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Thread: Interesting Comment by Lakewood PD

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    I was listening to Peirce County on the ham radio and heard the beeper come on for a possible armed robbery. All they knew, and all they told to the responding officers, was that a subject with a gun was seen running away from the Lakewood Towne Center. The dispatcher also reported that he was being chased by several other ‘subjects’. The dispatcher also gave a description of the robbery subject. Well, of course every car in Lakewood is going to respond and one finally asked dispatch to call the RP back and see if there was a victim, so that they would know what the crime was. Dispatch said they were working on it. Another car responded, “...a citizen saw the gun so there was a crime.”

    It turns out the robber stole a tip jar or something like that and when challenged by an employee, pulled the gun. The police captured the robber and wanted a K9 unit to help them find the gun, which the robber apparently tossed during his ~five minute run.

    So anyway, the implication is that an exposed gun is illegal, at least as far as that one LPD officer is concerned.

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    Obviously there was a serious crime commited. So officers are supposed to disregard calls that there are guns reported? I would like to see that all calls are looked into. No crime no foul..

    I keep forgetting the spell checker program..

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    heywoodjablowme wrote:
    Obviously there was a serious crime commited. So officers are supposed to disregard calls that there are guns reported? I would like to see that all calls are looked into. No crime no fowl..
    Uh....what?

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    Mainsail wrote:
    heywoodjablowme wrote:
    Obviously there was a serious crime commited. So officers are supposed to disregard calls that there are guns reported? I would like to see that all calls are looked into. No crime no fowl..
    Uh....what?
    Pretty clear to me, no criminal acts, no edible birds.

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    Mainsail wrote:
    So anyway, the implication is that an exposed gun is illegal, at least as far as that one LPD officer is concerned.
    I hate to be the devil's advocate here, but an exposed gun, during the commission of a crime, which was the circumstances under which this discussion was being conducted, is a crime. Or it atleast, bumps up the level of this certain crime. It goes from robbery, to armed robbery. While I'll agree that the cop should have probably phrased it differently, I don't think that we can all just jump to conclusions on this one. Not enough information.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    No, no, no. Does anyone read any more? The only thing the police knew was that a man was seen with a gun and was running. The details that it was a robbery did not come to their attention until after they had him at gunpoint.

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    Well, my first impression was that since it was a car responding with the "a citizen saw the gun" the officer in the car had talked to someone at the scene. We of course are missing a lot of the conversation. After reading it a couple times it still seems to me that a responding officer was at the scene and verified a gun was seen during the robbery. But then I consider theft and robbery crime as well.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Misguided Child wrote:
    Well, my first impression was that since it was a car responding with the "a citizen saw the gun" the officer in the car had talked to someone at the scene. We of course are missing a lot of the conversation. After reading it a couple times it still seems to me that a responding officer was at the scene and verified a gun was seen during the robbery. But then I consider theft and robbery crime as well.
    Where did I say the officer was doing anything other than driving to the area to look for the guy? All the officers knew was what dispatch told them, that a guy with a gun was running away from the area of the Lakewood Towne Center and that people were chasing him. That’s all they knew. That’s why the officer asked about a victim.

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    Mainsail wrote:
    No, no, no. Does anyone read any more? The only thing the police knew was that a man was seen with a gun and was running. The details that it was a robbery did not come to their attention until after they had him at gunpoint.
    You said in your first sentence that you "heard the beeper come on for a possible armed robbery". Then the armed suspect was seen running away being chased by several subjects. It sounds like the first reportee was not the victim, but saw the commotion and the gun, and probably deduced that it could be a robbery. I don't see a real stretch there.

    If the suspect was originally only grabbing the tip jar, that is a theft. If a weaponwas displayed during the comission ofthis crime, it becomes a robbery.

    Sometimes details come in slowlyin situations like these, but it sounds like the call was originally an allegedrobbery. The Officer may have been talking about the victim seeing the gun, or maybe a citizen who witnessed the robbery, but we can't know that for sure. I think interpreting his quote “...a citizen saw the gun so there was a crime.”literally is a little shortsighted, as there was obviously something more going on at the time.

    Sometimes initially you have to work off of what little info is available, and then as more info flows in you can determine what crime took place (if any). In this case it would be treated as an armed robbery until other facts were known. It also sounds like the initial assessment was the correct one.

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    Mainsail wrote:
    All the officers knew was what dispatch told them, that a guy with a gun was running away from the area of the Lakewood Towne Center and that people were chasing him. That’s all they knew. That’s why the officer asked about a victim.
    Uh....what?

    Just curious here, but what exactly are the LW police supposed to do in this situation? Gun, running away,people were in pursuit of someone. To me I would think that would be ALL they need to assume a crime was commited. It turned out to be a robbery so I say good job on the LWPD's part..

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    I don't know about you, but I'm not going to be chasing someone that I know has a gun.

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    How many are going to miss Mainsail's point? The unidentified cop on the radio knew nothing about what happened. He might have heard the "beep" indicating a possible armed robbery; if so he knew only that one was possible, or that the call had been triggered by a MWAG report combined with a stretch of logic. That's why you investigate. Until you do, you just don't know what happened. Except for the unidentified cop who sounds to me as if he thinks that a man with a gun is a crime in itself. Olsen's brother, was he?

    MD

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    Even though the officer who responded "a citizen saw the gun so there was a crime' was in error it sounds as though LPD acted correctly. A MWG being chased from the mall by several people is certainly an attention getter. I suppose they could have all been out jogging.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    irfner wrote:
    Even though the officer who responded "a citizen saw the gun so there was a crime' was in error it sounds as though LPD acted correctly. A MWG being chased from the mall by several people is certainly an attention getter. I suppose they could have all been out jogging.
    I think you forget that things are not always what they seem. The police know this, that’s why I think the one officer was looking for clarification on what the crime was they were all responding to so fast. A citizen reported a man was being chased. Was he really being chased or merely followed? What if it was one of us, openly carrying- someone harasses us so we walk away- guess what, now you’re being chased! It’s all a matter of perception. The other officer didn’t need any clarification; he decided that if a citizen was armed, a law was being broken.

    JohnnyLaw seems to have understood my point.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    I don't know about you, but I'm not going to be chasing someone that I know has a gun.
    Exactly. That's why I think the officer was trying to figure out what was going on. The radio report didn't seem to make sense.

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    I told you guys that LPD will treat any "man with a gun" as a felony stop. My very good friend and LPD supervisor said this even after my myriad attempts at education using Lonnie's TB's and such, oh, and the RCW. If you are OC and somebody calls, prepare for fun. If you bump a tip jar and in the process expose your CC and somebody calls, prepare for fun. It doesn't matter in Lakewood, the police will get some training.

    Now... If you steal a tip jar and expose your legal or illegalCC or brandish your CC or OC you are a thug and the police will get to work.



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    Mainsail wrote:
    What if it was one of us, openly carrying- someone harasses us so we walk away- guess what, now you’re being chased! It’s all a matter of perception. The other officer didn’t need any clarification; he decided that if a citizen was armed, a law was being broken.

    JohnnyLaw seems to have understood my point.
    So your saying that any one OC is exempt from any report of a supposed crime? I mean buy a supposed, Report of a gun. I think you are barking up the wrong tree here. This report is only what you have interpreted. No one here can back up what you have heard. As you heard it on the HAM. Not to suggest it didn't happen the way you said it, but you are the only one to report it. Like I said before, just cause you OC doesnt mean that police responding to calls makes you a victim. Granted some LEO's overeact, Im giving the benifiet of the doubt to the LWPD..

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    heywoodjablowme wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    What if it was one of us, openly carrying- someone harasses us so we walk away- guess what, now you’re being chased! It’s all a matter of perception. The other officer didn’t need any clarification; he decided that if a citizen was armed, a law was being broken.

    JohnnyLaw seems to have understood my point.
    So your saying that any one OC is exempt from any report of a supposed crime? I mean buy a supposed, Report of a gun. I think you are barking up the wrong tree here. This report is only what you have interpreted. No one here can back up what you have heard. As you heard it on the HAM. Not to suggest it didn't happen the way you said it, but you are the only one to report it. Like I said before, just cause you OC doesnt mean that police responding to calls makes you a victim. Granted some LEO's overeact, Im giving the benifiet of the doubt to the LWPD..
    I don't have a problem with everything else, but don't go saying Mainsail was even possibly lying or telling half-truths. We all understand he's only human and could make a mistake here and there. He's also doing us all a service by keeping us appraised on what he hears over his scanner. I believe we're all capable of accepting something we read on the internet with a grain of salt; fortunately, I trust Mainsail's material to be truthful 'to the best of his knowledge', as I've met him and shaken his hand on many occasions (read: monthly get-togethers). If you know what to look for, it's amazing what you can learn from a man from his handshake (I say man for a reason, as women are not the same when it comes to handshakes, from my experience).
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    just_a_car wrote:
    heywoodjablowme wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    What if it was one of us, openly carrying- someone harasses us so we walk away- guess what, now you’re being chased! It’s all a matter of perception. The other officer didn’t need any clarification; he decided that if a citizen was armed, a law was being broken.

    JohnnyLaw seems to have understood my point.
    So your saying that any one OC is exempt from any report of a supposed crime? I mean buy a supposed, Report of a gun. I think you are barking up the wrong tree here. This report is only what you have interpreted. No one here can back up what you have heard. As you heard it on the HAM. Not to suggest it didn't happen the way you said it, but you are the only one to report it. Like I said before, just cause you OC doesnt mean that police responding to calls makes you a victim. Granted some LEO's overeact, Im giving the benifiet of the doubt to the LWPD..
    I don't have a problem with everything else, but don't go saying Mainsail was even possibly lying or telling half-truths. We all understand he's only human and could make a mistake here and there. He's also doing us all a service by keeping us appraised on what he hears over his scanner. I believe we're all capable of accepting something we read on the internet with a grain of salt; fortunately, I trust Mainsail's material to be truthful 'to the best of his knowledge', as I've met him and shaken his hand on many occasions (read: monthly get-togethers). If you know what to look for, it's amazing what you can learn from a man from his handshake (I say man for a reason, as women are not the same when it comes to handshakes, from my experience).
    I’ve been ignoring him. 20 posts; each one exponentially more trollish and juvenile with absolutely nothing informative or useful in any of them. At his current rate of idiocy, he should completely implode in a few weeks. Hopefully the moderators will delete his account and save us all the grief.

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    Perception is reality, and perception is often jaded by personal interaction that ended badly.

    The juvenile charge from having a screen name suggestive as his, would give an idea of his credability.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Mainsail wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    heywoodjablowme wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    What if it was one of us, openly carrying- someone harasses us so we walk away- guess what, now you’re being chased! It’s all a matter of perception. The other officer didn’t need any clarification; he decided that if a citizen was armed, a law was being broken.

    JohnnyLaw seems to have understood my point.
    So your saying that any one OC is exempt from any report of a supposed crime? I mean buy a supposed, Report of a gun. I think you are barking up the wrong tree here. This report is only what you have interpreted. No one here can back up what you have heard. As you heard it on the HAM. Not to suggest it didn't happen the way you said it, but you are the only one to report it. Like I said before, just cause you OC doesnt mean that police responding to calls makes you a victim. Granted some LEO's overeact, Im giving the benifiet of the doubt to the LWPD..
    I don't have a problem with everything else, but don't go saying Mainsail was even possibly lying or telling half-truths. We all understand he's only human and could make a mistake here and there. He's also doing us all a service by keeping us appraised on what he hears over his scanner. I believe we're all capable of accepting something we read on the internet with a grain of salt; fortunately, I trust Mainsail's material to be truthful 'to the best of his knowledge', as I've met him and shaken his hand on many occasions (read: monthly get-togethers). If you know what to look for, it's amazing what you can learn from a man from his handshake (I say man for a reason, as women are not the same when it comes to handshakes, from my experience).
    I’vemethim. 20 posts; each one exponentially moresmarter andintulectual with absolutely nothing butinformative or useful information. At his current rate of wisdom, he should completelytake overin a few weeks. Hopefully the moderators will deletemy account and save us all the grief.
    21

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    I find no fault in the way the police handled this. In fact if they are going out to investigate an armed robbery and see me walking down the street open carrying, they have reasonable articulable suspicion to detain me, as a matter of law.

    You could be detained and checked out if in the area of a robbery without your weapon.

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    Mainsail I got your point. I understand a man with a gun is not a crime even though some Lakewood Police Officer thinks it is. I think you missed my point. A man running from a mall with others in pursuit is suspicious to say the least. I agree things are not always as they seem thus my analogy to jogging. Perhaps the dispatcher over reacted perhaps not. In any event someone had the good sense to call in and ask what the crime they were responding to was. TheMWG may have been being assaulted or he may have committed some dastardly deed. Or it might have just been a bunch of people out for a run. But they did get a call about it. It sounds like at least one LEO was trying to figure out what was going on before they gotto the sceneand made a bad decision. Good for him, right move.

    Not knowing if the BG was the lone MWG or the group chasing him were the bad guys or all of them or none of them a multi unit response seems reasonable. So other than the LEO who thinks visibly carrying a gun is a crime where did the others go wrong? We don't know the urgency in the voice of the 911 caller or how he described the event to the dispatcher. I am usually pretty tough on LEOs so what am I missing on this one?


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    Okay, someone correct me if I am wrong here. Lakewood cop with limited information to go on, says "A citizen saw the gun so we know it is a crime" This is then taken to mean that anytime a citizen sees an exposed gun, the cops will consider it a criminal act. The cops expect gun=crime? That's how I read it anyway.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Okay, someone correct me if I am wrong here. Lakewood cop with limited information to go on, says "A citizen saw the gun so we know it is a crime" This is then taken to mean that anytime a citizen sees an exposed gun, the cops will consider it a criminal act. The cops expect gun=crime? That's how I read it anyway.
    Exactly.

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