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Thread: McCain visiting Museum in Virginia

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    OC WHAT: Possible OC op in front of McCain

    OC WHEN/WHERE:

    Virginia Campaign Rally, Richmond

    Event What:
    Virginia Campaign Rally, Richmond
    Event When:
    February 11, 2008 5:30 p.m.
    Event Where:
    Richmond International Airport
    5701 Huntsman Road
    Richmond, VA

    John McCain returns to Virginia for a Campaign Rally at the Virginia Aviation Museum on Monday, February 11th at 5:30 p.m. Senator John Warner will introduce John McCain.

    Here is the link to the Virginia Aviation Museum: http://vam.smv.org/default.asp.

    After poking around, I found that they hire through the state, which makes it look like it is State run.

    OC WHY: Lets see how this candidate accepts our rights!



    Does anyone have more information on the Museum and if it is state owned?


    References: http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/...7-a3b5c2da21be

    http://vam.smv.org/default.asp







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    possumboy wrote:
    OC WHY: Lets see how this candidate accepts our rights!




    Probably won't find out how Senator McCain feels but will likely find out that his Secret Service detail will not allow weapons in his presence!!! I'm sure they will say it is not allowed.

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    My thoughts exactly. Whether it may or may not be legal is a far second to the no nonsense attitude of the Secret Service.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    acrimsontide wrote:
    possumboy wrote:
    OC WHY: Lets see how this candidate accepts our rights!




    Probably won't find out how Senator McCain feels but will likely find out that his Secret Service detail will not allow weapons in his presence!!! I'm sure they will say it is not allowed.
    Under what authority?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    acrimsontide wrote:
    possumboy wrote:
    OC WHY: Lets see how this candidate accepts our rights!




    Probably won't find out how Senator McCain feels but will likely find out that his Secret Service detail will not allow weapons in his presence!!! I'm sure they will say it is not allowed.
    Under what authority?
    Thundar, I won't continue to debate this with you. You have your opinion and I have mine. No need for us to continue with this exchange of what will or what should happen. I will address your last question, "under what authority" and then I'm done with this as it could go on forever.

    As to "under what authority" I don't have the legal answer to that question but once someone attends an event such as this with a firearm, we will probably get the answer when we read the formal charges in the media.

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    Virginia Aviation Museum is a Division of the Science Museum of Virginia. The Science Museum of Virginia is an agency of the Commonwealth of Virginia. It is governed according to the applicable portion of the Code of Virginia.

    Additional info: http://www.smv.org/aboutus/governance/







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    The property is state owned and the employees are state employees. The hanger being used in the same hanger used in recent visits by the current POTUS. It is a very secure building and YOU will pass through a metal detector. A POTUS visit supercedes all currents laws, regulations, administrative codes/rules.

    Go ahead and try to get in. It is not worth getting your name on the list. Of course it maymake for a colorful story to your future friends and family. At best you might get as close to one thousand feet. Keep an eye on top of thetower, the guy with the rifle will haveyou in his sights.I'm told they have heat seeking sights.

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    OOPs!
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    possumboy wrote:
    OC WHAT: Possible OC op in front of McCain

    OC WHEN/WHERE:

    Virginia Campaign Rally, Richmond

    Event What:
    Virginia Campaign Rally, Richmond
    Event When:
    February 11, 2008 5:30 p.m.
    Event Where:
    Richmond International Airport
    5701 Huntsman Road
    Richmond, VA

    John McCain returns to Virginia for a Campaign Rally at the Virginia Aviation Museum on Monday, February 11th at 5:30 p.m. Senator John Warner will introduce John McCain.

    Here is the link to the Virginia Aviation Museum: http://vam.smv.org/default.asp.

    After poking around, I found that they hire through the state, which makes it look like it is State run.

    OC WHY: Lets see how this candidate accepts our rights!



    Does anyone have more information on the Museum and if it is state owned?


    References: http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/...7-a3b5c2da21be

    http://vam.smv.org/default.asp





    My daddy told me once that some people may know a lot about the law and what is legal, but have absolutely no common sense when applying it.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    kenny wrote:
    The property is state owned and the employees are state employees. The hanger being used in the same hanger used in recent visits by the current POTUS. It is a very secure building and YOU will pass through a metal detector. A POTUS visit supercedes all currents laws, regulations, administrative codes/rules.

    Go ahead and try to get in. It is not worth getting your name on the list. Of course it maymake for a colorful story to your future friends and family. At best you might get as close to one thousand feet. Keep an eye on top of thetower, the guy with the rifle will haveyou in his sights.I'm told they have heat seeking sights.
    So, if it is "secure" do they prevent people from carrying without a POTUS/Candidate visit? Being stated owned, is there code that prevents someone from legally carrying there? Is there a requirement to carry concealed - is it treated as a state park?

    Also, where is the code that authorizes the removal of all current rights granted by the state?

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    mobeewan wrote:
    My daddy told me once that some people may know a lot about the law and what is legal, but have absolutely no common sense when applying it.
    How does it apply to the question? What is the point of this?

    That "sensible" gun laws are acceptable?

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    I, for one, am thrilled to hear how this will (non)-turn out.

    Frankly, I am extremely interested to know how the Secret Service can create its own law-bubble wherever it goes. The state of Virginia should be free from the excessive regulations imposed by agents of the Federal Government at their whimsy.

    However, I think there are more keen ways to go about finding out the law such as research, asking questions, etc. than a true challenge in this respect.

    I would not be willing to put my life on the line to find out -- just to find an over-diligiant new Secret Service agent looking to make his name in history by offing McCain's "potential assasin" before he can make his move :shock: You know what I mean.

    Totally not worth the hassle regardless of what happens. But hey, Darwin works in mysterious ways so all takers can have it.



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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    I'd bet the visit of a Presidential candidate is considered a "National Security Special Event," which as others have pointed out would trump other local or state laws.

    Agree with it? No.

    But there's only one way to counter things like that. Get about 200 OC guys to show up there and swarm the event. Which would likely cause an evac of the candidate to a safer zone.

    Yall let me know how it turns out. I'll be here at the house.

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    Since the airport has its own government and police force, I suspect the airport exemption will apply. I've never tested it. Whenever I am there my sidearm is always secured in a lockable box enclosed in a suit case. I'm sure it would make for interesting reading if someone would test it.

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    Whether they are technically 'allowed to' or not, the US Secret Service can and will prevent 'ordinary citizens' from bringing weapons into their protection perimeter.

    They have ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE OF HUMOR about this, and it's not a good place to test how far you can push your rights.

    JMHO

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    TheEggman wrote:
    Whether they are technically 'allowed to' or not, the US Secret Service can and will prevent 'ordinary citizens' from bringing weapons into their protection perimeter.

    They have ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE OF HUMOR about this, and it's not a good place to test how far you can push your rights.

    JMHO

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    +10

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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    I seem to remember reading a post somewhere about open carrying to a Ron Paul speach. I can't seem to remember which forum though. The guy was initially hassled by security but then someone higher up let the guy in. He shook hands with RP while OCing. But then again, that was RP and not McCain. If I find the post I will edit for link.

    Edit: Ah here we go

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/7603.html

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    No Secret Service with Ron Paul eh?
    -Unrequited

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    possumboy wrote:
    mobeewan wrote:
    My daddy told me once that some people may know a lot about the law and what is legal, but have absolutely no common sense when applying it.
    How does it apply to the question? What is the point of this?

    That "sensible" gun laws are acceptable?
    The point I was trying to make is that it is not too bright to carry firearms around presidential candidates. The secret service does not find it too cool and you may get your ass shot off. Ever hear of Arthur Bremer or Sirhan Sirhan.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    steveforopen wrote:
    I would not be willing to put my life on the line to find out -- just to find an over-diligiant new Secret Service agent looking to make his name in history by offing McCain's "potential assasin" before he can make his move :shock: You know what I mean.


    Ditto! Especially seeing as how the Secret Service now carries FN 5.7's as their sidearm. Nasty little gun.:shock:

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    steveforopen wrote:
    I would not be willing to put my life on the line to find out -- just to find an over-diligiant new Secret Service agent looking to make his name in history by offing McCain's "potential assasin" before he can make his move :shock: You know what I mean.
    Based on my interaction with secret service agents, I don't think you'd be at much risk of getting shot unless you looked like you were making a move toward your gun.

    They're extremely professional. Smart, very well-trained, and intensely focused when on the job. They know how to prevent threats without escalating to deadly violence, as evidenced by the distinct lack of secret service shootings, beatings, etc.

    They are also very thorough and I guarantee that you wouldn't get in with your weapon. If you weren't actually interested in going to see McCain, but just in finding out how the secret service handles such situations, and in testing to see what they'll do if you exercise your right not to talk to them, it could be educational. AFAIK, they have the right to keep you out of the event area, but not to detain you, disarm you or search you. I'm not sure whether or not they can legally require you to identify yourself.

    In short, if you were to try this, you would only end up testing how good the secret service is at properly observing your legal rights. If they're not very good at it, you may be in for a very unpleasant experience. I suspect they'd handle it well, but that's just a guess.

    If you were enough of an activist to be okay with the risk (for little, if any, gain) then my suggestion would be to first consult your attorney to be sure that you know exactly what your rights are so that you can stay scrupulously within them. Bringing your attorney with you would be a good idea. Also, make sure you have the next few days off work, and some money to pay your lawyer because even if you're completely in the right, things could get a little bit ugly, and I wouldn't be surprised if the judges were very unfriendly to your cause.

    I don't think you'd really be risking life and limb to try this, but you'd be risking a lot of inconvenience, expense and legal hassle.

    Oh, and McCain would probably never even hear about it unless it made the papers, which would probably be very bad.

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    swillden wrote:
    Based on my interaction with secret service agents, I don't think you'd be at much risk of getting shot unless you looked like you were making a move toward your gun.

    They're extremely professional. Smart, very well-trained, and intensely focused when on the job. They know how to prevent threats without escalating to deadly violence, as evidenced by the distinct lack of secret service shootings, beatings, etc.

    They are also very thorough and I guarantee that you wouldn't get in with your weapon. If you weren't actually interested in going to see McCain, but just in finding out how the secret service handles such situations, and in testing to see what they'll do if you exercise your right not to talk to them, it could be educational. AFAIK, they have the right to keep you out of the event area, but not to detain you, disarm you or search you. I'm not sure whether or not they can legally require you to identify yourself.

    In short, if you were to try this, you would only end up testing how good the secret service is at properly observing your legal rights. If they're not very good at it, you may be in for a very unpleasant experience. I suspect they'd handle it well, but that's just a guess.

    If you were enough of an activist to be okay with the risk (for little, if any, gain) then my suggestion would be to first consult your attorney to be sure that you know exactly what your rights are so that you can stay scrupulously within them. Bringing your attorney with you would be a good idea. Also, make sure you have the next few days off work, and some money to pay your lawyer because even if you're completely in the right, things could get a little bit ugly, and I wouldn't be surprised if the judges were very unfriendly to your cause.

    I don't think you'd really be risking life and limb to try this, but you'd be risking a lot of inconvenience, expense and legal hassle.

    Oh, and McCain would probably never even hear about it unless it made the papers, which would probably be very bad.
    Thanks! This is close the the information I was looking for.

    What I really want to find the code that allows them to supercede state laws.

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    possumboy wrote:
    Thanks! This is close the the information I was looking for.

    What I really want to find the code that allows them to supercede state laws.
    I can't find any such code. The relevant law would seem to be Title 18 §1752 and it explicitly states in paragraph (e) that the section does not supersede state law.

    I still wouldn't want to try it, though, and especially not without an attorney at my side.

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    I thought only party nominees (not party candidates runningin primaries) received USSS protection. Him being Senator does not automatically give him the privilege of having USSS protection--only when he becomes the GOP presidential nominee.

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    I may be mistaken, but I thought all senators had a SS bodyguard. I remember reading somewhere that some of the senators/ congressmen insisted that their BG's keep their jackets buttoned. It supposedly made the SS agents angry that they couldn't gain access to their weapons in an expedient manner. (Please, I don't mean SS as in Schutzstaffel. Let's not even go there).

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