balls, he shouldn't be calling you a dumnass.
    Surely I would've put it in a more eloquent way, but I tend to agree with this comment.

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    Let it slide. He just wanted to feel good about himself. Maybe he was having abad day with folks that have no reason to be in a gun shop, probably had few guns in his face that day alone. Go back and get the remington.

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    .40 Cal wrote:
    Let it slide. He just wanted to feel good about himself. Maybe he was having abad day with folks that have no reason to be in a gun shop, probably had few guns in his face that day alone. Go back and get the remington.
    What will deter him from acting this way in the future? Nothing. Behavior this rude and unprofessional should be addressed. And as someone already said, I'm sure the management would like to know.

    The act of walking in front of guns while they are aimed should also be addressed, in the intrest of his own saftey.

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    I've only seen it done once but I thought it was such a good idea that more stores would do it: a shop I used to visit had a "range". It consisted of a poster about 4 feet high that had (IIRC) a duck at the top, a broadside deer in the middle, and a prairie dog at the bottom. It was placed so that everyone along the kinda short counter could site at it. The employers said "keep the gun pointed at the poster" and gave each other a heads up that a gun was up.

    I don't know how many times I've stood in a busy shop waiting for a lane to clear in any direction.

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    in this situation, i'd say that the employee acted a bit like a jerk. Common courtesy applies everywhere, even if guns are involved. If you have to walk in front of someone looking at a gun, say "excuse me" and somehow acknowledge them, not walk in front of it, grab the barrel, and then make an comment about the person. If this issue can't be resolved, i opt to spend my cash elsewhere.

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    Jim675 wrote:
    I've only seen it done once but I thought it was such a good idea that more stores would do it: a shop I used to visit had a "range". It consisted of a poster about 4 feet high that had (IIRC) a duck at the top, a broadside deer in the middle, and a prairie dog at the bottom. It was placed so that everyone along the kinda short counter could site at it. The employers said "keep the gun pointed at the poster" and gave each other a heads up that a gun was up.
    You know I do like that idea. If I do end up sending a letter, perhaps I can make a suggestion along these lines to avoid any future misunderstandings. From then on, any employee having a gun pointed at them would presumably be entirely at fault, as everyone would always have to aim in the same direction. I also like the heads up idea, although this store is a bit too large for that part to really work reliably. We're talking about a building that is apparently over 15,000 sq. ft.

    The idea of placing "targets" in a specific area, and requiring customers to handle firearms only in that area is a pretty intelligent thing to do. Since everyone would always aim them only at those "targets," employees would know to avoid standing in that area or to at least excercise caution when moving through it.

    The weird thing is this place has a range with perhaps 7 or 8 lanes, so you'd think that with all of the safety talk they give you over there they'd have set up a similar situation in the showroom, rather than having guns pointed all over the place.

    That's the whole reason I was aiming it behind the counter, there were so many people just walking around that it was a HIGH risk that someone would inadvertently walk in front of it if I had aimed out into the showroom. Of course to both my right and left was about 20 feet of counter (Literally 35-40 feet of glass counter total), with employees on one side and customers on the other side of it. They should designate the end of the counter area for aiming firearms, and make the employees take the firearm down there and THEN allow the customers to handle it, after giving specific instructions on where exactly it needs to be aimed.

    I aimed it at the same place the entire time, which is why I'm really baffled as to how he thought that all of a sudden I just decided it was time to sight the salesperson.

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    .40 Cal wrote:
    Let it slide. He just wanted to feel good about himself. Maybe he was having abad day with folks that have no reason to be in a gun shop, probably had few guns in his face that day alone. Go back and get the remington.
    I wouldn't let is slide and I'll give an excellent reason why.

    Suppose you are the owner of that shop. Would you want one of your employees treating a customer of yours in that manner? After all, you are in business to make money and that kind of behavior takes money out of your pocket.



    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Weak 9mm wrote:
    And once again he walked behind him, so I didn’t realize he was coming until he was right there
    I agree that the gun shop employee was rude, and I wouldn't do business with them based on that. However, you need to be more aware of your surroundings when you're handling a gun. I know that it's easy to be distracted when you're carefully studying the gun to buy it, but the fact of the matter is that you were handling a gun and he was not, so you are the one that needs to be aware of your surroundings, not him.

    Still, I see your point about how you didn't point the gun at him; he walked in front of it. There is a difference, and it seems like he was the "dumbass". Especially for acting so rudely toward a customer.

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    Did you not read the part about how the guy who was helping me pointed the barrel for me?

    I was aware that people were behind the counter. They were ALL around me, to my left and right on both sides of the counter. I've already said that I wrongly assumed the employees wouldn't walk in front of it unless they didn't care.

    Please, do suggest what I should have done instead though. And if it's "You should have pointed at the ceiling," then don't even bother saying it, because about 10 other people did the same thing I was at one point or another during the time I was in there (eg - aimed a firearm behind the counter). Also, I had such a narrow angle left to right in which to move that I never pointed it any other direction. I could NOT turn in a manner that would have avoided him and everyone else, unless as I said I did a weird upward motion to the left, which is the exact opposite of what the other guy FORCED me to do. I have done the same thing there so many times it's ridiculous. The guy that did it is someone who I've seen there many, many times.

    Where should I have pointed it when the guy grabbed the barrel and did it for me? Should I really have ripped it out of his hands?

    To me what he did is akin to walking out on a range and screaming at everyone that they should have been pointing their guns UPrange and to "stop pointing them at him."


    Anyway, this is what I wrote, in case you missed it:

    The salesperson that was walking just went right behind him (And once again he walked behind him, so I didn’t realize he was coming until he was right there) and continued on heading directly towards the area where the gun was pointing. The salesman who was helping me must have noticed the other salesperson walking around behind him, because right around the same time he placed his hand on the barrel and directed it down until it reached the counter and couldn’t go down any further, and then to my right, furthur towards himself but not so that it was actually pointed at him. The salesperson that was walking continued, and thus he was in front of the barrel for a short time period.


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    Yeah, I thought that was really messed up too.

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    I know that it's easy to be distracted when you're carefully studying the gun to buy it, but the fact of the matter is that you were handling a gun and he was not, so you are the one that needs to be aware of your surroundings, not him.
    You must think that there was just a single person just walking up, and nobody else in my periphery. It just wasn't that simple. And it is his responsibility, as an employee, not to walk right in front of me, when I am unable to turn away. As I said though, I NEVER GOT THE CHANCE TO REACT. I was AWARE that someone was about to be in front of the barrel when I saw him emerge. As soon as this guy thought the person was coming behind him, he grabbed it. The hand was on the barrel slightly before or exactly as this guy popped out behind him.

    Note that the guy that was walking was much smaller than the guy that was helping me. His body was completely blocked from my view. He had walked down 20 feet of counter prior to getting to me though, so he could have easily noticed me aiming it down there. Unfortunately, he walked through a sea of people in my periphery. It's not like there was this single object moving right towards where I was aiming and that I just didn't notice. I am a pilot, I have to maintain a high degree of SA. I also never have guns out in a group of people anyway, because that is always a risk, and hence the reason why I never pointed it out into the store, where inexperienced people might be walking around. Also, I could not put it to my shoulder and then turn, as I said, because there were people all around me, like to the left and right, and behind.

    But once again, if I was being irresponsible, please illustrate what the proper reaction would have been.

  19. #19
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    You guys are right. I was just in a very liberal, peace minded mood. Give 'im hell!

  20. #20
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    They may not want me coming to the little NC get together anymore.

    I may end up targeting everyone there with my reckless non-situationally aware ways.


    Also, do note Mr. expvideo, that I have certainly learned some valuable things from this situation. I will make every attempt to ensure that I don't allow it to occur EVER again, unfortunately it's just something that had to happen for me to learn. I will say that I don't feel like this was my fault. I do feel like I should have made the employees go above and beyond their own policies regarding where people may handle a firearm, especially after reading that wonderful suggestion about having the storefront "range." That is probably the single best idea/statement to have come out of this thread IMO.

    Now, if I ever handle a firearm in that store (Or any other with less clear "rules") again, I'm going to first of all make sure that the salesperson makes it extremely clear as to where they want me to point the weapon. Secondly I am going to make the salesperson take the gun down to a far corner of the store, rather than view it right there as they were letting everyone do. Third, I'm going to make sure that they understand that I would like for them to notify everyone approaching, or at the very least to help keep an eye out and inform me of anyone approaching, even if they think I see them. If I'm in a small store, I may ask them to announce it or I may simply announce it myself.

  21. #21
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    I agree that holding your barrel was a mistake and it caused the problem. I also agree that getting in your face about something the other guy did was rude and uncalled for.

    That being said, there is never a good excuse for not noticing someone walking toward your field of fire. It doesn't matter how short the guy is, or how crowded the store is. I've never pointed a gun at someone while I was shopping, and I've been in some busy stores. The fact of the matter is that if you are handling a gun, you need to be aware of your surroundings. You need to be aware if someone is heading toward your field of fire, and you need to react to it. It's pretty hard to react when someone's holding your barrel, though. So I agree with that part, but I don't agree with making excuses of why you didn't see him coming.

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    I am human, I mean, I'm sorry to tell you. I don't really see how these are "excuses." I'm glad to hear that you're perfect, and that you haven't been in such a situation, but honestly you are also prone to making a mistake. In this case, the mistake was to have not made sure that the 3 things that I listed in my last post on page 1 occurred. I have never had this happen before, and I don't just point **** around "willy nilly."

    Also, as I've already said, his activities prior to "popping out" from behind the guy could have been anything.

    He may have walked down the length of the counter, and then stopped 7 feet to my right, done something, squatted down to get ammo, etc, and then popped up while simultaneously moving into my line of sight. I didn't ever see this guy just walk up clearly. Once again, it just wasn't like that.

    There were already people 4 feet away on either side of me, lol. This was a 16,000 square foot store, with 3 counters, and the one I was in front of was about 40 feet long. It had people all down it from one end to the other, on either side. I also never got a chance to react, so this whole "you weren't aware" thing doesn' even apply, as I said, I was in fact aware that he was coming out from behind the salesman. If I could have just reacted he would never have been in front of the barrel, but I was prevented from acting by another employee, who in fact pulled the barrel directly into the guy's path.

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    Man, I wish I had a dollar for every time a customer pointed a gun directly at my head (negligently/incidentally, not intentionally). Sure, I check the guns each and every time they are handled, but Christ... that is never ok unless you intend to do someone in (and I'm the only one allowed to do that here). I just admonish them that this is never ok andthat "it's not loaded" is not an adequate response.

    That doesn't look to be the case here, and this guy sounds a bit uptight.

    -ljp

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    Yeah, as someone pointed out (Perhaps you?), and I'd imagine this had to be true, the guy probably did have guns pointed at him multiple times that day already. He was obviously in a hurry, as he was making two sales simultaneously. He was probably stressed out, and all I bet he saw was the guy grab the barrel. He probably assumed from that, that I had JUST lifted it up, when in fact it had been aiming in the same direction for 10-20 seconds already. Not to mention I had been aiming at the same spot there with every firearm I handled, and was standing in the same location doing this for 5-10 minutes. He had been next to me earlier, as I was handling the firearms, and then he left to go get all the forms for the customers. He knew I was there, but I bet he was focused on making the sale. It was an unfortunate situation.

    I have learned from this, and as any responsible individual would, I keep questioning what I could have done to prevent it.


    I've been standing in front of a counter and had a guy slam a tactical .308 rifle with a bipod down onto the relatively high counter. Due to the angle at which the rifle was resting (The bipod was extended), the barrel was pointed DIRECTLY at my head. That is the type of thing I think of as negligent, and I understand how much it can scare you and how upset it can make you when you think that someone has done something that stupid. But if he had been aiming it, especially since it had a scope on it narrowing things down a good bit more, and I just walked in front of him, that's not his fault IMO.


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    Whatever, dude. You did perfectly, and Jesus himself couldn't have avoided pointing that gun at someone. In fact I'm just being a bumbling ******* for suggesting that the guy holding the gun should be paying attention to the people around him.

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