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Thread: Finally got CHP from Fairfax County w/o proving residency

  1. #1
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    Last year I applied for a resident Virginia CHP to the Fairfax County Courthouse, but refused to provide the proof of residency demanded by the Fairfax County process, because it's an extra-legal requirement with no basis in state law. I posted about it at http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/1741.html, but that post seems to have been culled.

    Anyway, long story short, I appealed the denial, hired Richard Gardiner to represent me, and the appeal was denied because I didn't send the hearing request soon enough (I sent it with days to spare, but apparently delays in their handling of it count against you). Mr. Gardiner wrote me an opinion letter explaining why Fairfax can't demand proof of residency, so I made a copy of that letter (with my address redacted) and included it with my new application in place of the proof of residency document.

    That was 47 days ago. I called Deputy Clerk Carol Snow today (who, by the way, is very pleasant to deal with), and she said mine was going into the mail today but I could pick it up in person if I wanted to. Now I've picked it up, and I no longer have to worry that carrying on my Florida non-resident permit might get me hassled by the local LEOs. :celebrate

    I'm glad to finally have the permit, but in a way I'm disappointed, because now I can't appeal to the court of appeals and get a binding decision to put a stop to this practice. Anyway, if anyone else is applying for a CHP in Fairfax County and wants to buck the extra-legal proof of residency requirement, I can provide a copy of the letter I used.

    Thanks to Mike for his advice throughout this process.


  2. #2
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    Good job - if everybody keeps this up, FFX County will eventually back down completely!

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    To be fair toRichard Gardiner, its probably better to direct folks to him for their own opinion letter. Mr. Gardiner makes his living doing this sort of thing.

    If there was ever an attorney who deserved our support, itsRichard Gardiner.

    Unless, of course, he already told you to feel free to spreadthe letteraround.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  4. #4
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    Citizen wrote:
    To be fair toRichard Gardiner, its probably better to direct folks to him for their own opinion letter. Mr. Gardiner makes his living doing this sort of thing.

    If there was ever an attorney who deserved our support, itsRichard Gardiner.

    Unless, of course, he already told you to feel free to spreadthe letteraround.
    That's a fair point, and I have an email in to him about it. That said, getting this letter from him wasn't cheap, and given how easy it is to capitulate and give the county what they demand, I don't see alot of applicants going the Fight the Man route.


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    Mr. Gardiner had no objection, so copies of the letter are available upon request.

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    Excellent!! I was wondering about this the other day. Not many people would have went through the hassle you did. Thank you for being a good American.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7
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    Apocryph wrote: "Anyway, if anyone else is applying for a CHP in Fairfax County and wants to buck the extra-legal proof of residency requirement, I can provide a copy of the letter I used."

    My wife Deborah sure could use a copy of that letter ASAP. Please e-mail a .pdf copy of it directly to her at: FXMusicTeacher@aol.com

    Or, if you can't get it scanned, then let her know that by e-mail, and she'll send you our mailing address.

    Thanks.

    --Mark

  8. #8
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    Interesting how it just happened to be ready when you called to check on it. Was the ink still wet when you picked it up?
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    mobeewan wrote:
    Interesting how it just happened to be ready when you called to check on it. Was the ink still wet when you picked it up?
    Hehe. It's hard to say. Deputy Clerk Snow told me they had a pile of them to mail out; I suspect the more likely explanation is FFX county doesn't care about the statutory 45 day requirement, and will get to them when they get to them. The issue date on my permit is 31-Jan-08, which is 41 days after I applied. I went to pick it up 7-Feb-08, and it was about to be mailed.

    This is all the more reason for applicants to count the days and demand the temporary permit after 45 days, if for no other reason than they'll dig out your already-approved permit and give it to you.

  10. #10
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    markand wrote:
    Apocryph wrote: "Anyway, if anyone else is applying for a CHP in Fairfax County and wants to buck the extra-legal proof of residency requirement, I can provide a copy of the letter I used."

    My wife Deborah sure could use a copy of that letter ASAP. Please e-mail a .pdf copy of it directly to her at: FXMusicTeacher@aol.com

    Or, if you can't get it scanned, then let her know that by e-mail, and she'll send you our mailing address.

    Thanks.

    --Mark
    Sure Mark. I'll run it through my scanner this weekend.


  11. #11
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    Ok, I've posted the letter in PDF and PNG form. Be warned both are rather large (10MB total), as I didn't bother scaling down the scanned image or tweaking the compression.

    The links are at http://apocryph.org/fairfax_county_g...hp_application


  12. #12
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    apocryph wrote:
    SNIPDeputy Clerk Snow told me they had a pile of them to mail out; I suspect the more likely explanation is FFX county doesn't care about the statutory 45 day requirement, and will get to them when they get to them. The issue date on my permit is 31-Jan-08, which is 41 days after I applied. I went to pick it up 7-Feb-08, and it was about to be mailed.

    This is all the more reason for applicants to count the days and demand the temporary permit after 45 days, if for no other reason than they'll dig out your already-approved permit and give it to you.
    There is a more down to earth reason, I suspect.

    Fairfax County processed something like 1600 CHP applications in 2006. When I checked in November 07, they were already at 1900, or on trend for 1900 for the year, I forget which. Thats an awful lot of CHP's to process.

    I've talked to Carol Snowa number of times. She's always been very helpful and pleasant, taking the time to answerquestions,types of questionsI'm sureits not in her job descriptionto answer. Some even required a little research.

    I have no evidence that Carol Snow or Officer Tate are deliberately slowing the process unnecessarily.

    Lets be glad the General Assembly gave a solution, the 45 day requirement. According to 18.2-308(D), theclerk is supposed to send acopy of the application to the applicant to serve as a permit. Iftheclerk already has the permit approved and written, and can't get to it to mail it, I don't see how she can send the application.

    I suspect, if anything, its time to ask the judge to get an increased budget for the clerk's office so they can process things through in time.

    Heck, maybe a few 2A supporters who are retired can volunteer to help stuff and stamp envelopes and so forth to clear back ups.




    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  13. #13
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    Citizen wrote:
    apocryph wrote:
    SNIPDeputy Clerk Snow told me they had a pile of them to mail out; I suspect the more likely explanation is FFX county doesn't care about the statutory 45 day requirement, and will get to them when they get to them. The issue date on my permit is 31-Jan-08, which is 41 days after I applied. I went to pick it up 7-Feb-08, and it was about to be mailed.

    This is all the more reason for applicants to count the days and demand the temporary permit after 45 days, if for no other reason than they'll dig out your already-approved permit and give it to you.
    There is a more down to earth reason, I suspect.

    Fairfax County processed something like 1600 CHP applications in 2006. When I checked in November 07, they were already at 1900, or on trend for 1900 for the year, I forget which. Thats an awful lot of CHP's to process.

    I've talked to Carol Snowa number of times. She's always been very helpful and pleasant, taking the time to answerquestions,types of questionsI'm sureits not in her job descriptionto answer. Some even required a little research.

    I have no evidence that Carol Snow or Officer Tate are deliberately slowing the process unnecessarily.

    Lets be glad the General Assembly gave a solution, the 45 day requirement. According to 18.2-308(D), theclerk is supposed to send acopy of the application to the applicant to serve as a permit. Iftheclerk already has the permit approved and written, and can't get to it to mail it, I don't see how she can send the application.

    I suspect, if anything, its time to ask the judge to get an increased budget for the clerk's office so they can process things through in time.

    Heck, maybe a few 2A supporters who are retired can volunteer to help stuff and stamp envelopes and so forth to clear back ups.



    I mostly agree. I was saying I don't think they were holding up my permit and printed it out once I called; I suspect they were legitimately behind and that's why it wasn't mailed yet.

    I also want to reiterate my postive remarks about Deputy Clerk Snow; I have no reason to doubt that she makes a good-faith effort to discharge her duties with what she's been given. At the same time, I very much doubt the County powers that be care how often they issue permits within the 45 day period, or are willing to invest more money to improve their compliance rate, hence my remarks to that effect.

    So if you're applying for a permit and it's not done in 45 days, exercise your rights and politely, respectfully speak with Carol Snow or her staff about your permit. When I started this whole thing I was spoiling for a fight, but I found the CHP desk staff to be much too professional and helpful to fight with



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