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One or the other??

B

beradcee

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
160
Location
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
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Just a curiousity, is there anything on the books as far as what i'll call "sloppy oc"? Sometimes, mostly around my neighborhood, I'll pull my shirt over my sidearm as our lease says no firearms in the trailer park. IMO if you look any more than just a passing glance, you'll notice it no problem. But I think it's also enough that the sheeple around here shouldn't notice. My wife got the idea from somewhere that you must be clearly one or the other, OC or CC.Any input??
 
A

apocryph

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Feb 27, 2007
Messages
75
Location
Undisclosed Location, Virginia, USA
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IANAL, but my interpretation of the statute is that a shirt over your gun constitutues CCW, and thus would require a permit.

The precise language is at http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308:


§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry. A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.
Click to expand...

To my mind, if the "sheeple" don't notice it because your shirt covers it, it's hidden from common observation.

There's nothing in the statute that says you have to be outrageously obviously open-carrying or undetectablely CCW, but if you're skirting the bounaries between the two, you'd do well to have a permit lest your friendly neighborhood LEO disagree with your interpretation fo the statute.
 
A

apocryph

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Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
75
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Undisclosed Location, Virginia, USA
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Thundar wrote:
beradcee wrote:
...our lease says no firearms in the trailer park...
Click to expand...
Is the landlord permitted to forbid firearms on the premises in Virginia?
Click to expand...

I thought that sounded fishy too. I looked it up, and unless I'm missing something, landlords cannot prohibit lawful firearms possession:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+coh+55-248.9+500258

§ 55-248.9. Prohibited provisions in rental agreements.

A. A rental agreement shall not contain provisions that the tenant:

1. Agrees to waive or forego rights or remedies under this chapter;

2. Agrees to waive or forego rights or remedies pertaining to the 120-day conversion or rehabilitation notice required in the Condominium Act (§ 55-79.39 et seq.), the Virginia Real Estate Cooperative Act (§ 55-424 et seq.) or Chapter 13 (§ 55-217 et seq.) of this title;

3. Authorizes any person to confess judgment on a claim arising out of the rental agreement;

4. Agrees to pay the landlord's attorney's fees except as provided in this chapter;

5. Agrees to the exculpation or limitation of any liability of the landlord to the tenant arising under law or to indemnify the landlord for that liability or the costs connected therewith;

6. Agrees as a condition of tenancy in public housing to a prohibition or restriction of any lawful possession of a firearm within individual dwelling units unless required by federal law or regulation; or

7. Agrees to both the payment of a security deposit and the provision of a bond or commercial insurance policy purchased by the tenant to secure the performance of the terms and conditions of a rental agreement, if the total of the security deposit and the bond or insurance premium exceeds the amount of two months' periodic rent.

B. A provision prohibited by subsection A included in a rental agreement is unenforceable. If a landlord brings an action to enforce any of the prohibited provisions, the tenant may recover actual damages sustained by him and reasonable attorney's fees.
Click to expand...

That said, if the trailer park management is hostile to firearms ownership, there's no reason to provoke them by open-carrying. Even if the terms of the lease are unenforceable, that's not to say they won't find some way fine you for your pink flamingo lawn ornament or whatever.
 
L

LEO 229

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Joined
Feb 21, 2007
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7,606
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USA
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Thundar wrote:
beradcee wrote:
...our lease says no firearms in the trailer park...
Click to expand...
Is the landlord permitted to forbid firearms on the premises in Virginia?
Click to expand...
In the trailer park is different than in your trailer home.

The law identifies that a landlord cannot forbid you from having a gun in the home you rent. However... you are not entitled to walk the property with that same gun.

We have talked about this at length in another thread.
 
S

stryth

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
68
Location
, ,
imported post

LEO 229 wrote:
Thundar wrote:
beradcee wrote:
...our lease says no firearms in the trailer park...
Click to expand...
Is the landlord permitted to forbid firearms on the premises in Virginia?
Click to expand...
In the trailer park is different than in your trailer home.

The law identifies that a landlord cannot forbid you from having a gun in the home you rent. However... you are not entitled to walk the property with that same gun.

We have talked about this at length in another thread.
Click to expand...
And what a thread, too. I realized something later - Public housing is what that statute specifies. I haven't come across any other references, so the lease agreement may be binding, but IANAL.
 
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