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Thread: new city policy

  1. #1
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    I just was handed some changes to the cities personnel policy. Top of the list is a NO FIREARM addmendment. For everbodies safety no weapons are allowed on city property, in city owned vehicles or while on city time.

    I'm not sure but this seems to go against state law Title 22, sec1, subsec 111:

    § 111. Limitation on firearm regulations. The municipal governments shall enact no law, ordinance or regulation prohibiting, restricting or licensing the ownership, transfer, possession or transportation of firearms or components of firearms or ammunition except that the discharge of a firearm may be regulated; provided any law, ordinance or regulation incorporates the justification defenses as found in Title 11. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to invalidate municipal ordinances existing before July 4, 1985, and any ordinance enacted after July 4, 1985, is hereby repealed. Notwithstanding the provisions of this section to the contrary, the City of Wilmington may, in addition to the nature and extent of regulation permitted by this section, enact any law or ordinance governing the possession or concealment of a paintball gun within its corporate limits as it deems necessary to protect the public safety. (65 Del. Laws, c. 278, § 1; 74 Del. Laws, c. 280, § 1.)



    Since personnel policy is chapter 40 of the cities municpal code it looks like it violates the above law. I might be reading this wrong but since chapter 40 is part of the cities code this new(not listed on web site) is illegal.
    Listed below is the link to the city code;

    http://www.municode.com/resources/ga...1715&sid=8



    Anyone else think this is an illegal policy. If personnel policy is part of the city code and it's later then July 4,1985 then it souldn't be allowed. Or repealed.




  2. #2
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    stephpd wrote:
    I just was handed some changes to the cities personnel policy. Top of the list is a NO FIREARM addmendment. For everbodies safety no weapons are allowed on city property, in city owned vehicles or while on city time.

    I'm not sure but this seems to go against state law Title 22, sec1, subsec 111:

    § 111. Limitation on firearm regulations. The municipal governments shall enact no law, ordinance or regulation prohibiting, restricting or licensing the ownership, transfer, possession or transportation of firearms or components of firearms or ammunition except that the discharge of a firearm may be regulated; provided any law, ordinance or regulation incorporates the justification defenses as found in Title 11. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to invalidate municipal ordinances existing before July 4, 1985, and any ordinance enacted after July 4, 1985, is hereby repealed. Notwithstanding the provisions of this section to the contrary, the City of Wilmington may, in addition to the nature and extent of regulation permitted by this section, enact any law or ordinance governing the possession or concealment of a paintball gun within its corporate limits as it deems necessary to protect the public safety. (65 Del. Laws, c. 278, § 1; 74 Del. Laws, c. 280, § 1.)



    Since personnel policy is chapter 40 of the cities municpal code it looks like it violates the above law. I might be reading this wrong but since chapter 40 is part of the cities code this new(not listed on web site) is illegal.
    Listed below is the link to the city code;

    http://www.municode.com/resources/ga...1715&sid=8



    Anyone else think this is an illegal policy. If personnel policy is part of the city code and it's later then July 4,1985 then it souldn't be allowed. Or repealed.


    hmmm... for your safety city personel can't have guns on city property? but I can? great thinking. I wonder, did they have an exception for city cops?

  3. #3
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    Able to print the exact text of the new regulation? Any numbers or anything along those lines that go with it? Who is enforcing the policy? From whom it came down?

  4. #4
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    Yes there are exemptions for police and security. One of the problems that I have is that the pages that were handed out to us don't match up with the municipal code. I'll do my best to type in everthing that is on the page for weapons.

    City of Wimington, Delaware
    Personnel Policy Manual

    policy 107.1 weapons


    Purpose:
    To provide a work environment that is safe and void of weapons that may be used to create hostile and /or violent situations.

    Policy:Despite some laws that allow individuals to carry weapons in public, the City of Wilmington prohibits anyone from possessing or carrying weapons of any kind on City of Wilmngton property, in City-owned vehicles, or while on City time. This includes:

    any form of weapon or explosive;

    all firearms;and

    all illegal knives or knives with blades that are more than six(6) inches in length.

    If an emloyee is unsure whether an item is covered by this policy, please contact the Personnel Department. Employees are responsible for making sure that any item they possess while in the work place is not prohibited by this policy. Police officers, security guards, and other individuals who have been given concent by the organization to carry a weapon on the property will be allowed to do so.

    While the organization has a policy prohibiting weapons, nothing in this policy shall be construed as creating any duty or obligation on the part of the organization to take any actions beyond those required of an employer by existing law.

    This policy shall not apply to sworn personnel authorized by state law to carry weapons in the normal performance of their duties.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    supercedes approved effective date approval(s) Administrative Board
    12/18/07 12/19/07 Monica Gonzalez-Gillespie

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Like I said the numbers don't match up with the municpal code. Our policy book includes most of the municipal code but uses a different numbering system. Nothing lists as under Chapter 40 but they are very similar in content.

    What gets me is the 6" fixed blade knives are allowed(deadly weapon) kept in desk(no CCDW) but if I have a CCDW I can't carry on City property even in my off hours. Bad laws written by people that have no idea whta state law is and they aren't lawyers.

  5. #5
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    Sounds like it's bunk to me... If you actually google the woman's name, she's been in the center of more than one lawsuit with regards to depriving employees of their rights.

    I'd look into this further if I were you.

  6. #6
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    Somebody or a union needs to pay a lawyer for research and a legal opinion - there might be some other statutory authority for state/local agencies to limit employee on duty weapon carriage.

  7. #7
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    Doing a quick search of the Wilmington code for the term "Firearms" doesn't yield a result of anything near resembling a resitriction on employees carrying while on the job.

  8. #8
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    I did the search for weapons as well. Looks to me that the state law preempts any ordinances or municipal codes. Not even sure if the 'Personnel Policy' is part of the municipal code. I know that they are very similar but the numbering systems are different.

    What bothers me the most is that I'd be violating the code if I were CCDW after hours at Rodney Square or any other city park. That and the use of the word organization throughout the policy. Sounds like the mob or CIA.

    Personnally I give no weight to their policy. Contradicts state law and gives exemptions for some deadly weapons but excludes others.

    Not sure if this nonsense ever made it across the desk of the legal department.

    I just stay away from uptown.

    I'll google her name and see what I can find.

  9. #9
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    Not being a lawyer and having an active imagination I was hoping of some thoughts on this line of the city policy.



    While the organization has a policy prohibiting weapons, nothing in this policy shall be construed as creating any duty or obligation on the part of the organization to take any actions beyond those required of an employer by existing law.



    My take on this is:

    1) Don't ask / Don't tell It's not our problem until somebody makes it our problem and then expect disciplinary action.

    2) We have a policy that is meaningless since existing law gives no weight to this policy but we discourage violating this policy.

    3) Don't do something really stupid with the weapon and we won't do anything stupid to you.

    4) It's not our job to protect you so if you need a gun get a permit just don't let us see it.

    5) We don't like guns. If you want to kill the person down the hall take the steak knife.

    6) City/County building is gun free so should the rest of you out on the street doing your job without the armed security and metal detectors to protect you. Good Luck!.

  10. #10
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    Looks to me like someone should send Ms. Gonzalez-Gillespie a memo that she can not make up her own rules. State law specifically states municipalities can not create their own laws in this matter. Send her the link to the law. Next time she gets a wild hair, she needs to consult the law department before attempting to enact her rules.

  11. #11
    Regular Member dave_in_delaware's Avatar
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    stephpd wrote:
    5) We don't like guns. If you want to kill the person down the hall take the steak knife.
    Haha!!! I'd prefer to use my tea cup. (anyone know what movie that is from?)
    Dave
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  12. #12
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    Tombstone? Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday. That was some fancy handling of a tea cup.:what:

  13. #13
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Chronicles of Riddick!

    "You gonna kill me with your soup cup?"

    "Actually, it's a tea cup."

  14. #14
    Regular Member dave_in_delaware's Avatar
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    stephpd wrote:
    Tombstone? Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday. That was some fancy handling of a tea cup.:what:
    I never saw that movie, but that's not what I was thinking of...


    Decoligny wrote:
    Chronicles of Riddick!

    "You gonna kill me with your soup cup?"

    "Actually, it's a tea cup."
    Ding ding ding ding.. we have a winner. I like that movie (my fiancee loves it).

    "It's an animal thing."

    Sorry for the hijack.. carry on.....
    Dave
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  15. #15
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    dave_in_delaware wrote:
    stephpd wrote:
    Tombstone? Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday. That was some fancy handling of a tea cup.:what:
    I never saw that movie, but that's not what I was thinking of...


    Wyatt Earp was sitting at the card table, doc standing next to him. One of the Clanton brothers pulls out his gun and does some fancy spinning of the gun only to be copied by Doc with a metal cup, not sure if it was for tea. Goes on back and forth for a couple of minutes.

    Not sure how accurate the whole story follows the real story but it was worth watching.

    My favorite line in the movie was from Doc Holiday talking to the Clanton's outside the bar. " I'll be your huckleberry."
    Much better movie of the greatest gunfight then the one with Kevin Costner.


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