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Thread: Washington Arms Collector show

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    Rules of the Road



    1. There will be no loaded firearms, magazines, or speedloaders in the building, either on the tables or on one’s person, with the exception of law enforcement and private security officers under contract with WAC.






    Just wondering if anyone else was going, im not gonna be able to make the Vancouver meet but im planning on 'buying a ticket to the gun show' instead.





    Marcus

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Nope. They refuse to respect my right to carry, I choose not to participate in their show.

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Enough rules there to choke a horse.
    Any member whose attempted purchase of a firearm at a gathering of members is denied by NICS is immediately suspended and must surrender his or her badge forthwith.
    All I can think of is that scene from "Blazing Saddles", "Badges, we don't need no stinking badges.....


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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Before the attacks begin:

    I really don’t have time today to write a long eloquent piece on why I feel so insulted by a firearms show that bans my firearm, but I’ll touch on this one.

    The WAC shows do not allow me to carry my firearm because of what someone else might do. Apparently there are fools out there that do not know how to properly handle a firearm and thus are a danger to themselves and others. I choose not to participate because I think there is something morally wrong with selling a deadly weapon to a group of people who you believe, and admit, are too incompetent to safely own them.

    If I were selling you a gun from my private collection and you showed up drunk or were displaying characteristics of a person of diminished mental capacity, I would refuse to sell my gun to you. If WAC feels that some of their members are lacking enough intelligence to safely carry/handle/use the very product they intend to supply to them, they are demonstrating a shortsighted hypocrisy that is detrimental to future firearms owners.

    Wrong is wrong.



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    Haven't we already beat this one to death?

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...;highlight=wac not to mention the references in several other threads that led to this discussion.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    M1Gunr wrote:
    Enough rules there to choke a horse.
    Any member whose attempted purchase of a firearm at a gathering of members is denied by NICS is immediately suspended and must surrender his or her badge forthwith.
    All I can think of is that scene from "Blazing Saddles", "Badges, we don't need no stinking badges.....

    I agree with your assessment of the quantity of rules but your quote source is incorrect. It was from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

    BTW, if the transfer is denied, and it because the attempted purchaser is a felon or ineligible to own a firearm why shouldn't an association of Gun Owner/Collector's be allowed to cancel the membership?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    amlevin wrote:
    M1Gunr wrote:
    Enough rules there to choke a horse.
    Any member whose attempted purchase of a firearm at a gathering of members is denied by NICS is immediately suspended and must surrender his or her badge forthwith.
    All I can think of is that scene from "Blazing Saddles", "Badges, we don't need no stinking badges.....

    I agree with your assessment of the quantity of rules but your quote source is incorrect. It was from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

    BTW, if the transfer is denied, and it because the attempted purchaser is a felon or ineligible to own a firearm why shouldn't an association of Gun Owner/Collector's be allowed to cancel the membership?
    That's not what it says. It says if you are denied you are gone, regardless of the reason. It could be for anything and not crime related. WAC won't even discuss their two faced rules.

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Bear hit it on the head. I have a good friend that's also a responsible gun owner that I was with at Big 5 as he was going to purchase an Mosin Nagant m44 on sale there. He was denied.

    Not because he was a felon. (which he's not)

    Not because he had a Domestic Violence conviction. (which he doesn't)

    Not because he was a drug addict. (which he's not)

    Not even because he wrote anything wrong or flase on the application. (which he didn't)

    He was denied because he wrote his current address as the apartment he's now in, which is in the same complex, but a different apartment number, as the one on his driver's license. Because they didn't match, they denied him. The Big 5 clerk told him he had to get his license renewed with the new address to purchase the firearm.

    If he had tried that at a WAC show, he would have his membership suspended... is that right and/or fair?...
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    amlevin wrote:
    M1Gunr wrote:
    Enough rules there to choke a horse.
    Any member whose attempted purchase of a firearm at a gathering of members is denied by NICS is immediately suspended and must surrender his or her badge forthwith.
    All I can think of is that scene from "Blazing Saddles", "Badges, we don't need no stinking badges.....

    I agree with your assessment of the quantity of rules but your quote source is incorrect. It was from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

    BTW, if the transfer is denied, and it because the attempted purchaser is a felon or ineligible to own a firearm why shouldn't an association of Gun Owner/Collector's be allowed to cancel the membership?
    That's not what it says. It says if you are denied you are gone, regardless of the reason. It could be for anything and not crime related. WAC won't even discuss their two faced rules.
    It does not say that at all. It says that the membership shall be suspended and that the suspension shall terminate upon the reversal of the NICS denial.

    Doesn't seem to be a two faced rule to me. You have the oppurtunity to reverse the suspension. Besides that it is not WAC's fault that NICS has issued a denial.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    amlevin wrote:
    M1Gunr wrote:
    Enough rules there to choke a horse.
    Any member whose attempted purchase of a firearm at a gathering of members is denied by NICS is immediately suspended and must surrender his or her badge forthwith.
    All I can think of is that scene from "Blazing Saddles", "Badges, we don't need no stinking badges.....

    I agree with your assessment of the quantity of rules but your quote source is incorrect. It was from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

    BTW, if the transfer is denied, and it because the attempted purchaser is a felon or ineligible to own a firearm why shouldn't an association of Gun Owner/Collector's be allowed to cancel the membership?
    That's not what it says. It says if you are denied you are gone, regardless of the reason. It could be for anything and not crime related. WAC won't even discuss their two faced rules.
    It does not say that at all. It says that the membership shall be suspended and that the suspension shall terminate upon the reversal of the NICS denial.

    Doesn't seem to be a two faced rule to me. You have the oppurtunity to reverse the suspension. Besides that it is not WAC's fault that NICS has issued a denial.
    The problem is you are guilty inWAC's eyes without any due process or even a hearing and NICS isn't perfect, not even close.WACis as two faced as the government.WAC sucks and even when wrong will not apologize, I know from two episodes with them.

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    But aren't you guilty in the eyes of a dealer if you get a NICS denial? I think the reason they suspend you is because they only sell to card carrying members. If you get denied they remove the ability for you to purchase from a seller that does not do a NICS check until they know you are OK to purchase. I really see no difference. I am not saying that WAC may not go overboard but I would imagine they do all they can to ensure sales of firearms are to only people that are legal to own them.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    I understand the no loaded guns rule. Could be a insurance issue, could also be akin to a 'cold range' rule. Regardless, I have no issue with that rule.



    I despise the fact that a non-member cannot go to a show and purchase a firearm. It's a WASTE OF A SPACE gun show. We might as well not have any gun shows in the state, if that's the kind of rule that they need to be 'acceptable.'



    So imho WAC sucks as a gun show. They may do some good politically, but as a gun show they suck ass.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    It would appear to me that they are merely trying to keep firearms out of the hands of those that are ineligible to possess them. Of course we could take the tack that nobody should question any sale of a firearm, regardless of the party's background (or the inability to determine it), is wrong. Then we merely give the Anti's more ammunition when it comes to passing more regulations.

    If one does not like WAC, and their regulations, don't join. I don't like the rules and regulations of several clubs out there. Consequently I don't belong to them. I don't deny them the right to have those rules though.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Dave_pro2a, I do know they put out the political edition of the Gun News newsletter, but I didn't see any representative from them at either of the Senate Higher Education Committee meetings that we went to. The NRA, Hunters Association, and CCRKBA all showed to both and testified. I was highly disappointed and is making me question whether or not I should renew my membership that lapsed at the end of the year. Especially since finding "deals" at the shows just doesn't happen anymore. Any deals to be had are either at Big 5 for Mosins or online.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    amlevin wrote:
    It would appear to me that they are merely trying to keep firearms out of the hands of those that are ineligible to possess them. Of course we could take the tack that nobody should question any sale of a firearm, regardless of the party's background (or the inability to determine it), is wrong. Then we merely give the Anti's more ammunition when it comes to passing more regulations.

    If one does not like WAC, and their regulations, don't join. I don't like the rules and regulations of several clubs out there. Consequently I don't belong to them. I don't deny them the right to have those rules though.
    +1
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    amlevin wrote:
    M1Gunr wrote:
    Enough rules there to choke a horse.
    Any member whose attempted purchase of a firearm at a gathering of members is denied by NICS is immediately suspended and must surrender his or her badge forthwith.
    All I can think of is that scene from "Blazing Saddles", "Badges, we don't need no stinking badges.....

    I agree with your assessment of the quantity of rules but your quote source is incorrect. It was from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

    BTW, if the transfer is denied, and it because the attempted purchaser is a felon or ineligible to own a firearm why shouldn't an association of Gun Owner/Collector's be allowed to cancel the membership?
    It was also a scene in Blazing Saddles.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    amlevin wrote:
    It would appear to me that they are merely trying to keep firearms out of the hands of those that are ineligible to possess them. Of course we could take the tack that nobody should question any sale of a firearm, regardless of the party's background (or the inability to determine it), is wrong. Then we merely give the Anti's more ammunition when it comes to passing more regulations.

    If one does not like WAC, and their regulations, don't join. I don't like the rules and regulations of several clubs out there. Consequently I don't belong to them. I don't deny them the right to have those rules though.
    Yes, they come across as very "anti-gun show loop-hole," which is absolute BS.

    With pro-gunners like them... who needs anti-gunners.

    They care about ther membership sales, that's it.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    just_a_car wrote:
    Dave_pro2a, I do know they put out the political edition of the Gun News newsletter, but I didn't see any representative from them at either of the Senate Higher Education Committee meetings that we went to. The NRA, Hunters Association, and CCRKBA all showed to both and testified. I was highly disappointed and is making me question whether or not I should renew my membership that lapsed at the end of the year.
    Thanks for the info.

    I had heard rumors that they were at least a little active in Olympia, but sounds like they aren't ... or at least they are probably ONLY active about proposed legislation that effects gun shows.

    That's the only time I have heard of them in the news in conjunction with Olympia: when they have an ant-gun show law coming up. Self serving.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    amlevin wrote:
    M1Gunr wrote:
    Enough rules there to choke a horse.
    Any member whose attempted purchase of a firearm at a gathering of members is denied by NICS is immediately suspended and must surrender his or her badge forthwith.
    All I can think of is that scene from "Blazing Saddles", "Badges, we don't need no stinking badges.....

    I agree with your assessment of the quantity of rules but your quote source is incorrect. It was from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

    BTW, if the transfer is denied, and it because the attempted purchaser is a felon or ineligible to own a firearm why shouldn't an association of Gun Owner/Collector's be allowed to cancel the membership?
    It was also a scene in Blazing Saddles.
    No, it was from that wierd al movie "UHF", and it was "Badgers, badgers!? We dont need no stinkin badgers!"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKIAn2UlAX4

    :P

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    Mainsail wrote:
    Nope. They refuse to respect my right to carry, I choose not to participate in their show.
    +1

  21. #21
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    CC27 wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    Nope. They refuse to respect my right to carry, I choose not to participate in their show.
    +1
    So their rights end when they conflict with yours? How about your rights ending when they conflict with the rights of someone else?

    Go Ahead, give me all the flack you want. Won't change my opinion ,just like I won't change yours.

    Jim

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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    CC27 wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    Nope. They refuse to respect my right to carry, I choose not to participate in their show.
    +1
    So their rights end when they conflict with yours? How about your rights ending when they conflict with the rights of someone else?

    Go Ahead, give me all the flack you want. Won't change my opinion ,just like I won't change yours.

    Jim
    It's WACs two faced attitude on this subject that's the the problem. Not their right. They claim to be pro-gun and then restrict their members from carrying. They are not pro-gun with that attitude and you are as big a part of the problem as they are with your attitude.




  23. #23
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    CC27 wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    Nope. They refuse to respect my right to carry, I choose not to participate in their show.
    +1
    So their rights end when they conflict with yours? How about your rights ending when they conflict with the rights of someone else?

    Go Ahead, give me all the flack you want. Won't change my opinion ,just like I won't change yours.

    Jim
    AGAIN:

    The WAC shows do not allow me to carry my firearm because of what someone else might do. Apparently there are fools out there that do not know how to properly handle a firearm and thus are a danger to themselves and others. I choose not to participate because I think there is something morally wrong with selling a deadly weapon to a group of people who you believe, and admit, are too incompetent to safely own them.

    If I were selling you a gun from my private collection and you showed up drunk or were displaying characteristics of a person of diminished mental capacity, I would refuse to sell my gun to you. If WAC feels that some of their members are lacking enough intelligence to safely carry/handle/use the very product they intend to supply to them, they are demonstrating a shortsighted hypocrisy that is detrimental to future firearms owners.

    Wrong is wrong.

  24. #24
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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    CC27 wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    Nope. They refuse to respect my right to carry, I choose not to participate in their show.
    +1
    So their rights end when they conflict with yours? How about your rights ending when they conflict with the rights of someone else?

    Go Ahead, give me all the flack you want. Won't change my opinion ,just like I won't change yours.

    Jim
    Jim,

    I am with you./ I've been going to WAC shows for 20plus years. I go to every show, and spend money. In addition to saving tons of money on stuff, I have a great time meeting and talking with some of the most decorated law enforcement and military servicemen I have ever met. I am very very proud to be a WAC member.

    Good day Jim,

    thank you for your sevice.

    Preston


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    Thanks Preston.

    I like to think of this in the light that EVERYONE at the show is an unknown quantity as far as safety is concerned. It is far too easy to get caught up in the moment while talking about firearms and the pride one has in a personal sidearm.

    If I were hosting a get together in my residence with all the neighborhood invited, I would be suspect about most carrying a gun, as I may be acquainted with them, but that does not mean that I "know"them. Therefore, I would request that all come unarmed, and I would dis arm as well.

    In the end it comes down to what you are comfortable in doing.

    All in all this thread has been beaten far too much, by persons on both sides of the fence. Let's agree to disagree and let it go.

    Jim






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