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Thread: Open carry laws VA dispute

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    Ok so some of you might alredy know I am a student at NOVA annandale campus. My understanding of the firearm laws are pretty accurate from what I think. My professor is a very intelligent man and worked for the Federal Government as a Special Agent for over two decades. Although he is not 100% sure he is pretty certian I am mistaken. My knowledge of this matter is..

    That anyone of the age of 18 or over may openly carry a firearm as long as its not stated it is now allowed. I.E post office, police station, etc. Also as long as he has not convicted a felony.

    A permit is not required for open carry as long as the person is over the age of 18.

    Not 100% sure on this one but, a handgun is not registered to the buyer specifically.

    Anyone under the age of 21 may not puchass a handgun or handgun ammo.

    The penalty for conceal carrying a handgun is a misdameanor.

    Local and state law enforcement can not arrest someone of the age of 18 or older for openly carrying a handgun that does not disguise its true nature.

    I wish today I had the statues with me, but I could only display my NRA ID. This is not an argument more of a discussion. I know a Federal agent might be able to charge me with a firearm violation at best, but I'm not sure what the penalty. So basically I'm asking some of you guys if you could show me all the statues regarding my issues so I can show him next class. I don't want to rub his face in it, just want to inform him of the local statues. So any help guys? Thanks I know you guys here and will have an answer to this question so, thanks in advance.



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    That's a pretty tall order.

    You may not realize it but you're asking for a good bit of research time.

    The quickest solution is to get a copy of a book called, Virginia Gun Owners Guide by Bloomfield press. Its got pretty much every statute a gun owner would want to know. Gilberts Small Arms in Lorton has them. If you can't get there easily PM me with your location, I'll try to help you. I think I might evenhave a second copy if I haven't givenitaway yet.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Amazon.com has it.

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    Sometimes it's easier if you look at the top of the forums page for all the "basic" stuff. You might find that someone has done much of the work for you, and even put it in a convenient form.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum61/3356.html prints out into something you can fold and stick in your pocket or wallet.

    Make an extra copy for your prof. Rerad your copy first, so you can correct some of the errors below:

    That anyone of the age of 18 or over may openly carry a firearm as long as its not stated it is now allowed. I.E post office questionable , police station wrong!, etc. Also as long as he has not been convicted of a felony.

    A permit is not required for open carry as long as the person is over the age of 18. correct

    Not 100% sure on this one but, a handgun is not registered to the buyer specifically.Righty-O! Firearms are not registered at all.

    Anyone under the age of 21 may not puchass a handgun wrongor handgun ammo correct.

    The penalty for conceal carrying a handgun is a misdameanor. first offense

    Local and state law enforcement can not arrest someone of the age of 18 or older for openly carrying a handgun that does not disguise its true nature. wrong - you can be arrested for not violating the law. You should not be convicted if there was no violation of law. (I know - technical detail. but the devil is in the details.) Bonus points if you ID the quote by source & speaker.


    stay safe.

    skidmark
    edited to clean up formatting
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    § 18.2-308.7It shall be unlawful for any person under 18 years of age to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm anywhere in the Commonwealth. . . (Read that backwards, and it says anyone* over 18 can possess a handgun.)

    *Muststill meetall other requirements to possess any firearm.

    § 18.2-309 . . .B. If any person sells, barters, gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, to any minor a handgun, having good cause to believe him to be a minor, such person shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. This subsection shall not apply to any transfer made between family members or for the purpose of engaging in a sporting event or activity. (You can buyor receive asa gift ahandgun from a family member.)

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    skidmark wrote:
    Anyone under the age of 21 may not puchass a handgun wrong...
    I was of the understanding that you must be 21 to legally buy a handgun, but you can be 18 and legally possess a handgun (i.e. it was gifted to you).

    edit: VApatriot got to it first =)

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    You can buy from a private seller if you are 18+; 21+ to purchase from an FFL

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    I have a very GOOD friend who is a retired FBI Special Agent. He and I started discussing Virginia gun laws and, believe me, he had no idea what the Virginia laws were. He didn't even know you could carry in state/local government buildings and that pre-emption is the rule in Virginia. Do your homework and good luck!The Virginia Gun Owners Guide, available at Amazon, is a great reference book, too.

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    cmg266 wrote:
    Ok so some of you might alredy know I am a student at NOVA annandale campus. My understanding of the firearm laws are pretty accurate from what I think. My professor is a very intelligent man and worked for the Federal Government as a Special Agent for over two decades. Although he is not 100% sure he is pretty certian I am mistaken. My knowledge of this matter is..

    That anyone of the age of 18 or over may openly carry a firearm as long as its not stated it is now allowed. I.E post office, police station, etc. Also as long as he has not convicted a felony.

    A permit is not required for open carry as long as the person is over the age of 18.

    Not 100% sure on this one but, a handgun is not registered to the buyer specifically.

    Anyone under the age of 21 may not puchass a handgun or handgun ammo.

    The penalty for conceal carrying a handgun is a misdameanor.

    Local and state law enforcement can not arrest someone of the age of 18 or older for openly carrying a handgun that does not disguise its true nature.

    I wish today I had the statues with me, but I could only display my NRA ID. This is not an argument more of a discussion. I know a Federal agent might be able to charge me with a firearm violation at best, but I'm not sure what the penalty. So basically I'm asking some of you guys if you could show me all the statues regarding my issues so I can show him next class. I don't want to rub his face in it, just want to inform him of the local statues. So any help guys? Thanks I know you guys here and will have an answer to this question so, thanks in advance.

    Basically what everyone is saying in so many posts is this:

    That anyone of the age of 18 or over may openly carry a firearm as long as its not stated it is now allowed. I.E post office, police station, etc. Also as long as he has not convicted a felony.

    Anyone over 18 can OC anywhere that you can CC (Cept restaurants that serve alcohol, then you must OC) so long as you are not prohibited legally from owning a gun (i.e. felon, wife beater, druggie, etc.)

    A permit is not required for open carry as long as the person is over the age of 18.

    A permit is not required for anyone to OC, period. 18-100, You cant get a permit anyways until your 21 so you cant be required to have one to OC.

    Not 100% sure on this one but, a handgun is not registered to the buyer specifically.

    Guns are not registered at all.

    Anyone under the age of 21 may not puchass a handgun or handgun ammo.

    Only 21+ can buy from an FFL dealer, but 18+ can buy from a private seller, but only 21+ can buy handgun ammo.

    The penalty for conceal carrying a handgun is a misdameanor.

    True, and as skidmark said, first offense.

    Local and state law enforcement can not arrest someone of the age of 18 or older for openly carrying a handgun that does not disguise its true nature.

    No they cant. The DA has said that OC in and of itself is not means to stop someone (terry stop, wikipedia it.) or arrest someone. However if you are, you stand to sue the Police Dept for wrongful arrest so long as you werent doing anything else wrong.


  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    The VA Gun Laws book is good BUTremember the amount of time it takes a book to be researched and published.

    Be sure to check out changes.

    In Virginia, laws generally change 1 July, after a Jan-March legislative session. Make certain you verify what you read in a book.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    cmg266 wrote:
    Ok so some of you might alredy know I am a student at NOVA annandale campus. My understanding of the firearm laws are pretty accurate from what I think. My professor is a very intelligent man and worked for the Federal Government as a Special Agent for over two decades. Although he is not 100% sure he is pretty certian I am mistaken.
    Send your professor the link to OCDO and ask him to cite any Virginia or federal statute making OC at 18 a crime in Virginia as a general matter.

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    Great info guys. I appreciate it. I'll bring in the appropiate information to him next class. I dont think it was that he knew that he knew the law he just is a Fed guy so he didn't take much time to learn state/local. This will be great thanks.

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    Mike wrote:
    cmg266 wrote:
    Ok so some of you might alredy know I am a student at NOVA annandale campus. My understanding of the firearm laws are pretty accurate from what I think. My professor is a very intelligent man and worked for the Federal Government as a Special Agent for over two decades. Although he is not 100% sure he is pretty certian I am mistaken.
    Send your professor the link to OCDO and ask him to cite any Virginia or federal statute making OC at 18 a crime in Virginia as a general matter.
    Mike, recently I said almost the same thing to a cop during a casual conversation in a gun shop.

    His response: " You have to remember the law is only a guide. Just because there is no specific law on the books, doesn't mean you aren't doing anything illegal that you can be arrested for."

    Seriously, he actually said that.

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    Mike wrote:
    Send your professor the link to OCDO and ask him to cite any Virginia or federal statute making OC at 18 a crime in Virginia as a general matter.
    This is the tactic I like too. WHen a doubter states something is illegal (that you know is not), demand they source the law to back up their claim.



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    jack wrote:
    Mike, recently I said almost the same thing to a cop during a casual conversation in a gun shop.

    His response: " You have to remember the law is only a guide. Just because there is no specific law on the books, doesn't mean you aren't doing anything illegal that you can be arrested for."

    Seriously, he actually said that.
    And he's right. You can be arrested.

    Of course, you can't be convicted for breaking a law that doesn't exist, and a few of these "arrests" will get that officer a reputation he probably doesn't want to have.

    Fortunately, there are only a few of this type of officer. The majority earned their high-school education.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Tess wrote:
    jack wrote:
    Mike, recently I said almost the same thing to a cop during a casual conversation in a gun shop.

    His response: " You have to remember the law is only a guide. Just because there is no specific law on the books, doesn't mean you aren't doing anything illegal that you can be arrested for."

    Seriously, he actually said that.
    And he's right. You can be arrested.

    SNIP ...a few of these "arrests" will get that officer a reputation he probably doesn't want to have.
    And we citizens can helpany officer like this startaquiring said reputation right away by firing off a complaint whenever we hear such. Raisethe standard.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    DoubleR wrote:
    I have a very GOOD friend who is a retired FBI Special Agent. He and I started discussing Virginia gun laws and, believe me, he had no idea what the Virginia laws were. He didn't even know you could carry in state/local government buildings and that pre-emption is the rule in Virginia. Do your homework and good luck!The Virginia Gun Owners Guide, available at Amazon, is a great reference book, too.
    I noticed recently that Bloomfield Press posts updates to the laws covered in their books on their website, www.gunlaws.com.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  18. #18
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    Citizen wrote:
    Tess wrote:
    jack wrote:
    Mike, recently I said almost the same thing to a cop during a casual conversation in a gun shop.

    His response: " You have to remember the law is only a guide. Just because there is no specific law on the books, doesn't mean you aren't doing anything illegal that you can be arrested for."

    Seriously, he actually said that.
    And he's right. You can be arrested.

    SNIP ...a few of these "arrests" will get that officer a reputation he probably doesn't want to have.
    And we citizens can helpany officer like this startaquiring said reputation right away by firing off a complaint whenever we hear such. Raisethe standard.
    Personally I would never consider just letting such an action of an LEO go by. The revenge side of me would want to make him pay dearly for his errors. One of my strongest pet peeves is police who think and act as though we are their subjects and subodinates when in fact, we are their bosses. It is through our authority that government and all of its agencies, police included, exist. It really gets me when the tail wags the dog.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    SNIP Personally I would never consider just letting such an action of an LEO go by. The revenge side of me would want to make him pay dearly for his errors.
    May I respectfully submit making the complaintfrom the viewpoint of helping the police police themselves?

    We should go back to the thread topic.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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