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Thread: Clinton comes to Abingdon

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    Regular Member ChadW's Avatar
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    President Clinton is coming to Abingdon today and I may go see him just to say I have seen a real life President. The question is can I carry at the event? It's being held at Virginia Highlands Community College, a state school. Or does the Seceret Service policy trump state law? Maybe I will open carry?

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    ChadW wrote:
    President Clinton is coming to Abingdon today and I may go see him just to say I have seen a real life President. The question is can I carry at the event? It's being held at Virginia Highlands Community College, a state school. Or does the Seceret Service policy trump state law? Maybe I will open carry?
    None of my business, but I'll offer a little advice: For a visit to see the president, or in this case former President, leave the firearm at home. I think leaving it home would prevent some problems for you. In the presence of a POTUS, former or current, I'm sure the Secret Service would not be pleased to see a firearm.



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    Regular Member ChadW's Avatar
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    The question is can they legally do anything? The state of Virginia says we can carry on campus if we are not students.

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    ChadW wrote:
    The question is can they legally do anything? The state of Virginia says we can carry on campus if we are not students.
    I don't know what they can do " legally" in Virginia, but if you carry in the presence of the former President, I'm sure you will be able to tell us later. (I don't intend any sarcasm with my post, just stating that you will likely find out the answer to your question.)

    I would bet that here is likely a Federal statute that covers that situation, but I don't know that for sure. I personally would not take the risk.

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    Plus one! Challenge arguments from authority, "show me the law!" The very best personal attack is citizenship versus (means 'against') petty tyrant wannabes.

    Of course you know that the Schutzstaffel will get extra-legal in a New York senator-second.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    My 2 cents:

    I believe Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 84, § 1752 (Temporary residences and offices of the President others) authorizes the Secret Service to control who enters a facility used by somebody it protects. I doubt you would be welcome, to say the least.

    1) Consequently, the Secret Service could not care less what your state law says. They take their job seriously and will not be amused.

    2) You'd be foolish to attempt to enter with a firearm. Why risk arrest and being put on a list that you really do not want to be on?

    A. Gold

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    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    It never ceases to amaze me what people think they "should do" just to fight the system.

    Obviously, when it comes to protecting the leader of our country, past and present,to be sure he is not harmed for the decisions he made whether good or bad.....

    You are not going to be allowed to get near him with a gun.

    If you cannot figure out why then you have some growing up to do. It does not matter where you are or what you are allowed to do in the state your in.

    I have actuallybeen 10 feet from the president while armed and that is only because I was cleared by the Secret Service first.They tookinto account that I was a cop for many years and when they ran a check on my namethey did not find anything to disclose I was a threat.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C84.txt


    So a violation of the dubious statute must include as an element a violation of (a)

    (2)... intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions... - Political rallies are notgovernment business or officialfunctions
    or
    (3)...willfully and knowingly to obstruct or impede ingress or egress ...
    or
    (4)...willfully and knowingly to engage in any act of physical violence ...

    So how exactly is open carry a violation of this law?

    Also consider thatopen carry is legal in Virginiaand section (e) specifically states that "None of the laws of the United States or of the several States and the District of Columbia shall be superseded by this section. "
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Does anyone truly believe that carrying a weapon into an event with a President or former President is the right thing to do to improve our firearm rights? My opiniion is that it would do nothing to help and much to harm!!

    I have no doubt that if you are seen with a weapon at such an event that you will be detained by the Secret Service protective detail. Of course you could tell them that your are exercising your 2nd amendment rights and that it is legal to OC in Virginia but can you imagine how the media would present that to the public? Not only would the media be biased in their reporting but the public would thinka person carrying a firearm in that situation was a nut case. Hell, I've been carrying a firearm for a little over 40 years and I would question your sanity for carrying in that location.

    There is a need to continue to work to improve our gun rights but there is a time and place for everything. For us to make any progress instead of going backwards, we have to be intelligent enough to know when and where that is.

    At the very least, you will be detained and will find your name on a list that you truly don't want to be on.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    acrimsontide wrote:
    Does anyone truly believe that carrying a weapon into an event with a President or former President is the right thing to do to improve our firearm rights? My opiniion is that it would do nothing to help and much to harm!!

    I have no doubt that if you are seen with a weapon at such an event that you will be detained by the Secret Service protective detail. Of course you could tell them that your are exercising your 2nd amendment rights and that it is legal to OC in Virginia but can you imagine how the media would present that to the public? Not only would the media be biased in their reporting but the public would thinka person carrying a firearm in that situation was a nut case. Hell, I've been carrying a firearm for a little over 40 years and I would question your sanity for carrying in that location.

    There is a need to continue to work to improve our gun rights but there is a time and place for everything. For us to make any progress instead of going backwards, we have to be intelligent enough to know when and where that is.

    At the very least, you will be detained and will find your name on a list that you truly don't want to be on.

    We all know that the secret service certainly does not have a responsibility to protect citizens.

    So when the king comes to town, who is responsible for my protection? Yes the same person who is always responsible, me.

    What you are really saying is that the safety of the subjects is less important than the security of the king.

    Fortunately I live in a land where there is no king and no subject, where all men are created equal.

    The only president, former president or presidential candidate that I care to see understands this. His name is Dr. Ron Paul.


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    acrimsontide wrote:
    Does anyone truly believe that carrying a weapon into an event with a President or former President is the right thing to do to improve our firearm rights? My opiniion is that it would do nothing to help and much to harm!!

    I have no doubt that if you are seen with a weapon at such an event that you will be detained by the Secret Service protective detail. Of course you could tell them that your are exercising your 2nd amendment rights and that it is legal to OC in Virginia but can you imagine how the media would present that to the public? Not only would the media be biased in their reporting but the public would thinka person carrying a firearm in that situation was a nut case. Hell, I've been carrying a firearm for a little over 40 years and I would question your sanity for carrying in that location.

    There is a need to continue to work to improve our gun rights but there is a time and place for everything. For us to make any progress instead of going backwards, we have to be intelligent enough to know when and where that is.

    At the very least, you will be detained and will find your name on a list that you truly don't want to be on.


    What you are really saying is that the safety of the subjects is less important than the security of the king.

    Thundar, That's NOT what I was saying at all. I was only saying thatthe Secret Service will not allow firearms in the presence of a present or former POTUS (or Presidential candidate), and that the media would use such an event to further their anti gun agenda. My personal opinion, and I would think the opinion of most rational gun owners, is that there is a time and place to peacefully work to improve our rights and the presence of a former POTUS is not one of those places.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    ChadW wrote:
    The question is can they legally do anything? The state of Virginia says we can carry on campus if we are not students.
    If a citizen possesses firearms in a place where it is lawful to do so, do we have those amongst us who say it is appropriate for federal agents to violate those rights?


    Many will say no we do not want agents to violate our rights, butwe don't want any threat to our president.

    Those with a lazy intellect,instead of answering Chads question,willquestion the sanity or maturity of someone who even asks the question.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C84.txt


    So a violation of the dubious statute must include as an element a violation of (a)

    (2)... intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions... - Political rallies are notgovernment business or officialfunctions
    or
    (3)...willfully and knowingly to obstruct or impede ingress or egress ...
    or
    (4)...willfully and knowingly to engage in any act of physical violence ...

    So how exactly is open carry a violation of this law?

    Also consider thatopen carry is legal in Virginiaand section (e) specifically states that "None of the laws of the United States or of the several States and the District of Columbia shall be superseded by this section. "
    Open carry isn't a violation, but the law basically authorizes the Secret Service to control who gets in the event. Unauthorized people carrying guns will NOT get in the event. If you want to stand your ground and try to enter with a gun, be my guest. But I don't recommend that anyone try it. Make sure you have your lawyer's card with you.... but I don't think you'll get in with your gun and your lawyer at your side. Nor will your lawyer get in with his gun--- but he or she would probably have the sense not to try.
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Remember John W Booth???

    He was armed when he attended an event with the POTUS too... He exercised his rights... and his opinion... he shot and killed the President.

    Good luck if you think you can get in while armed. You will be wasting your time. Your name will also be added to the list of people that the secret service watches before the POTUS comes to that location again.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    It never ceases to amaze me what people think they "should do" just to fight the system.
    The guy asked a simple f'ing question and you accuse him of wanting to "fight the system". Stop starting flamewars. Either answer the question by citing a law or don't.

    Exactly one poster in this thread has attempted to cite a law. The rest of you are jumping on the guy for no real reason, calling him names and accusing him of being immature for wanting to know if he can carry in a particular public place or not.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    It never ceases to amaze me what people think they "should do" just to fight the system.

    Obviously, when it comes to protecting the leader of our country, past and present,to be sure he is not harmed for the decisions he made whether good or bad.....

    You are not going to be allowed to get near him with a gun.

    If you cannot figure out why then you have some growing up to do. It does not matter where you are or what you are allowed to do in the state your in.

    I have actuallybeen 10 feet from the president while armed and that is only because I was cleared by the Secret Service first.They tookinto account that I was a cop for many years and when they ran a check on my namethey did not find anything to disclose I was a threat.
    Not "just to fight the system".

    IMNSHO, the OP has posted a reasonable question. He has asked what the LAW is regarding his attendance. If you can cite US Code (as one person did), do so. Then congratulate the OP for a desire to LEARN THE LAW before taking matters into his hands.

    Congratulate him for being willing to do what's right. To learn the law before he does something that may get him arrested.

    Obviously he knows there is no LAW in Virginia against carrying, open or concealed, on a college campus. He is aware there MAY be federal restrictions due to the presence of a past chief executive.

    If he learns the law, and the law says he MAY carry, and he chooses to carry, I congratulate him for standing up for his beliefs. If he learns the law says he may not carry, and he does anyway, THEN you rail.

    Give the man a chance.

    ChadW - I applaud you.

    OF course, it's all moot now since the event is over.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Regular Member ChadW's Avatar
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    I did not get to attend by the time I got to the road leading to the shcool the traffic was so backed up I just went back home. And for the person who said I should know why an armed person should not be allowed near a former President, I ask why is his life worth more than mine or yours? All men have the right to self-protection, wether they be great ro small.

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    Bill Clinton is coming to George Mason University, in Fairfax.

    It's in the Johnson Center atrium from 9-11pm

    I'll probably attend just so I can say I saw the man who signed the '94 AWB


    Though after I turn in my last assignment for the day around 5:30 I'm going to try to make a trip to the gun shop to get a couple speed loaders and hogue grips for the S&W I just got over the weekend

    Hopefully I'll find some parking when I come back though I'll bet it'll be PACKED because Mason's parking SUCKS!!!!


    EDIT: Made it to the gunshop and got a speedloader and Hogue monogrip for the S&W, and I'm back now so I can go see Clinton.

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