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Thread: AzCDL ACTION ALERT! Vehicle Carry Bill in House committee 2/7/08

  1. #1
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    HB 2389, which removes the reference to vehicles in ARS 13-3102 (misconduct involving weapons),will be heard in the House Judiciary Committee on Thursday, February 7, 2008.

    Current law (ARS 13-3102.F) states that, without a concealed weapons (CCW) permit, it is permissible to carry a weapon or weapons “…in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage that is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, map pocket, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.”

    Unfortunately, in 1994 an Arizona Appellate court decision (State v. Adams) determined that “within a means of transportation” meant it must be obvious under ordinary observation to someone outside the vehicle that there is a weapon inside the vehicle. This created conflicts interpreting the statute. As a result:

    · Wearing a holstered firearm within a vehicle = concealed carry, requiring a CCW permit. But, that same holstered firearm in a map pocket, trunk or glove compartment, accessible by a vehicle’s occupants, does not require a CCW permit.

    · Possessing a concealed weapons permit and a concealed weapon puts other occupants in the vehicle, who do not possess a CCW permit, at risk of arrest because of their proximity to your firearm. Yet, if that same weapon were in a map pocket, trunk, or glove compartment accessible by all the vehicle’s occupants, no crime is committed.

    The proposed language clarifies that it permissible to carry a weapon, visibly or concealed, anywhere within a means of transportation.

    Information on this and other bills can be found at the AzCDL website:

    Please take the time to send a polite note to the committee members, and let them know that you want them to vote HB 2389 out of committee with a recommendation for passage by the full House. You can also use the cut-and-paste letter below. Following the letter are email address lists of the committee members in both semi-colon and comma separated formats. Use the one that is compatible with your email software.

    ================================================== ====

    Subject: Support HB 2389

    Dear Representative:

    The Arizona Citizens Defense League (AzCDL) has informed me that HB 2389 is being considered in the House Judiciary Committee on Thursday, February 7, 2008. I urge you to vote HB 2389 out of committee with a recommendation for passage by the full House.

    As written, current law (ARS 13-3102.F) allows a holstered or cased weapon to be carried “within a means of transportation” or “within a storage compartment, map pocket, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.”

    Unfortunately, in 1994 an Arizona Appellate court (State v. Adams, 189 Ariz. 235, 941 P.2d) determined that “within a means of transportation” meant it must be obvious under ordinary observation to someone outside the vehicle that there is a weapon inside the vehicle. This created conflicts interpreting the statute. As a result:

    · Wearing a holstered firearm within a vehicle can be considered concealed carry, requiring a CCW permit. But, that same holstered firearm in a map pocket, trunk or glove compartment, accessible by any of the vehicle’s occupants, does not require a CCW permit.

    · Possessing a concealed weapons permit and being armed puts other occupants in the vehicle, who do not possess a CCW permit, at risk of arrest because of their proximity to the firearm. Yet, if that same weapon were in a map pocket, trunk or glove compartment accessible by all the vehicle’s occupants, no crime is committed.

    The proposed language clarifies that it permissible to carry a weapon, visibly or concealed, anywhere within a means of transportation.

    Again, I urge you to vote HB 2389 out of committee with a recommendation for passage by the full House.

    Sincerely,
    Your Name
    Street Address
    City, AZ zip-code
    telephone number

    ================================================== =====

    Please be sure to include your name, address, and phone number.

    Below are the email addresses of the committee members in both semi-colon and comma separation formats, along with a simple list of email addresses for those who encounter email address formatting problems. Use the list that is compatible with your email software.

    Semi-colon format:
    efarnsworth@azleg.gov; adriggs@azleg.gov; kadams@azleg.gov; tchabin@azleg.gov; sgallardo@azleg.gov; rcrandall@azleg.gov; bkonopnicki@azleg.gov; ksinema@azleg.gov; bmiranda@azleg.gov; syarbrough@azleg.gov

    Comma format:
    efarnsworth@azleg.gov, adriggs@azleg.gov, kadams@azleg.gov, tchabin@azleg.gov, sgallardo@azleg.gov, rcrandall@azleg.gov, bkonopnicki@azleg.gov, ksinema@azleg.gov, bmiranda@azleg.gov, syarbrough@azleg.gov

    List of members’ email addresses:

    efarnsworth@azleg.gov
    adriggs@azleg.gov
    kadams@azleg.gov
    tchabin@azleg.gov
    sgallardo@azleg.gov
    rcrandall@azleg.gov
    bkonopnicki@azleg.gov
    ksinema@azleg.gov
    bmiranda@azleg.gov
    syarbrough@azleg.gov

    As legislation progresses, we will keep you up to date via these Alerts and at our website.

    These alerts are a project of the Arizona Citizens Defense League (AzCDL), an all volunteer, non-profit, non-partisan grassroots organization. Join today!

    AzCDL – Protecting Your Freedom

    Copyright © 2008 Arizona Citizens Defense League, Inc., all rights reserved.

  2. #2
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    I'm not sure since when it was illegal to open carry a holstered firearm in a vehicle without a permit. I got stopped and the gun wasn't even visible because of the jacket over it but a couple of inches of the holster were. I informed the cop andhe never asked anything about a permit and I made a point that I was actually OCing which he said he wasn't disputing. The law referring to a holster, glove compartment, etc. does not actually say it is illegal if your situation doesn't fall into those categories. It simply says that carrying without a concealed permit doesn't apply in those conditions. Regardless, basically any obvious attempt to open carry a weapon to which a reasonable person would see that you are not trying to conceal it is legal. If the law doesn't say it is illegal, it is legal. That is the way I see it.



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    I don't think the issue is that the law says it's illegal; the issue is that there is case law that makes the statute less than clear. This bill is apprently intended to clarify the law's meaning so some activist judge can't change our firearms law.

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    The case law does make the law unclear. That cop that let you slide with the partially covered holster could have just as easily arrested you (they sometimes teach 50% concealed is illegal in academies). Then there would be a decent chance you would be convicted. At the very minimum it would cost you thousands of dollars and a lot of your time and reputation.

    The proposed law ensures that this kind of shenanigans does not take place w/ guns in the car anymore.

  5. #5
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Dear Mr. XXXXX:

    Thank you for your email and comments concerning HB 2389. I am a
    staunch 2nd
    amendment supporter and defender. As the chair of the Judiciary
    Committee, I
    placed this bill on my agenda because I support it. We have to continue
    to
    defend our constitutional rights against those that work to deny those
    rights.

    Thank you again for your support.

    Eddie Farnsworth
    State Representative
    District 22


    This was just received from an AZ friend whom I had urged to act on this issue! I guess he did. You all have very nice legislators!



    photo by Oleg Volk:

    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    The Arizona Daily Star has thisstory about HB 2389.


  7. #7
    Regular Member ATCer's Avatar
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    Not sure what the status of this bill is in AZ, but it is DEAD in WA!!! :celebrate

  8. #8
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    ATCer wrote:
    Not sure what the status of this bill is in AZ, but it is DEAD in WA!!! :celebrate
    Status is on the AzCDL news page - see the item dated 2/15/08.

    You can keep up to date by subscribing to our Alerts.

    Fred

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